New Star Venture

[snyper316]

You aint gone crazy yet, but you are close 😁

 

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I like to think we are all crazy. After all its the normal people we don't know...

 

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[Skeeter]

I love it! I've had the Gen 1 (1983) and Gen 2 (1999). I currently ride an Electra Glide Ultra Classic and I'm thinking about going back to a Venture with the Gen 3. I'm diggin' the 113ci V twin. Take it from someone who made a good living in design, styling it subjective. You're never going to get everyone to agree on a design. In my opinion, they nailed it. I think this bike is beautiful. The front reminds me of my 71 Ford Torino. I always liked the frame mounted fairing on my Gen 1 and the Harley Road Glide.

 

The fuel economy is disappointing. I get 48 on my Ultra.

 

Skeeter

[CaseyJ955]

I love it! I've had the Gen 1 (1983) and Gen 2 (1999). I currently ride an Electra Glide Ultra Classic and I'm thinking about going back to a Venture with the Gen 3. I'm diggin' the 113ci V twin. Take it from someone who made a good living in design, styling it subjective. You're never going to get everyone to agree on a design. In my opinion, they nailed it. I think this bike is beautiful. The front reminds me of my 71 Ford Torino. I always liked the frame mounted fairing on my Gen 1 and the Harley Road Glide.

 

The fuel economy is disappointing. I get 48 on my Ultra.

 

Skeeter

 

I had a 70 GT, the 70-71 were my favorite years. Now that you mention it I see it too. I saw the brow that was reminiscent of BMW cars. I've made peace with the appearance of the gen3 but the spec sheet is going to be a deal breaker for me. At that weight Ill bet it rides nice.

 

Here is a design question I would like to ask. Why put 16 valves in an engine with a sub-5k red line? They must be fairly small valves. I understand that one of the main perks to a 16v vs 8v is it breathes freer up high and 8v was a little easier to get low end grunt with. I assume that the extra two valves improve charge or somehow work to change how the charge enters the combustion chamber. Maybe they are angled to give the charge a twist or something? I do see less and less 8v mills out there, especially on bikes.

[cowpuc]

I love it! I've had the Gen 1 (1983) and Gen 2 (1999). I currently ride an Electra Glide Ultra Classic and I'm thinking about going back to a Venture with the Gen 3. I'm diggin' the 113ci V twin. Take it from someone who made a good living in design, styling it subjective. You're never going to get everyone to agree on a design. In my opinion, they nailed it. I think this bike is beautiful. The front reminds me of my 71 Ford Torino. I always liked the frame mounted fairing on my Gen 1 and the Harley Road Glide.

 

The fuel economy is disappointing. I get 48 on my Ultra.

 

Skeeter

 

We should all get together and meet somewhere for a test ride demo day!! I would LOVE that!! Understanding that probably could never happen - if you do end up with one Skeeter = PLEASE get on here with an full out comparing all Gens!!

Oh,, with pics,, gotta have pics

 

 

 

I had a 70 GT, the 70-71 were my favorite years. Now that you mention it I see it too. I saw the brow that was reminiscent of BMW cars. I've made peace with the appearance of the gen3 but the spec sheet is going to be a deal breaker for me. At that weight Ill bet it rides nice.

 

Here is a design question I would like to ask. Why put 16 valves in an engine with a sub-5k red line? They must be fairly small valves. I understand that one of the main perks to a 16v vs 8v is it breathes freer up high and 8v was a little easier to get low end grunt with. I assume that the extra two valves improve charge or somehow work to change how the charge enters the combustion chamber. Maybe they are angled to give the charge a twist or something? I do see less and less 8v mills out there, especially on bikes.

 

Performance isnt the only plus to using more valves,,, spring pressure on the cam(s) from running large valves is also reduced = less pressure = less friction = less wear on cams,bearings,lifters,rockers and noise issues IMHO.. Also needed lift and duration grinds are dramatically reduced in multi valve designs because you have more surface area opening.. Was looking at the valve design on my R1 last night (reading the shop manual) - its a true 5 valve motor = 3 in, 2 out and it leaves very little in the way of head surface area that is not being used as porting..

Another something that, IMHO, is also overlooked in all this are some of the hidden pluses of multi cylinder engine = using more holes = being able to use smaller holes = keeping the pistons smaller = piston weight = less self destruct when the R's raise..

Man I wish we were all sitting around a camp fire right now,, cooking hot dogs - toastin martian mellers and talkin scoots...

[cowpuc]

You aint gone crazy yet, but you are close 😁

 

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SHEESH,, took ya long enough,, I almost headed to the shrink,,,,,,,, thanks brother!!!!!!

Heyyyy,,got my beat up ol Luger Ruger .22 out,, cleaned,, polished and fired a few rounds = still works:hurts:.. Next Hot Dog outing in the north woods sometime this summer gonna grab some balloons and tacks - have a shoot to win a Hot Dog contest

If you happen to make one of our Hot Dog extravaganza's even if its not a shoot to win one - any chance ya might still have that new Flag ya offered me last year?? Should of just let ya swapped it out then Raggy but I messed up = the one you stuck on er at the rally at your place is finally completed her job - be HONORED to move up to the new sacred Old Glory if you happen to still have it and send this next one back with you for its proper disposal ... Even more than happy to pay for your services my friend!!!

[Drews]

COWPUC it was BUCKSHOT

[ragtop69gs]

SHEESH,, took ya long enough,, I almost headed to the shrink,,,,,,,, thanks brother!!!!!!

Heyyyy,,got my beat up ol Luger Ruger .22 out,, cleaned,, polished and fired a few rounds = still works:hurts:.. Next Hot Dog outing in the north woods sometime this summer gonna grab some balloons and tacks - have a shoot to win a Hot Dog contest

If you happen to make one of our Hot Dog extravaganza's even if its not a shoot to win one - any chance ya might still have that new Flag ya offered me last year?? Should of just let ya swapped it out then Raggy but I messed up = the one you stuck on er at the rally at your place is finally completed her job - be HONORED to move up to the new sacred Old Glory if you happen to still have it and send this next one back with you for its proper disposal ... Even more than happy to pay for your services my friend!!!

 

Shootin for weenies! I'm game for that! .22 only?

 

I do still have old glory, it's still in my pannier waiting for you. I look forward to our next M,GnE,M

[bongobobny]

Yup, it was Gil you speak of! His tuxedo Venture sure is a beut!

 

I agree with Jay, we want bigger caliper...

[BlueSky]

Yep, the reduced mass of a multi-valve engine valve train allows it to rev more freely as was pointed out earlier on the valve springs not having to be as strong.

The old man Honda who started the Honda company didn't like 2 stroke bikes and he competed against 2 stroke dirt bikes with his mult-valve 4 strokes that could rev to 22,000 rpm!!! This was in the 50's I think. So Honda knows how to build high revving engines!

[Flyinfool]

Bigger caliber? So I should bring my hand howitzer? (If it aint sold by then.........)

Or should I just bring my 22 Ruger MKII with the 10" bull barrel.

[CaseyJ955]

Yep, the reduced mass of a multi-valve engine valve train allows it to rev more freely as was pointed out earlier on the valve springs not having to be as strong.

The old man Honda who started the Honda company didn't like 2 stroke bikes and he competed against 2 stroke dirt bikes with his mult-valve 4 strokes that could rev to 22,000 rpm!!! This was in the 50's I think. So Honda knows how to build high revving engines!

 

Not to one-up, but my watercooled Venture can rev to around 23,000, so yea... there ya go

 

I love the early small cal Hondas that can rev like Formula 1 cars, I saw one on a race circuit once. It's beyond *****en' Valve spring strength makes sense and probably port design being narrow enough to keep charge velocity high as it enters the chamber. I think this threw me, it's the first time I saw more than 2 valves/cyl on a vehicle with such a lethargic red line. I remember Yamaha Genesis 5 valve design, pretty cool and as I recall very effective.

 

So now that we know what the engine is do we really know why it's so limited in the revs? Maybe head design to get the torque, maybe it would be to many powerstrokes for the air cooling to be adequate. I am fascinated to say the least.

[RandyR]

Yamaha designed heads for other companies at one time. Toyota being the most well known.

[XV1100SE]

Has anyone talked to a dealer about what they know about the bike? Or were reps asked at Americade about how they handle the summer heat?

 

I would still have preferred the liquid cooled V4 and shaft drive...if I get the opportunity I'd take one for a spin...but with what I have invested in my 2nd Gen (chrome and add-ons) and that the motor is just broken in at 85,000 km (53,000 miles) with years of life in it...financially it wouldn't make sense for me to get a new Gen 3.

 

As time goes by I'm softening to V-twin motor but still have questions on it such as lifecycle (what mileage would be expected out of it) and the heat from the motor. Neither of these questions are issues with the V4.

[Flyinfool]

I was thinking along the same lines as far as heat is concerned, I was wondering if the September release date had anything to do with being at the end of riding season and after the worst of summer is over so that they can get 6-9 months of sales in before real summer heat is experienced by anyone.

[steamer]

Has anyone talked to a dealer about what they know about the bike? Or were reps asked at Americade about how they handle the summer heat?

 

I would still have preferred the liquid cooled V4 and shaft drive...if I get the opportunity I'd take one for a spin...but with what I have invested in my 2nd Gen (chrome and add-ons) and that the motor is just broken in at 85,000 km (53,000 miles) with years of life in it...financially it wouldn't make sense for me to get a new Gen 3

As time goes by I'm softening to V-twin motor but still have questions on it such as lifecycle (what mileage would be expected out of it) and the heat from the motor. Neither of these questions are issues with the V4.

 

The rep I talked to said the vent system is designed to direct max amount of air around the engine for max cooling at cruising speed. the vent system is also designed to vent that heat away from the riders. The rider can control the system to direct the heat to the rides in cool/cold riding conditions and away form them in hot conditions. They also said they did extensive heat testing and the results are no more heat on the riders then a liquid cooled bike. Only test rides and time will tell.

[steamer]

I was thinking along the same lines as far as heat is concerned, I was wondering if the September release date had anything to do with being at the end of riding season and after the worst of summer is over so that they can get 6-9 months of sales in before real summer heat is experienced by anyone.

 

I don't think any company that wants to make $$$ would do something that dumb. They are in it for the long run, so they better have one hell of a bike or take a bill loss.

[snyper316]

I don't think any company that wants to make $$$ would do something that dumb. They are in it for the long run, so they better have one hell of a bike or take a bill loss.

I don't know where you live but September is usually the hottest month around here. So I'm sure anybody going for a ride on one then should be able to tell if its gonna do well with heat.

 

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[BlueSky]

Not to one-up, but my watercooled Venture can rev to around 23,000, so yea... there ya go

 

I love the early small cal Hondas that can rev like Formula 1 cars, I saw one on a race circuit once. It's beyond *****en' Valve spring strength makes sense and probably port design being narrow enough to keep charge velocity high as it enters the chamber. I think this threw me, it's the first time I saw more than 2 valves/cyl on a vehicle with such a lethargic red line. I remember Yamaha Genesis 5 valve design, pretty cool and as I recall very effective.

 

So now that we know what the engine is do we really know why it's so limited in the revs? Maybe head design to get the torque, maybe it would be to many powerstrokes for the air cooling to be adequate. I am fascinated to say the least.

 

I was posting from my memory of reading an article many years ago about the 22,000 rpm Honda. So, I did a search and found this article about one of the 22k rpm Hondas.

 

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2013/02/article/memorable-motorcycle-honda-rc148/

 

Low angle V-twins are one of the worst designs as far as dynamic balancing. I think that is one factor in the rpm limit. And if you cam an engine for low rpm torque it usually doesn't have a lot of high rpm hp. Yamaha chose a cruiser engine for a cruising bike. If we want a performance oriented bagger, we'll have to buy a Goldwing or BMW. I think Yamaha could have put a large 4 cylinder engine in the bike and by slanting it forward could lower the center of gravity like BMW did with the K1600 GTL. But that ain't the market they are after. Oh by the way, a straight 6 is the best dynamically balanced engine.

Edited June 15, 2017 by BlueSky

[XV1100SE]

The rep I talked to said the vent system is designed to direct max amount of air around the engine for max cooling at cruising speed. the vent system is also designed to vent that heat away from the riders. The rider can control the system to direct the heat to the rides in cool/cold riding conditions and away form them in hot conditions. They also said they did extensive heat testing and the results are no more heat on the riders then a liquid cooled bike. Only test rides and time will tell.

 

 

I don't think the problem is very large while moving...what about at a standstill ? If you are in 90+ temperatures and stuck in stop and go traffic (worst case situation)....there won't be air movement. Air cooled motors are cooled by air movement. No air movement, the engine heats up. How effective will the oil cooling be ?

[Du-Rron]

Here is something interesting...

 

http://www.cycleworld.com/cooling-the-authentic-way-kevin-cameron-top-dead-center

[rickardracing]

I don't think the problem is very large while moving...what about at a standstill ? If you are in 90+ temperatures and stuck in stop and go traffic (worst case situation)....there won't be air movement. Air cooled motors are cooled by air movement. No air movement, the engine heats up. How effective will the oil cooling be ?

 

 

 

Ask any Harley owner. I have about 800 miles of seat time on rented Harleys. I rented one in South Dakota and rode to Mt. Rushmore and surrounding areas putting over almost 300 miles on it that day. It was in the mid 90's....I got stuck in some nasty traffic in Rapid City.....sat in one spot for almost 30 minutes with the bike running. It was hot, but not unbearable. All of you guys are blowing this air cooled thing WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of proportion.

[BlueSky]

Ask any Harley owner. I have about 800 miles of seat time on rented Harleys. I rented one in South Dakota and rode to Mt. Rushmore and surrounding areas putting over almost 300 miles on it that day. It was in the mid 90's....I got stuck in some nasty traffic in Rapid City.....sat in one spot for almost 30 minutes with the bike running. It was hot, but not unbearable. All of you guys are blowing this air cooled thing WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of proportion.

 

What I'm concerned about is the oil temperature. I don't think the typical air cooled bike engine will last 250k miles like a water cooled. As someone else pointed out when it is sitting in traffic the oil cooler doesn't help much either unless they put a fan on it.

[SilvrT]

What I'm concerned about is the oil temperature. I don't think the typical air cooled bike engine will last 250k miles like a water cooled. As someone else pointed out when it is sitting in traffic the oil cooler doesn't help much either unless they put a fan on it.

 

I guess those engineers of bike engines that are air cooled and use oil coolers just figured sticking an oil cooler on a bike makes it look cool ...

 

Ya, and those fins that are meant to disperse heat are nothing more than decorative extras ....

 

Oh, and how many of you are really gonna ride that many miles on your scoot? Crikey mate ... I wouldn't even put that many miles on my car!

 

And how many of you would buy a bike, any bike, that has over 200,000 miles on it and the engine has never been touched and expect to go riding off into the sunset worry free?

 

(just sayin yanno)

 

[SilvrT]

All of you guys are blowing this air cooled thing WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of proportion.

 

:sign yeah that:

[Sailor]

In my opinion Yamaha has blown it. The 6 cyl, water cooled Gold wing is lighter and more powerful. What Yamaha seems to have come up with is a heavier gold wing with a Harley engine. Not for me.