cowpuc

@Yama Mama!!!! Yeeee hawww!!! I know just how you feel Peggy! I had to make that decision numerous times thru the years. 1st it was to stop competing on the MX tracks, then it was no more dirt bikes at all, then it was no more touring. TIP and I moved on to E-Bikes as our main 2 wheel excurtions and I have no doubt that will have its limits too. It's hard as heck to make those decisions and it's different for everyone how they want to proceed. Personally I am proud of you for facing the feelings of its time. Makes no difference though concerning our lasting friendship. We ALWAYS have each other! Tell your first husband HI for us!! Puc, TIP and Tweeks!

Don's recent thread about Yamaha's future in touring bikes and ,indeed, the very future of large touring bikes got me to thinking. I still cant help but imagine hybrid GAS/ELECTRIC being the future. After having put a fair amount of riding on our E-Bikes I truly do think if Mom Yam would come out with a Hybrid Touring Bike that would get a consistent +100 mpg and not have to stop for recharging like a full electric vehicle has to that the youth of today would support it in sales. What do you think? As it stands right now, I think the large touring bike days are dim. I hope not cause those were some great years.

There was time not to many years ago the club would a had a lot of fun with this one Earl LOL..

Try this Vulc.. @skydoc_17, maybe Earl doesnt know your looking for him...

I still have my daughters 1968 CT-90 sitting in the basement. I cant count the number of deer I dragged out of the woods with that thing. Low range in 1st gear = unstoppable! Sometimes even 2 deer at once!! AMAZING MACHINES for sure!! Love this thread!!

Fact is we, our "club", was in the minority and had a very small footprint in the touring world (other touring riders had no idea what they were missing, our V-4's ROCK/ROCKED!) and the Yam V-Twin lovers in the STAR RIDERS side of Yamaha had a bigger voice in the matter. The V-TWIN Yam's were (and still are) an excellent machine and had a nice variety of air cooled V-Twins for wayyy less $$$ than HD to get people riding. Personally I LOVED the Strats n Raider. I also LOVED the smaller air cooled Yam V-Twins and worked on many of them. They were great bikes! I spent a TON of time on my nephews Strat and was always impressed. I could have bought a brand new one CHEAP (about 1/3 the price of a comparable HD) but knew it would sit in the garage and wait for me/us to take time away from our 83 Venture touring to ride it so I passed. I do understand the STAR RIDERS push for an air cooled, big bore touring bike. I highly doubt though (and my doubts are proven because very few them bought the big twin Venture they asked for) they understood what they were asking for and really didn't understand the grip HD has on the BIG TWIN touring market. If they, and Mom Yam, would have did a little more research into the matter I am 100% sure we would ALL be riding 1700cc V-Max motored, shaft driven, water cooled new Ventures and I would have the fastest one LOL. I love the looks of the new one and still see the missed opportunity Mom Yam made by not stuffing a detuned 160 hp V-Max motor in exactly the body that they came up with. Those fake intakes just scream BAD TO THE BONE and ready to be the real deal intakes. I timed out of the touring bikes long ago now but if we were still riding I would be looking at, and probably own one of the new Wings. That's a lot closer to what I was picturing as the touring bike that would "turn the touring world upside down" that Mom Yam was telling us was comingi and the very reason I went to the unveiling ready to buy in the first place, minus a bunch of HP of course.

I seriously think Mom Yam just listened to the wrong group of Yamaha riders in her attempt to "turn the touring world upside down" (her words, not mine). After speaking to the "STAR RIDERS" at Americade who Mom Yam did take advice from it was easy to see that, from day one of design, they had no interest in the V-4 V-Max upgrade idea's that we all were convinced was coming. I also believe that the shear size of the Air Cooled, Belt Drive, V-Twin American riders far outnumbered our group so considerably thats the direction Mom Yam went. Years ago, before Mom Yam revealed her failed attempt at producing a new Venture that would "set a new benchmark for all touring bikes in performance, handling and comfort" @Freebird started a thread called "let the discussion begin" here on VR. Many many of our club members responded and most of the club echoed the same "wish list". I am going to post here my response in that thread only because I still stand by it. I, like most here, followed the new Venture from start to finish and I even chased it to the unveiling at Lake George with MUCH excitement. Tweeks, TIP and I went out to Lake George for the unveiling with cash in hand and ready to buy/order that new 1700cc 175 hp shaft drive machine that I was SURE Mom Yam would be unveiling. I know for fact there were others on site that day at the unveiling with the same hope/dreams and intent, I spoke to many of them. @videoarizona was actually on the phone with me (or texting, cant remember) and clearly heard my response as soon as they started the 1st bike (they had two) hidden behind the curtain and I heard the familiar sound of ANOTHER FREEKING HD CLONE V-TWIN. I think my response was something like "ohhh crap". Like many others there, I had no interest in buying one after that. What a shame,, I am 100% certain that had Mom Yam actually completed her promises stated above there would be one in my garage right now as well as MANY others here. At the unveiling I actually heard Mom Yam's competition LAUGH and watched them walk away saying "no competition here thats for sure". I know for a fact that at least 4 of those people who said that were Honda Reps. I was so disheartened,, embarrassed, I had NO INTEREST in even test riding one then BUT, after a few months of reading promotional's, Tweeks/TIP and I did cave in and went to Sturgis that year for test riding and to ask questions concerning some other promises Mom Yam made about the bike. I took my infra red temp gauge and video camera along with a list of questions from fellow club members and we headed out on Tweeks. At Sturgis I asked the Yam Factory Reps about the question of air cooled V-Twins being HOT and how Yam solved that issue as I could not see any indication of such on the exterior of the bike. I also asked permission to take some temp readings.. They refused to allow me to take ANY temp readings on the Demo bikes and simply said YAMAHA FIGURED OUT THE SECRET TO SOLVING THE HEAT ISSUE WITH AIR COOLED V-TWINS. From that point on I was told to write Yamaha for any more answers to the questions both the club members and I had. While I still 100% believe the new venture could have been a REAL DEAL trend setter and could have been a real boost for Mom Yam and our sport and they would have sold like Hot Cakes had they of just listened to the faithful Venture riders of which I am one, I am still not quite sure what happened to the (supposedly) huge backing from the V-STAR RIDERS I met at Lake George who stood on the stage there and claimed they had designed the bike. It does not appear that even that group took a liking to the new bike. When they rode the bike up onto the platform at Lake George my first response to Tippy was "I SEE POLARIS VICTORY WRITTEN ALL OVER THAT THING! I WONDER IF ARLEN NESS LEFT POLARIS AND HAD HIS HAND IN THE DESIGN". Strangely enough, it seems the Polaris Victory riders ended up being the main supporter of the new Venture from what I see but even they didnt have the numbers needed to keep the steed in production. Fact is, IMHO, chasing Harley Davidson is/was NEVER a good plan. HD riders are in love with HD,, the sound, the vibes, the ride, the clothes, the QUALITY in both paint and looks.. I have owned and ridden MANY Harleys and LOVED em all so I get it BUT,, its wayyy to late in the game to even think about challenging HD, thats not possible. Their piece of the pie is theirs alone, they somehow survived the ages and have EARNED respect and honor in the Industry for doing so. Mom Yam should have forgot about chasing HD and focused on fulfilling her promises leading up to the unveiling,, I am still very very sad that she didn't. Here is that "wish list"/response to Freebirds thread entitled "let the discussion begin",,, I still wish it!! LOL: """"""I have been a Yamaha enthusiast for many many years and they have proven to me over and over again that they are TOPS!! Owned a couple early YZ monoshock MX bikes way back and they were AWESOME!! My little RD350 and RD250 (remains still in my basement) were giant killers - proving Yamaha's superiority in R&D!! My 73 XS650 beat across the country with me on its back several times, chopped it and rode it many more miles until sold. Bought a brand new 650 Special, AWESOME "cloned" mini Harley that saw the west too!! My faith in mother Yamaha has been proven 5 times over by my continual riding of the 1st Gen Ventures starting in 1987 until present day with my 83 that has almost 300k on it!! Fact is, folks at Yamaha, I AM READY FOR THE NEXT PHASE!! All that said, here is my feeble wish list: 1700cc V-4 "V-Max" motor.. Detune it if you must (just like before) but please,, dont do another V-Twin - got enough of em.. You guys can do it,, I KNOW YOU CAN!! Shaft drive! EFI with a tunable tuner - even if its an add on - please provide one so we can tune it!! LED lighting. Engine guarding and saddle bag guarding. Adjustable bars like on the first gen. Factory tank and windshield bags. Fixed Fairing. Get the same Doctors who advised you on constructing the seat of the 1st Gens (cant remember what you call those guys) to advise you on this one - my kids, wife and I LOVE what they did!! Keep the seat height difference between the rider and passenger no more than 3 inches (2 is great) - raising the passenger higher causes weight imbalance and makes slow speed riding harder. Ease of removal of the trunk(s) for changing rear tire. Center stand. Forward boards with normal foot pegs located rearward so standing up while riding is still possible, shift and brake levers at both locations (no heal toe please). Hand warmers. Key removable rear trunk and bags. Grease zerks on all main pivot points. High output stator even though it has LED's. Double check the gear sets in the tranny and make sure they ramp up solidly. Oversized clutch to insure NO slippage in high gears with xtra weight. 42 millimeter front fork tubes with progressive springs. Imbed reflective tape (or use reflective paint) in paint lines (like pin striping) so all profiles of bike light up when grazed by car lights. Add a large foot onto side stand - tired of bending over to pick up stand plate after parking on loose ground. Explore which tire sizes are the most common and build around those standards so tire choices and finding them are easy. Remember those long grips you used on the first gens? Use those, I love bending them back onto my knees. Enclose the motor well to keep ANY objectional heat off both riders BUT - use lots of venting with plenums to act as heaters when needed. Windshield it so the rear rider remains in the protective air pocket - functional vents in shield and fairing to adjust air movement if needed (hey,, could be asking for servo operated shield but I dont care for more things to go wrong). 6 speed Over drive tranny. Use GOOD solder, especially with ECU pins. QC the daylights out of it! DONT go cheap and trust the Chinese!! Dont short us on wire harness leads so wiring is tight - xtra 1/4 inch really helps!! Make fairing panels easy to remove but not so they fall off. Supply printable shop manual disc and printed well written owners manual. Supply GOOD factory tire pressure guage. Chrome is out for me, I LOVE dull stainless (like the pipes on the "New" V-Max),, matter of fact,, build mine with no rustable chrome and all dull stainless!! Intercom, CB and radio would be nice.. Keep the tape deck. OK, if you REALLY are reading this and you like what I am talking,, PLEASE make mine just a little faster in stock form than anyone elses.. Not that I would ever use the extra pazzaazz but I have buddies that I gotta compete with and just KNOWING I have the fastest one would be worth an extra grand to me:big-grin-emoticon: I KNOW you can do it!! Keep the faith mother Yamaha - I AM!! Puc"""""

Bubba I built quite a few Chops over the years and loved em all. That particular bike made numerous cross country trips with me onboard and I gotta say,, it was actually one of most comfortable touring bikes I ever owned. Mainly because I used a "Soft Ride" 1969 Santee frame to start with, I just needed to rake the neck a few more degree's to get the trail correct for its 16 over springer. That combo proved VERY comfortable for long distance cruising. It made for AWESOME trips to the Sturgis Rally as well as a real fun local rally scoot. The springer combined with the rear shocks made for the softest ride I ever had. The chopped long bikes are very decieving in their rideability. Now hardtails, which I also built numerous of,, not so much.. Talk about spine wreckers LOL.. I LOVE CHOPPERS and miss the late 60's n early 70's chopper days.. It was amazing how much stuff there was out there to build with back then.

That Heritage Springer has always been right at the top of my list too my brother. Personally I prefer the earlier ones,, thinking 98ish when they had the grates front and back and were still putting the Evo's in them. They also had decorative seating and bags with reflectors on em but INDEED,, our minds think a LOT alike @Freebird. The very top of list are two that I did have the pleasure of owning, one of which I had to build to aquire.. Its between Olivia, my 42 HD and one of the chops that I built to my liking... Talk about a tuff choice here. I think I am going to have to break the Club rules once again and call it a tie.. LOL

I succumbed to the dark side a longggg time ago and agree,, more carbs! They like me better. I do prefer mine to be non-CV though. I get better performance out of those..

Hand impacts with a real good tight fitting impact grade, 6 point socket work best for this. Also try retighening the bolt that you have broken loose to take some pressure off if you have two bolts pinching the same location. I have also used the ol hitting the bolt side at an angle with a punch to break it loose very effective. I have even used that method very successfully on the smallest of screws. Especially when I have a steel bolt/screw threaded into aluminum.

WOWZY WOW WOW WOW!! Good score Corporal Newkirk!! Ya done got blessed,, again!!!!

Mom Yam did read my list and followed it pretty well.. She just did the opposite of what I, and many other members suggested LOL.. check this out: 1700cc V-4 "V-Max" motor.. Detune it if you must (just like before) but please,, dont do another V-Twin - got enough of em.. You guys can do it,, I KNOW YOU CAN!! but everyone knows the modern rider wants the pleasure of no hp, good vibes and feeling the burn as they ride.. get with it man! Shaft drive! BELT's wear out and we can make a few bucks for replacements, we are in the business to make money on part sales.. EFI with a tunable tuner - even if its an add on - please provide one so we can tune it!! no chance Engine guarding. but then the rider who LOVES heat couldn't get it what he loves. Adjustable bars like on the first gen. no no no,, those adjustable bars on the MK1/2's were a big mistake. we actually lost money on the loss of handle bar sales for that mistake. Fixed Fairing. here ya go Puc,, just for you!! THAT IS ONE COOL FRONT END FOLKS!! Imagine those intakes on the front feeding a 175 hp COMPETITION DESTROYER!! good night that woulda been AWESOME! Get the same Doctors who advised you on constructing the seat of the 1st Gens (cant remember what you call those guys) to advise you on this one - my kids, wife and I LOVE what they did!! Keep the seat height difference between the rider and passenger no more than 3 inches (2 is great) - raising the passenger higher causes weight imbalance and makes slow speed riding harder. how bout we make this one a 1000 pounder instead Ease of removal of the trunk(s) for changing rear tire. we are suppose to make it HARDER for you to work on it, not easier.. Center stand. what,, that is wayyy to old school for the modern rider. Forward boards with normal foot pegs located rearward so standing up while riding is still possible, shift and brake levers at both locations (no heal toe please). the modern day rider has no interest in learning how easy it is to handle a bike because their standing up. Grease zerks on all main pivot points. Puc is crazy, no one wants to lay down and grease/pull maintenance anymore. Explore which tire sizes are the most common and build around those standards so tire choices and finding them are easy. This was a real good one! One that I actually spoke with the Yam reps at Sturgis about when I noticed the odd size rear tire on the back of the new Venture. I asked why Mom Yam did not stick with a more traditional tire size, something that would give the rider more choices in tires, not less.. They just shrugged me off. I did have that same Rep look up the price and choices of current tires at that time for the tire size Mom Yam had chosen. There was only ONE tire available at the time and that tire was listed at over $500!!! Honestly,, the rear wheel itself was CHEAPER than the tire! Made my point in asking for this in my wish list.. Enclose the motor well to keep ANY objectional heat off both riders BUT - use lots of venting with plenums to act as heaters when needed. what,, dont you know,,, modern cross country touring riders would rather look good showing off the motors while being burned than being comfortable while riding or stuck in traffic.

The issue is that the larger in cubic inch you go the more heat is produced. I rode my 78 shovel head all over the country and spent a TON of time on it exploring the desert. While it did get warm, its 74 inch V-twin shedded heat NOTHING like these big V-Twins of today do. I got a hunch that the 1800cc air cooled beemer will be one hot puppy as it cools its jugs/heads on the riders legs, wayyy more than the 750cc flat twins did. I also see a LOT of potential damage happening there when someone drops one.

Since its car tired on the rear and no use for motorcycle tire on the front now I would look at going dark side on the front too. Wayyy higher mileage plus more surface contact with the car tire may be a plus.. maybe...