Make millions: invent the canceler canceler!

[Semi-retired]

OK, guys.....tell me if there's one already for sale out there (I want two of them if there is)......or count me in on the royalties if YOU'RE the first person who invents it using MY idea:

 

What is "IT".........a gizmo to attach to my Venture AND my wife's V-Star that CANCELS our signal lights the SECOND we turn the corner and bring our bikes to the upright position.

 

Not 10 seconds after......not 5 seconds after.........not 2 seconds after.....IMMEDIATELY AFTER.

 

Is there any reason you can think of why our signal lights STAY ON for up to half a block (or more!) after we've made the turn we just made?? After all, it's the signalling of our INTENTION to turn that's the important thing.......not putting on a big show AFTERWARD..... "HEY, did you see me turn back there!?! Look, my signal's still on, to prove I did it!"

 

If you're like me (God help you, first of all....), you've probably noticed when group riding, or even just riding behind your buddy or your honey, that the person ahead often appears as though they may actually be about to make a second turn in the same direction as the one they just made. Even scarier, is the fact that the car coming out of the street or driveway on the opposite side from the signal light thinks the bike is turning too......and that it's SAFE TO PULL OUT!! Wrong.........SCREEEEEEECH........BANG!!!

 

What ever possessed Japanese engineers (haven't checked on BMW's or Ducati's to see if German and Italian engineers are likewise afflicted) to put a so-called SELF CANCELLING device into our signal lights that sends MISLEADINGLY EXTENDED "signals" and could potentially CAUSE more accidents than it PREVENTS?

 

Cars don't do it! They cancel the second the wheel straightens out. So, what's with bikes?

 

Get with it, Japan!!!

 

(Remember, all you up and coming MacGyvers out there.......this post is date-stamped....you saw it here first.......and I want my royalties in small, unmarked bills sent to my villa in Majorca, please!)

[RedRider]

I've invented it and you already have 2. They are called thumbs.

 

RR

[oldgoat]

hmmm maybe it can be hooked up to the stop watch on a first gen. set the stop watch for how many seconds turn the turn signal on then when stop watch stops so does the turn signal?? but thats just a crazy idea but if it could work i want a few royalties too:cool10:

[saddlebum]

How about installing a gyro in conjunction with a latching relay. As soon as the bike is upright after the turn the signal goes off.

[Reddog170]

A simple set of micro switches and simple logic circuit would do it and it would only take a couple hours to built and install. Should be easy to do. Shaun

[barend]

You must be one of those people who turns their blinker on when they enter a turn as opposed to "god forbid" before you turn, my MkI cancels automatically after I think 1/10th of a mile. learn the approximate distance and the things will stop right around the time you come out of the turn. If I misjudge or when shifting lanes I just nudge it over to the other side (as opposed to down) and stop them. Now my old Shadow on the other hand required both on and off input.

 

I should perhaps add that I've lived in the south long enough to be cynical when it comes to drivers and their abilities. Turning without signaling, signaling after one starts the turn or just prior to are so common it is ridiculous. .... someone get my soapbox before I get on it........

[Art708]

Be thankful that your signals self cancel.

[etcswjoe]

Be thankful that your signals self cancel.

 

Blinky Blinky

[MiCarl]

A simple set of micro switches and simple logic circuit would do it and it would only take a couple hours to built and install. Should be easy to do. Shaun

 

The trick is the sensor.

 

On a car there is a mechanism in the steering column that sees the wheel straighten out after a turn and cancels the signal. Since handlebars aren't really turned to steer a moving motorcycle you can't do something like that.

 

A Pendulum wouldn't work because the whole motorcycle is essentially a pendulum and would just move with it.

 

An ultra sonic sensor (to measure lean) could be tripped by defects in the road surface, unless it only worked for aggressive turns.

 

A Gyroscope would be the way to go. Not inexpensive.

[RandyR]

sounds like an application for a GPS hooked in could do it.... except for lane changes.

[bigbob]

OK, guys.....tell me if there's one already for sale out there (I want two of them if there is)......or count me in on the royalties if YOU'RE the first person who invents it using MY idea:

 

What is "IT".........a gizmo to attach to my Venture AND my wife's V-Star that CANCELS our signal lights the SECOND we turn the corner and bring our bikes to the upright position.

 

Not 10 seconds after......not 5 seconds after.........not 2 seconds after.....IMMEDIATELY AFTER.

 

Is there any reason you can think of why our signal lights STAY ON for up to half a block (or more!) after we've made the turn we just made?? After all, it's the signalling of our INTENTION to turn that's the important thing.......not putting on a big show AFTERWARD..... "HEY, did you see me turn back there!?! Look, my signal's still on, to prove I did it!"

 

If you're like me (God help you, first of all....), you've probably noticed when group riding, or even just riding behind your buddy or your honey, that the person ahead often appears as though they may actually be about to make a second turn in the same direction as the one they just made. Even scarier, is the fact that the car coming out of the street or driveway on the opposite side from the signal light thinks the bike is turning too......and that it's SAFE TO PULL OUT!! Wrong.........SCREEEEEEECH........BANG!!!

 

What ever possessed Japanese engineers (haven't checked on BMW's or Ducati's to see if German and Italian engineers are likewise afflicted) to put a so-called SELF CANCELLING device into our signal lights that sends MISLEADINGLY EXTENDED "signals" and could potentially CAUSE more accidents than it PREVENTS?

 

Cars don't do it! They cancel the second the wheel straightens out. So, what's with bikes?

 

Get with it, Japan!!!

 

(Remember, all you up and coming MacGyvers out there.......this post is date-stamped....you saw it here first.......and I want my royalties in small, unmarked bills sent to my villa in Majorca, please!)

My CAN-AM SPYDER does that

[Rick Haywood]

I've invented it and you already have 2. They are called thumbs.

 

RR

 

Actually, unless you ride a Harley it is only one thumb. Sometimes I think some people have to much time to think about things. I never really worried about them. I am just happy with the fact that they go off by themselves. Mine also seem to shut off pretty quick after making my turn. On my old bike the self cancelling only worked when I rode with another bike and they were behind me. After awhile they would holler at me on the CB to shut off my turn signal and it always seemed to work.

[Wolf]

Whats a turn signal??

[Flyinfool]

You must be one of those people who turns their blinker on when they enter a turn as opposed to "god forbid" before you turn, my MkI cancels automatically after I think 1/10th of a mile. learn the approximate distance and the things will stop right around the time you come out of the turn. If I misjudge or when shifting lanes I just nudge it over to the other side (as opposed to down) and stop them. Now my old Shadow on the other hand required both on and off input.

 

I should perhaps add that I've lived in the south long enough to be cynical when it comes to drivers and their abilities. Turning without signaling, signaling after one starts the turn or just prior to are so common it is ridiculous. .... someone get my soapbox before I get on it........

 

:sign yeah that: :sign yeah that:

 

I have found that by turning the turn signal on sooner, I have learned to get it to self cancel just as I am accelerating out of the turn.

 

My understanding of the self cancel feature is that there are two things going on. One is just a simple timer that will turn off the signals after a fixed number of seconds. But this timer is only running when the bike is traveling at over a speed of 20-25 mph. So while you are sitting at a red light the timer will not run out and cancel while you are just sitting there. I have found that IF I actually come to a complete stop before the turn that the signal will self cancel as soon as I hit 20-25mph, which for me is about 3/4 of the way thru a turn. If you do a rolling stop like making a turn when the light is green then you are solely at the mercy of the timer. If you do some experimenting you can figure out just how much early you need to turn on the signal so that it will cancel at the correct time. The amount that is early is not excessive. in the city if I turn on the signal just as I cross the street prior to my desired turn, that cancels it right at the completion of the turn. On the freeway if I signal soon enough to get about 5-6 blinks before the lane change it will cancel pretty close to the end of the lane change.

 

As far as making a self cancel that would really work in all conditions, you would be looking at something close to $300 each if made in quantity. There are a lot of variables that need to be considered. You would need gyros and accelerometers and speed sensors and timers and some software in a computer chip to try to calculate all of the variables. On the surface it sounds easy to do. Once you start to think of all of the different variables, it starts to get real complicated real fast.

 

Or as Jeff said, you do have a thumb......

[Sling]

When I had my VTX Igot caught a couple of times when I forgot the blinker was on!%&$**

Anyway I got a pizeo (sp.) (an anoying little beeper ) That is activated when the left or right signal is on. It's loud and you can't forget to turn off the signals.. Three wires coming off one to power and the other two to ea. of the signal lights Like I said it will remind you to turn them off! Not exactly what you want but I hope it helps

[XV1100SE]

From the '09 RSV manual....

"the turn signal lights will self-cancel after the vehicle has traveled both about 150m (490 ft) and for approximately 15 seconds. ...

TIP - The self-canceling system only operates when the vehicle is moving, so that the turn signal lights will not self-cancel while you are stopped at an intersection."

 

Based on this.... turn your signal on sooner and the self cancel will work just fine. :-)

[Panjandrum]

Just a reminder that, when you see any vehicle with an indicator blinking, it only tells you one thing: the vehicle's indicators work! Do NOT take it to mean that the vehicle is turning!

[SilvrT]

I've invented it and you already have 2. They are called thumbs.

 

RR

 

Exactly! I've habitually used my thumb to cancel the signal manually so often over the years that I do it "habitually" ...

 

 

Just a reminder that, when you see any vehicle with an indicator blinking, it only tells you one thing: the vehicle's indicators work! Do NOT take it to mean that the vehicle is turning!

 

How true ... one should not ASS.U.ME anything!

[Semi-retired]

Just a reminder that, when you see any vehicle with an indicator blinking, it only tells you one thing: the vehicle's indicators work! Do NOT take it to mean that the vehicle is turning!

 

I know that.......and you know that........it's the car driver turning into me I'm worried about.

:-)

[bkuhr]

My understanding of the self cancel feature is that there are two things going on. One is just a simple timer that will turn off the signals after a fixed number of seconds. But this timer is only running when the bike is traveling at over a speed of 20-25 mph.

.....

 

Close Jeff, actually both a timer set for I think 10 sec, and a odo hookup set for 150m.(10s/150m spec of top of my head)

Both timer and odo must complete their cycles to cancel the turns.

 

Think like this,

-If high speed lane change the 150m odo will trip quickly, but turns will stay on until 10s done

-If stopped at light 10s will trip, but turns stay on until 150m.

 

Actually, IMO, I think its pretty ingenious. As for changing it, my thought is you may be able to rework the current canceler with different parameters. Maybe user adjustable timer and odo counter.

 

FWIW

When the canceler completes both cycles, it APPLIES 12v to the 3rd "control" terminal of the flasher, causing the flasher to shut off. If hand control is used to turn off turns, 12v is completely removed from the flasher.

 

This 3rd "control" terminal is the reason that it is difficult to use non OEM auto type flasher as one work like to low current LED type turns. On most auto 3 terminal flashers the 3rd lead is a pilot output, as opposed to control input

 

I have managed to construct a replacement flasher that will work with LEDs and auto cancel. If any interest can do a writeup, but basically took 2 terminal auto led flasher and added relay to accept 12v "control", then relay removes voltage from flasher.

Edited August 12, 2011 by bkuhr
more better

[jfoster]

Semi-retired, I totally agree with you and understand what your saying....

[Art708]

Blinky Blinky

 

I hear that a lot!

[Art708]

Actually, unless you ride a Harley it is only one thumb. Sometimes I think some people have to much time to think about things. I never really worried about them. I am just happy with the fact that they go off by themselves. Mine also seem to shut off pretty quick after making my turn. On my old bike the self cancelling only worked when I rode with another bike and they were behind me. After awhile they would holler at me on the CB to shut off my turn signal and it always seemed to work.

 

Rick....I'm constantly hearing "blinky blinky" from my 2 best riding pals.

[Wolf]

Rick....I'm constantly hearing "blinky blinky" from my 2 best riding pals.

 

 

The Valkyrie did not have the foresight to have auto cancelers, nor cruise control for that matter...

[Semi-retired]

Semi-retired, I totally agree with you and understand what your saying....

 

Thanks, jfoster, I'm glad to see that someone agrees with me. Brian and several others have outlined all the engineering and gizmos that go in to determining WHEN and WHERE our turn signals WILL CANCEL. However, it's all about when they SHOULD CANCEL!

 

The point is, they virtually ALWAYS cancel TOO LATE.......long after the turn has been made.....at a point in the road when the bike has not only completed the INITIAL signalled turn......but has also passed six or seven driveways, one or two laneways PLUS a couple of sidestreets, every one of which could have been perceived (by other drivers) as ANOTHER turn, because the signal is STILL FLASHING!!

 

I hate to use so many upper case words, but I don't know how else to accentuate the fact that the Yamaha self-cancelling signal light technology is CRAP!

 

How many of you (including Brian and anyone else who has all the 'manual references' and technical specs) actually think the signal lights on your Venture turn off as quickly as they should? I'm thinking NOT MANY...otherwise there wouldn't have been such an "orchestra" of members saying they use THEIR THUMBS to turn them off.

 

I know what a thumb is......I know how electrical circuits works....I'm an auto mechanic by training and I took electrical shop and electronics in highschool. BUT, what I don't see is a well engineered system at work here.

 

I see a lot of loyal owners making excuses for what is maybe an OVER-ENGINEERED, but still POORLY engineered system that, no matter its intricate complexities and combined time/distance algorithms is STILL a PIECE OF SH*T. It still fails to TURN OFF when it should.

 

As a rider, I shouldn't have to GUESS or CALCULATE how many feet I am from the turn I MIGHT make or might not, if and when I get close to it (life is full of surprises, right?) and flick my turn signal when I think it's the exact, correct moment based on how many seconds and/OR how many feet I MIGHT TRAVEL between NOW and THE TIME I will navigate my turn and come out of it on THE OTHER SIDE.

 

GIVE ME A BREAK. (I'm yelling at YAMAHA.......not you guys!)

 

Cars turn a corner.........and the signal light immediately turns OFF. That's OFF..... the SECOND they round the corner. Stop making excuses. ( and PLEASE don't tell me motorcycles don't have steering wheels, so it's different!!!!). There HAS to be an EASY, AFFORDABLE way to make our signals turn OFF immediately after we've made a turn.

 

Now I'll shut up.......and wait for Yamaha to come back with an answer...or, more likely, an excuse! (Trust me.....I'm NOT holding my breath.) (Do they even have an "outed" representative who participates on these, the forums of their single largest owners' group in the world!?!?)

 

Just sayin.

Mike