V7Goose

I just checked the service manual for the XVZ1200, and the valve tool it shows looks very different than the one for the 2nd gen (different part number too). There is always a chance the tool would still work on both motors, but it is not the same tool. Of course, there were only 72 different models of those old antique 1st gen bikes, so there might be multiple different valve tools for them too! My expertise, such as it is, is limited to the RSV. Goose UPDATE: The XVZ13DS supplementary service manual for the 85 models DOES show the same tool as the 2nd gens use. So that keeps the question wide open - apparently SOME antiques use the same tool as we do, but not all of 'em.

If you are running an E3 in the back, that is too much air - the sidewall on that tire shows a MAX pressure of 40 lbs. I don't think that will affect the pulling issue (I'm sure you have something else wrong with the bike), but I know from personal experience that too much pressure in the rear tire WILL negatively affect the handling of an RSV. This is especially noticeable in long curves when loaded. It was very noticeable with Avon Venoms at 50 lbs (not over inflated by tire max, but handling improved at 48 and below) and with Pirelli MT66 at anything over the sidewall max of 40 (just like the E3). I didn't deliberately over-inflate the Pirelli, just forgot to check the sidewall when I first installed it and put in the same pressure I normally ran on Venoms. Poor handling clued me it. Goose

Hey guys, I just found a neat service that will swap up to 5 shims for $12 (includes shipping). Maybe your best option if trying to do this yourself, and if you have a kit, that is a great way to get rid of those useless sizes. Here is the link: http://store.albaaction.com/shop/ALBA-SHIM-EX.html Buddy, next time I or someone else wants to use your kit, why don't you just tell them what sizes to order and which ones to return out of the kit? Goose

Hey guys, I just found a neat service that will swap up to 5 shims for $12 (includes shipping). Maybe your best option if trying to do this yourself, and if you have a kit, that is a great way to get rid of those useless sizes. Here is the link: http://store.albaaction.com/shop/ALBA-SHIM-EX.html Buddy, next time I or someone else wants to use your kit, why don't you just tell them what sizes to order and which ones to return out of the kit? Goose

I do appreciate your thoughts and comments - I've included some responses above, but I'll have to think about how much to add to the writeup - it is already way too long. I wasn't trying to write a new tech manual, just provide more detail and some clarification that it does not have. Virtually all of that information is in the manual, and that is why I provided the appropriate page numbers to print out before someone starts the job. I think I'll probably just include this and other selected posts to the thread when I move it into the tech library - that way the info will be there without making the writeup even longer. Because of the limited applicability of the stupid $70 tool, as well as the fact that newer bikes do not seem to be using those big 25mm shims, so a big investment in the kit may not get good payback, looking to borrow one seems like the best idea to me. Thanx again for the thoughts, Goose

I do appreciate your thoughts and comments - I've included some responses above, but I'll have to think about how much to add to the writeup - it is already way too long. I wasn't trying to write a new tech manual, just provide more detail and some clarification that it does not have. Virtually all of that information is in the manual, and that is why I provided the appropriate page numbers to print out before someone starts the job. I think I'll probably just include this and other selected posts to the thread when I move it into the tech library - that way the info will be there without making the writeup even longer. Because of the limited applicability of the stupid $70 tool, as well as the fact that newer bikes do not seem to be using those big 25mm shims, so a big investment in the kit may not get good payback, looking to borrow one seems like the best idea to me. Thanx again for the thoughts, Goose

See my comments above - thanx! Goose

I wouldn't worry too much about just leaving them off - like you say, those boxes do fit together fairly tight, and even the oil mist up in there should provide an additional dust filter for whatever air gets sucked in. I have just seen so many of them deteriorated and coming apart when I help people work on their carbs I thought I'd try to find the replacement info to post in these instructions. I was surprised to not find it in the parts breakdown. Goose

No sweat, Eddie; you just got very lucky up at Don's. When Ponch had to take my bike into town to pick up some new plugs, I asked him to find a can of that solvent to fix a part on Don's bike. Then later, when I found your chrome windshield tab broken off on the floor of the garage, we went around checking bikes until we found the one with the flopping trim! That's a heck of a chain of coincidences that had to all line up for you to get that chrome trim fixed - I guess it was just your day - very glad I could be part of it! Goose

Hmmm, seems like those little foam thingies sealing the crankcase vent connection to the air plenums might not be available. Has anyone had any luck replacing them? The foam rings to which I refer go around the openings on both sides of #22 in the parts breakdown below, but I sure can't find any sign of a seal or foam ring in that diagram:[ATTACH]33199[/ATTACH] Goose

No particular plans at this time - be happy to ride along if I'm not doing something else. Goose

Just wanted to correct a technical point here - road crown causes a bike riding in the right lane to pull to the LEFT. Motorcycles have rounded tires (or at least they are SUPPOSED TO!), and one of the forces that causes a motorcycle to turn is the "coning effect" - like a road cone laid on its side, it cannot roll straight. When a bike is leaned over, the contact patch of the tire is no longer symmetrical in relationship to the road. When leaning to the left, the left side of the contact patch is further up the curve than the right side, which will be closer to the center of the tire. In effect, a leaning motorcycle tire has the shape of a very large but short traffic cone laying on its side, and when it rolls, the smaller end of the cone cannot cover as much ground, forcing the tire to turn in that direction. A road crown causes the identical relationship between the road and the tire as leaning the bike to the left: the center of the road is higher, thus closer to the rider than the right side; therefore, the contact patch will be slightly shifted to the left side of the tire and causing a subtle turning force. Now back to the question of the bike at hand - obviously, the road crown will affect all bikes of the same type (with similar tires) the same way, so the only real way to be certain if it is the road or the bike is to have the same rider take two bikes over the same course. If you sense both of them pull to the left, then maybe it is just you, BUT, if yours pulls to the left and the other "normal" RSV does not, then you are forced to accept the fact something is wrong with your machine. Goose

An 04 with only three oil changes??? Another extreme case of heinous motorcycle abuse!!!!!! I'm glad you rescued that bike from the monster, and I hope you treat it better! I also hope he didn't ruin it for you. Goose

I will, as soon as I am done fine-tuning it based on our collective memories and any other comments I get. Thanx, Goose

Uhhhhhh, if you are talking about those dinky little tabs on the inner fairing at the ends of the windshield mounting bracket, don't bother. The solvent will certainly put them back on, but they will just break off again within a week, just like they do on every RSV. IMHO, the only decent fix for that problem is the support struts I designed to brace the bracket from the lower speaker screw. Look in the tech library for a complete detailed article on making and installing those struts. Goose

I look forward to doing some comparisons with you - it seems like we may actually have some similar tastes. One of the biggest problems in talking about major brands that have been around a while is that almost all of the breweries have been bought and/or changed their recipes over time. PBR is a perfect example of that - it was once great, then tried to get cheaper and turned into an embarrassing swill that became a joke world-wide. I have heard they were back to the original recipe, but it's been a long time since I tried it. Just for grins, here are three beers that are widely available and which I rate right at the top for major commercial brews (in no particular order, since they are different types): Foster's Special Bitter in the green oil can (NOT Foster's Lager in the blue can) Warsteiner Premium Verum Negra Modelo Goose

I agree with you 100%, but I will add this - I used to buy the tubes at Ace for the very reason you suggest, but I found they didn't seem to last any longer than an opened can of the solvent, and they cost about the same. Since I usually keep a can of the stuff around for pipe repairs and general plastic glue, that is what I use most. If you have to buy the can, I have found that putting the cap back on extra tight WITH PLIERS after you are done will make it last many months longer than the tightest you can get it with your bare hands. Seems that air in the can is only part of the problem, with the solvent evaporating also being a big issue, and the caps on the plastic tubes just don't seal well no matter what I tried. Goose

Beer preferences (similar to motorcycle preferences) are a very individualized thing - if everyone could recognize a terrible nasty offensive foul brew, Miller wouldn't be able to sell even one bottle (clearly the worst urine sold in bottle or can anywhere!). There are lots of great beers available, and probably thousands of just average but drinkable beers - I will happily sample any of it, but I despise Miller and any wheat beer. And I actually find Lone Star pretty good. I look forward to seeing what you present. Ride safe, Goose

WARNING - this is LONG, so unless you are actually going to adjust your valves, or just like to read mechanical cookbooks, you probably should just stop here! There is a LOT involved in this job. It needs to be done, but it is probably worth whatever you local shop is charging. I'd certainly pay $200 for it if I trusted the shop, and I'm very comfortable doing the job myself (but you are probably not going to get it done that cheap). If you don't trust your shop, or don't have the money, then read on! We periodically have questions and discussions here on valve adjustments, like how often? (26,600 miles), is it really needed? (yes), how to? (read on), etc. And the tech manual, along with several other members, indicate it is a BIG job. So Ponch and I decided to organize a training session to see first-hand what was involved and find out about any surprises before we attempted to help any other members on this. And I want to really emphasize how thankful we are to BuddyRich for his wonderful loan of a shim kit and special tool, along with his selfless help of an entire day of hot sweaty work! Without him, what follows would probably never have happened: Background info: My 2005 RSV had the first valve check/adjustment done on schedule around 27,000 miles through the initial maintenance contract I purchased with the bike. Since the shop did it, I have no idea if any shim changes were actually needed, but since I saw evidence the valve cover gaskets were changed, I will assume that at the end of that service, all 16 valves were within spec. My bike now has 70,000 miles on it, putting it about 15,000 miles overdue for the second valve check. I found about half the valves either right at minimum tolerance or too tight (and three of them were significantly too tight). You get to decide how often you want to do your own bike, but I'll be doing this one by 30,000 miles each time now. Planning: 1. Order your gaskets and find tools and shims first. The valve cover gasket is 4NK-11193-00-00, and the best price I found was at www.carolinacycle.com for about $18 ea. I wouldn't want to do this job without a valve shim kit unless I was willing to leave the bike torn down for several days to go find the right shims after measuring all the clearances. In addition, there are different ways to hold down the valve buckets to change the shims, but the only "right" way (and certainly the easiest) is to have the special tool; therefore, find or buy one before you start. We have several members who have the tool and a shim kit (just a selection of various sizes) who may be willing to loan them. BuddyRich and Mother are two you might ask (if anyone else wants their name listed or removed here, please contact me so I can edit this post!). If you find someone to loan a shim kit, PLEASE ask them ahead of time to look at the current collection of shims, particularly the 265 and 270 sizes, to see if any common sizes are in short supply. The shims don't cost much, and in return for the loan, you really should buy at least two new shims in needed sizes before you start the job. Not only will this make it more likely you have the ones you need for your own bike, but it will make the kit better for the next use. It is hard to say ahead of time what sizes might be most needed, since every bike will change the mix. When we did four bikes on the same day, it was very interesting to see that. After the first two bikes, we had a ton of 270 shims, but not many 265 or 275. But after the next bike, there were only a couple 270s left but a big stack of 275. 2. This is a perfect time to change your coolant, so if you need it, have that on hand too. Even if you don't need to change it, you WILL need to drain about a quart, so have an appropriate clean tray and funnel that will allow you to do this and then add it back later. 3. This is also the perfect time to change your plugs, so have them on hand too. 4. Get a can of spray carb and choke cleaner. You are gonna want to pull those carbs (perfect time to set the floats too), and the #1 and #2 carbs are gonna be NASTY with oil residue and dirt. Legend has it that you can do this job without pulling the carbs, but no way I would want to try it. And besides, once you have all the other stuff off, pulling the carbs just isn't that hard. 5. You will really want to have your bike straight up for this job, so a center stand or maintenance jack is good to have on hand. This isn't required, but will be a lot easier and cleaner! On the side stand, you get some oil dumping off the left corner of the heads when you crack the valve cover loose, and more that comes out the covers in the left crank case. The oil mess is much worse if you have Leveling Links and you try this on the side stand! 6. Misc. tools: A good set of feeler gauges are obvious, but you will also need a torque wrench that goes down to 7.2 ft lbs (10 Nm or 86 in lbs), and a magnetic retrieving tool, tweezers or hemostats, and a good quality very small screwdriver (like a mid-size jeweler's driver, but stronger) will be necessary to remove the shims. I also recommend a tube of high temperature RTV 'gasket goo' to use on certain points of the new gaskets. On those feeler gauges, most sets have both inch and mm numbers, but the primary (or even increments) that it uses will be either inch or metric. You will have a much easier time of measuring and selecting shims if you have a metric set. And make certain you have a very bright flashlight - I prefer one of the new small LED ones because of the birghtness and color of the light. 7. Instructions - the shop manual is generally pretty good here, so I suggest you print out pages 3-9 through 3-13. The Job: Start by removing the basic stuff: seat, tank, lower cowlings, air filters. Since you WILL need to drain some coolant, just go ahead and pull those lower cowlings now and make taking off the air filters easier. Remove the "dog bones" connecting the front cylinder heads to the frame. Remove the air intake tract, including the rubber tubes where the air filters attach, the top air plenums, and the rubber T between the air filters (it is held on by one 10mm bolt on the right side of the frame). To get the air plenums off, you will need to first remove the metal straps on top (four screws each), and the two screws holding the crank case vent hose in the middle, then pull the hoses and wire bundles off to the side. After the clamps on top of each carb and the front clamp are loose, each plenum will just pull straight up. When taking off the metal straps, note that the inside front screw on each is longer than the other three, and be CAREFUL when putting all of those screws back at the end of this job - they will strip very easily! When you pull the crankcase breather connection loose from between the two air plenums, be careful of the little foam rings, most of them are stretched and falling apart - unfortunately they don't seem to be available in the parts breakdown. When you lift off each air plenum, there is a vent hose connected on the rear that will just pop off (watch out for the little wire spring clip - they aren't really necessary, but you don't want to have one pop off and get stuck in a carb or something). Pull all four plugs (necessary to turn the engine over while checking the valves). Drain the coolant - if not changing it, you will still need to drain a quart or so to allow the removal of the water hose from the rear head. CAUTION! The 12mm drain plug on the bottom left of the radiator is just plastic (as is the radiator), so when putting the plug back in, DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN!!!! The correct tightness is about what you can put on a clean, dry 3/8" socket extension with your bare hand. Pull the carb assembly. Start by disconnecting the fuel line behind the right rear carb and open the two clips on top of the carbs to release the fuel line that goes to the tank. Then disconnect the two overflow hoses that connect on top between the carbs and run forward to the front of the air filters. Go ahead and remove those overflow hoses completely, just pay attention to how they are routed and watch for the little plastic clip that holds them together between the carbs. At this point, all you need to do is loosen the hose clamp beneath each carb (but see the caution below) and disconnect the two electric plugs for the wires connected near the left front carb. You will find both of these plugs right up next to the frame under the large main wire bundle. The white two-wire plug is for the carb heaters, and the black triangular three-wire plug is the throttle position sensor. With the hose clamps below all four carbs loose, you can pull straight up on the assembly on each side to "pop" them loose from the intake manifolds (and this usually takes a lot of force!). With the carb assembly loose it slides straight out the left side. I generally wait until this point when the carbs are part way out to disconnect the throttle cables - access is much easier. Just loosen the long nut on each cable to allow it to slip off the bracket - as long as you don't move the small nut, the cables adjustment will not change. CAUTION! The screws on the hose clamps on the bottom of each carb are VERY soft metal. In addition, those clamps each have a metal collar to prevent you from over tightening them on the rubber boot. On most of the bikes I have worked on, at least one of those screws has been frozen so hard that the head stripped out, requiring me to drill it off to remove the clamp. If you have this same problem, stuff a rag under the clamp before you drill it off so you don't loose that little collar. The screw can then be replaced with any standard 4mm screw from the hardware store. With the carbs out, you probably should stuff a paper towel in each intake manifold to prevent anything from accidentally disappearing down there while you are working on the bike. Remove the chrome covers on the cylinder heads. Remove the plastic wire tray under the frame in front of the battery cover. This is held on by one 10mm bolt on the left side of the frame and a screw under all those hoses in front of the battery. Once that tray is off, pull the disconnected vent hoses out the back to get some needed working room above the rear valve cover. Finally, the last thing to take off before you can actually remove the valve covers is the rubber hose for the water line to the rear cylinder head (no need to take the front one off). You will need to remove the two plugs/covers in the center of the left crankcase cover to turn the engine, so now is a good time to do that. The two #3 philips-head screws are generally REAL tight, so make sure you use the correct size screwdriver to not bugger them. With the screws out, just use a very small screwdriver to work the cover back and forth on the O-ring to get it to pop off. There is a thin metal plate that will fall out as soon as the cover comes loose - it just goes back in with the ridge facing the crank, and you usually will not need to replace the O-rings on the covers. And now for the valve covers! Four flat allen-head bolts on each and they will pop off without too much effort. The gaskets are thick rubber, and they overlap a hollow cavity at the corner of each head. Just use your finger to pull of that rubber corner and then you can put a small screwdriver under there and catch the edge of the valve cover to pry it up. The rear cover will be difficult to get off, even after everything you have already removed! But just raise it as high as you can against the fuel line or other wire bundles still hanging below the frame and kinda rotate it forward to clear the cam chain. The front cover has lots of top clearance, but you need to take it out the right side to clear the water hose you left in place. FINALLY - ready to actually start checking valve clearance! MEASURING THE VALVE CLEARANCE: You can approach the measurement of the valve clearance two ways - some folks prefer to just turn the engine until they see the cam lobe pointing up for whatever valve they are checking, but I prefer to follow the more common practice of setting a piston at TDC on the compression stroke, then checking all valves for that cylinder (this is also the method from the service manual). But here is a little clue - don't get too hung up on believing everything in the service manual! There is a note in several places that tells you "TDC on the compression stroke can be found when the camshaft lobes are turned away from each other." NOT SO!!! While true for the front two cylinders, the cam lobes on the rear two cylinders will NEVER point away from each other! Seems weird to me, as I really expected the valve timing to show the identical relationship between the cams on all the cylinders for the same engine, but the facts show different. And before anyone asks, I did check my valve timing according to the manual and the index marks on the cams, and all four cams were correct. Anyway, back to the measurement. Start by turning the engine counterclockwise until you see the valves on #1 cylinder (left rear) all closed, then watch for the timing mark on the generator rotor through the observation hole to align with the mark on the crankcase cover. It is not necessary for it to be exactly perfect to measure the valves. Now you can check the clearance on both intake and both exhaust valves for #1. Since you are dealing with four valves at a time, it is helpful to write down the clearance you measure so you don't have to re-check them over and over again! If any valves need to be adjusted, I explain this in the next section. After completing the measurement and/or adjustment for #1, if you turn the crank 180 degrees, cylinder #3 (right rear) will be at TDC and ready to check (just put the socket on the crankshaft with the handle pointing to the rear and turn it counterclockwise until the handle points forward - can't get much easier than that!). When you are done with #3, turn the crank 180 degrees again, then start watching for a second timing mark to line up on the generator rotor 70 degrees later (a little less than 1/4 of a turn), now #2 is at TDC and ready to check. Finally, after checking/adjusting #2, just turn the crank 180 degrees one more time and #4 will be at TDC and ready to check. When you are done with #4, turning the crank just 110 degrees (slightly more than 1/4 turn) puts #1 back at TDC to start over. After you have made adjustments to any valve, I strongly recommend you turn the engine through several turns to ensure the valve shims are fully seated and measure them again to see if the final clearance is what you want. I found I needed to change the shims several times on some valves to get it right. By going through the 1, 3, 2, 4 sequence several times you get the chance to double-check all your measurements, as well as re-check the ones you changed. CHANGING THE VALVE CLEARANCE: Note: You will find a second person to help turn the engine VERY helpful here, especially when working on #3 and #4! To adjust the clearance you need to remove the existing shim and replace it with one of a more appropriate thickness. The majority of changes will be to a thinner shim, but you won't have any idea what the needed size will be until you get the existing shim out. Getting the tappet adjusting tool inserted the first time can be a little tricky. It can be inserted from either side of the cam, depending on which side you want to pull the shim from. The first thing you do is turn the crank in either direction so that the cam lobe is pointing AWAY from the side where you plan to insert the tool. Next, before you insert the tool, use your fingertip to turn both shim buckets until one of the open notches is where you can reach it with your small screwdriver - this is where you will need to pry up the old shim to break the suction of the oil film (and that can be tough to do). To insert the tool, try to rotate the short end under the cam to depress the buckets. You won't get it very far just with your fingers, so slowly turn the crank in the proper direction to let the cam finish turning the tool into place (while keeping some pressure on the long arm of the tool to make it move). You will want to make sure the tool is turned all the way until the long arm touches the side of the head or you won't have enough clearance to pull out the old shim. Now that the tool is in place, reach in with that little screwdriver and pry up on the bottom edge of the shim - the suction of the oil film will be STRONG, so don't be surprised if you have a tough time getting each shim to pop up. Once it does pop up, you can either grab it with tweezers or a magnet to pull it out. Turn it over and note the number on the bottom (they should always be installed with the number down). Replacement shims are only available in .05mm increments (such as 260, 265, and 270), but the ones you pull out might be be anything (such as 269 or 272). That is why you will find some odd numbers in the shim kit - they came out of someone else's bike. To decide what shim to put back in, you need to know what the clearance was before you removed it (remember, I said to write it down)! The shop manual has a really neat chart that lets you just look along one axis to find the number on your current shim, then just look down the side to find the clearance you measured - where the two lines intersect, that is the new shim number you need. It works pretty good, but make sure you look at the right chart (they are different for intake and exhaust)! If you try and do this job without having a shim kit, those charts are really the best way to decide which shims you need to buy. A less formal but more natural way is to just look at the number of the current shim, think about how much you need to change it (was that valve just a little tight, or a lot tight?), and then choose a slightly thinner or thicker shim that you think might be in the ballpark. For example, if you pull out a 273 shim and the valve was just a tad too tight, you might want to try a 270, but if it seemed quite a bit lower than the minimum spec, better go straight to the 265. No matter how you selected the new shim size, it is very important to turn the engine over several times and then re-check the clearance to see if your guess was correct - even using the charts leaves room for error. Putting it all back Together: Just a few notes here on reassembling the bike - most everything will just be a reverse of the disassembly process, but there are a few pointers to help you. Valve Cover Gaskets: These are very thick rubber with big half-circle "lumps" at the ends of each camshaft. They only go on ONE way. They are flat on the bottom, and the top has a ridge that fits into the groove on the valve cover. But it does not fit tight enough in the groove to hold it in place while you put the cover back. No matter, though, since there is not enough clearance to get the cover back on the rear cylinders with it attached - your only choice is to place the gasket on the head and then maneuver the cover in place. The original gasket seems to have been held to the cover by several spots of rubber cement in the groove, but there was no sign that a gasket sealant was used all the way around. Other than those glue spots on the cover, there was no sign that the original factory gasket had any RTV type gasket sealant used at all during assembly. However, when the shop did my valves the first time, they DID use a bit of RTV, but only on the lumps, and neither gasket ever leaked in 40,000 miles. For comparison, one person who had replaced the gasket without using any sealant did develop a slight leak at one of those lumps over time. For these reasons, I personally recommend applying just a thin coat of high temperature RTV to the depression in the head where those lumps fit before putting the gasket in place. Now look closely at the parts of the gasket where it is next to the spark plugs - on the exhaust side only you will see a slight squiggle or wave in the gasket, and on the cylinder head you will see a matching wave. Make sure you position the gasket with those points matching. Then look at the cover - notice the same wave? Guess where it goes . . . When you lower the cover down on the gasket, the challenge is to get the ridge on the gasket to smoothly fit up into the groove on the cover all the way around. If you even have a hint that the cover is not completely smooth and flush on the head, then the gasket is NOT completely seated in that groove. Take your time and trace the entire edge with a bright flashlight to get it right. Remember how much work it was to get that cover off; you don't want to have to do it again! When putting the front gasket and cover in place, remember they must go in from the right side to fit around that water pipe. The torque on the cover bolts is only 7.2 ft lbs., and that is not much. Make sure you have a wrench that has a setting that low, and use it. These are not the kind of gaskets where you can go back later and tighten them a little more if you get a leak. In fact, over tightening the cover on that thick rubber will just distort it and make the leak worse. Although the manual does not say to tighten the bolts from the inside out in a cross pattern like you would the head bolts, that is still the method I recommend. Air Intake Parts: Make sure you get that front T in place before you put the carbs in, same with the rubber Y that connects the air plenums to the T. The only thing to remember about the T is that it has a locating lug sticking out the front that MUST fit in the rubber grommet in the frame. The hose clamp on that rubber Y is located on the left side of the bike, with the head facing up. Initially it seems impossible to access, but just use a long screwdriver behind the wire bundles next to the frame. Putting the carbs back in: After making sure the hose clamps are still properly positioned on the top of the intake manifolds, slide the carbs in from the left side, but leave them just far enough out to make it easy to attach the throttle cables. Then after making sure all the carbs are centered on the manifolds, you need to push down on them pretty hard to pop them back in place. Try to put the base of your hand on top of the carb throats, not on the plastic diaphragm covers. Re-route all the fuel lines and vent hoses appropriately, and don't forget to re-connect the two plugs. Putting on the air plenums: Some people have had real trouble getting the air plenums to fit properly back on top of the carbs (and stay there when they tighten the clamps). In every single case I have seen, this has been caused by the rubber neck on the plenum being caught on the edge of the carb and buckled under the clamp - usually behind the carb where it is impossible to see. Make sure the clamps are plenty loose and rock the plenum a bit when putting it on. If the rubber is not buckled in there, the plenum will fit fully down on the carbs and not spring back up at all. Unlike the lower hose clamps, those on top of the carbs do not have a metal collar to prevent them from being over tightened, so just make sure they are properly set in the grooves on the plenum and snug them up pretty good instead of trying to play Magilla. I think that is about it. Let me know if you think I have missed something or you have any questions! Goose

WARNING - this is LONG, so unless you are actually going to adjust your valves, or just like to read mechanical cookbooks, you probably should just stop here! There is a LOT involved in this job. It needs to be done, but it is probably worth whatever you local shop is charging. I'd certainly pay $200 for it if I trusted the shop, and I'm very comfortable doing the job myself. If you don't trust your shop, or don't have the money, then read on! We periodically have questions and discussions here on valve adjustments, like how often? (26,600 miles), is it really needed? (yes), how to? (read on), etc. And the tech manual, along with several other members, indicate it is a BIG job. So Ponch and I decided to organize a training session to see first-hand what was involved and find out about any surprises before we attempted to help any other members on this. And I want to really emphasize how thankful we are to BuddyRich for his wonderful loan of a shim kit and special tool, along with his selfless help of an entire day of hot sweaty work! Without him, what follows would probably never have happened: Background info: My 2005 RSV had the first valve check/adjustment done on schedule around 27,000 miles through the initial maintenance contract I purchased with the bike. Since the shop did it, I have no idea if any shim changes were actually needed, but since I saw evidence the valve cover gaskets were changed, I will assume that at the end of that service, all 16 valves were within spec. My bike now has 70,000 miles on it, putting it about 15,000 miles overdue for the second valve check. I found about half the valves either right at minimum tolerance or too tight (and three of them were significantly too tight). You get to decide how often you want to do your own bike, but I'll be doing this one by 30,000 miles each time now. Planning: 1. Order your gaskets and find tools and shims first. I wouldn't want to do this job without a valve shim kit unless I was willing to leave the bike torn down for several days to go find the right shims after measuring all the clearances. In addition, there are different ways to hold down the valve buckets to change the shims, but the only "right" way (and certainly the easiest) is to have the special tool; therefore, find or buy one before you start. The valve cover gasket is 4NK-11193-00-00, and the best price I found was at http://www.carolinacycle.com for about $18 ea. We have several members who have the tool and a shim kit (just a selection of various sizes) who may be willing to loan them. BuddyRich and Mother are two you might ask (if anyone else wants their name listed or removed here, please contact me so I can edit this post!). If you find someone to loan a shim kit, PLEASE ask them ahead of time to look at the current collection of shims, particularly the 265 and 270 sizes, to see if any common sizes are in short supply. The shims don't cost much, and in return for the loan, you really should buy at least two new shims in needed sizes before you start the job. Not only will this make it more likely you have the ones you need for your own bike, but it will make the kit better for the next use. It is hard to say ahead of time what sizes might be most needed, since every bike will change the mix. When we did four bikes on the same day, it was very interesting to see that. After the first two bikes, we had a ton of 270 shims, but not many 265 or 275. But after the next bike, there were only a couple 270s left but a big stack of 275. 2. This is a perfect time to change your coolant, so if you need it, have that on hand too. Even if you don't need to change it, you WILL need to drain about a quart, so have an appropriate clean tray and funnel that will allow you to do this and then add it back later. 3. This is also the perfect time to change your plugs, so have them on hand too. 4. Get a can of spray carb and choke cleaner. You are gonna want to pull those carbs (perfect time to set the floats too), and the #1 and #2 carbs are gonna be NASTY with oil residue and dirt. Legend has it that you can do this job without pulling the carbs, but no way I would want to try it. And besides, once you have all the other stuff off, pulling the carbs just isn't that hard. 5. You will really want to have your bike straight up for this job, so a center stand or maintenance jack is good to have on hand. This isn't required, but will be a lot easier and cleaner! On the side stand, you get some oil dumping off the left corner of the heads when you crack the valve cover loose, and more that comes out the covers in the left crank case. The oil mess is much worse if you have Leveling Links and you try this on the side stand! 6. Misc. tools: A good set of feeler gauges are obvious, but you will also need a torque wrench that goes down to 7.2 ft lbs (10 Nm or 86 in lbs), and a magnetic retrieving tool, tweezers or hemostats, and a good quality very small screwdriver (like a mid-size jeweler's driver, but stronger) will be necessary to remove the shims. I also recommend a tube of high temperature RTV 'gasket goo' to use on certain points of the new gaskets. On those feeler gauges, most sets have both inch and mm numbers, but the primary (or even increments) that it uses will be either inch or metric. You will have a much easier time of measuring and selecting shims if you have a metric set. And make certain you have a very bright flashlight - I prefer one of the new small LED ones because of the birghtness and color of the light. 7. Instructions - the shop manual is generally pretty good here, so I suggest you print out pages 3-9 through 3-13. The Job: Start by removing the basic stuff: seat, tank, lower cowlings, air filters. Since you WILL need to drain some coolant, just go ahead and pull those lower cowlings now and make taking off the air filters easier. Remove the "dog bones" connecting the front cylinder heads to the frame. Remove the air intake tract, including the rubber tubes where the air filters attach, the top air plenums, and the rubber T between the air filters (it is held on by one 10mm bolt on the right side of the frame). To get the air plenums off, you will need to first remove the metal straps on top (four screws each), and the two screws holding the crank case vent hose in the middle, then pull the hoses and wire bundles off to the side. After the clamps on top of each carb and the front clamp are loose, each plenum will just pull straight up. When taking off the metal straps, note that the inside front screw on each is longer than the other three, and be CAREFUL when putting all of those screws back at the end of this job - they will strip very easily! When you pull the crankcase breather connection loose from between the two air plenums, be careful of the little foam rings, most of them are stretched and falling apart - unfortunately they don't seem to be available in the parts breakdown. When you lift off each air plenum, there is a vent hose connected on the rear that will just pop off (watch out for the little wire spring clip - they aren't really necessary, but you don't want to have one pop off and get stuck in a carb or something). Pull all four plugs (necessary to turn the engine over while checking the valves). Drain the coolant - if not changing it, you will still need to drain a quart or so to allow the removal of the water hose from the rear head. CAUTION! The 12mm drain plug on the bottom left of the radiator is just plastic (as is the radiator), so when putting the plug back in, DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN!!!! The correct tightness is about what you can put on a clean, dry 3/8" socket extension with your bare hand. Pull the carb assembly. Start by disconnecting the fuel line behind the right rear carb and open the two clips on top of the carbs to release the fuel line that goes to the tank. Then disconnect the two overflow hoses that connect on top between the carbs and run forward to the front of the air filters. Go ahead and remove those overflow hoses completely, just pay attention to how they are routed and watch for the little plastic clip that holds them together between the carbs. At this point, all you need to do is loosen the hose clamp beneath each carb (but see the caution below) and disconnect the two electric plugs for the wires connected near the left front carb. You will find both of these plugs right up next to the frame under the large main wire bundle. The white two-wire plug is for the carb heaters, and the black triangular three-wire plug is the throttle position sensor. With the hose clamps below all four carbs loose, you can pull straight up on the assembly on each side to "pop" them loose from the intake manifolds (and this usually takes a lot of force!). With the carb assembly loose it slides straight out the left side. I generally wait until this point when the carbs are part way out to disconnect the throttle cables - access is much easier. Just loosen the long nut on each cable to allow it to slip off the bracket - as long as you don't move the small nut, the cables adjustment will not change. CAUTION! The screws on the hose clamps on the bottom of each carb are VERY soft metal. In addition, those clamps each have a metal collar to prevent you from over tightening them on the rubber boot. On most of the bikes I have worked on, at least one of those screws has been frozen so hard that the head stripped out, requiring me to drill it off to remove the clamp. If you have this same problem, stuff a rag under the clamp before you drill it off so you don't loose that little collar. The screw can then be replaced with any standard 4mm screw from the hardware store. With the carbs out, you probably should stuff a paper towel in each intake manifold to prevent anything from accidentally disappearing down there while you are working on the bike. Remove the chrome covers on the cylinder heads. Remove the plastic wire tray under the frame in front of the battery cover. This is held on by one 10mm bolt on the left side of the frame and a screw under all those hoses in front of the battery. Once that tray is off, pull the disconnected vent hoses out the back to get some needed working room above the rear valve cover. Finally, the last thing to take off before you can actually remove the valve covers is the rubber hose for the water line to the rear cylinder head (no need to take the front one off). You will need to remove the two plugs/covers in the center of the left crankcase cover to turn the engine, so now is a good time to do that. The two #3 philips-head screws are generally REAL tight, so make sure you use the correct size screwdriver to not bugger them. With the screws out, just use a very small screwdriver to work the cover back and forth on the O-ring to get it to pop off. There is a thin metal plate that will fall out as soon as the cover comes loose - it just goes back in with the ridge facing the crank, and you usually will not need to replace the O-rings on the covers. And now for the valve covers! Four flat allen-head bolts on each and they will pop off without too much effort. The gaskets are thick rubber, and they overlap a hollow cavity at the corner of each head. Just use your finger to pull of that rubber corner and then you can put a small screwdriver under there and catch the edge of the valve cover to pry it up. The rear cover will be difficult to get off, even after everything you have already removed! But just raise it as high as you can against the fuel line or other wire bundles still hanging below the frame and kinda rotate it forward to clear the cam chain. The front cover has lots of top clearance, but you need to take it out the right side to clear the water hose you left in place. FINALLY - ready to actually start checking valve clearance! MEASURING THE VALVE CLEARANCE: You can approach the measurement of the valve clearance two ways - some folks prefer to just turn the engine until they see the cam lobe pointing up for whatever valve they are checking, but I prefer to follow the more common practice of setting a piston at TDC on the compression stroke, then checking all valves for that cylinder (this is also the method from the service manual). But here is a little clue - don't get too hung up on believing everything in the service manual! There is a note in several places that tells you "TDC on the compression stroke can be found when the camshaft lobes are turned away from each other." NOT SO!!! While true for the front two cylinders, the cam lobes on the rear two cylinders will NEVER point away from each other! Seems weird to me, as I really expected the valve timing to show the identical relationship between the cams on all the cylinders for the same engine, but the facts show different. And before anyone asks, I did check my valve timing according to the manual and the index marks on the cams, and all four cams were correct. Anyway, back to the measurement. Start by turning the engine counterclockwise until you see the valves on #1 cylinder (left rear) all closed, then watch for the timing mark on the generator rotor through the observation hole to align with the mark on the crankcase cover. It is not necessary for it to be exactly perfect to measure the valves. Now you can check the clearance on both intake and both exhaust valves for #1. Since you are dealing with four valves at a time, it is helpful to write down the clearance you measure so you don't have to re-check them over and over again! If any valves need to be adjusted, I explain this in the next section. After completing the measurement and/or adjustment for #1, if you turn the crank 180 degrees, cylinder #3 (right rear) will be at TDC and ready to check (just put the socket on the crankshaft with the handle pointing to the rear and turn it counterclockwise until the handle points forward - can't get much easier than that!). When you are done with #3, turn the crank 180 degrees again, then start watching for a second timing mark to line up on the generator rotor 70 degrees later (a little less than 1/4 of a turn), now #2 is at TDC and ready to check. Finally, after checking/adjusting #2, just turn the crank 180 degrees one more time and #4 will be at TDC and ready to check. When you are done with #4, turning the crank just 110 degrees (slightly more than 1/4 turn) puts #1 back at TDC to start over. After you have made adjustments to any valve, I strongly recommend you turn the engine through several turns to ensure the valve shims are fully seated and measure them again to see if the final clearance is what you want. I found I needed to change the shims several times on some valves to get it right. By going through the 1, 3, 2, 4 sequence several times you get the chance to double-check all your measurements, as well as re-check the ones you changed. CHANGING THE VALVE CLEARANCE: Note: You will find a second person to help turn the engine VERY helpful here, especially when working on #3 and #4! To adjust the clearance you need to remove the existing shim and replace it with one of a more appropriate thickness. The majority of changes will be to a thinner shim, but you won't have any idea what the needed size will be until you get the existing shim out. Getting the tappet adjusting tool inserted the first time can be a little tricky. It can be inserted from either side of the cam, depending on which side you want to pull the shim from. The first thing you do is turn the crank in either direction so that the cam lobe is pointing AWAY from the side where you plan to insert the tool. Next, before you insert the tool, use your fingertip to turn both shim buckets until one of the open notches is where you can reach it with your small screwdriver - this is where you will need to pry up the old shim to break the suction of the oil film (and that can be tough to do). To insert the tool, try to rotate the short end under the cam to depress the buckets. You won't get it very far just with your fingers, so slowly turn the crank in the proper direction to let the cam finish turning the tool into place (while keeping some pressure on the long arm of the tool to make it move). You will want to make sure the tool is turned all the way until the long arm touches the side of the head or you won't have enough clearance to pull out the old shim. Now that the tool is in place, reach in with that little screwdriver and pry up on the bottom edge of the shim - the suction of the oil film will be STRONG, so don't be surprised if you have a tough time getting each shim to pop up. Once it does pop up, you can either grab it with tweezers or a magnet to pull it out. Turn it over and note the number on the bottom (they should always be installed with the number down). Replacement shims are only available in .05mm increments (such as 260, 265, and 270), but the ones you pull out might be be anything (such as 269 or 272). That is why you will find some odd numbers in the shim kit - they came out of someone else's bike. To decide what shim to put back in, you need to know what the clearance was before you removed it (remember, I said to write it down)! The shop manual has a really neat chart that lets you just look along one axis to find the number on your current shim, then just look down the side to find the clearance you measured - where the two lines intersect, that is the new shim number you need. It works pretty good, but make sure you look at the right chart (they are different for intake and exhaust)! If you try and do this job without having a shim kit, those charts are really the best way to decide which shims you need to buy. A less formal but more natural way is to just look at the number of the current shim, think about how much you need to change it (was that valve just a little tight, or a lot tight?), and then choose a slightly thinner or thicker shim that you think might be in the ballpark. For example, if you pull out a 273 shim and the valve was just a tad too tight, you might want to try a 270, but if it seemed quite a bit lower than the minimum spec, better go straight to the 265. No matter how you selected the new shim size, it is very important to turn the engine over several times and then re-check the clearance to see if your guess was correct - even using the charts leaves room for error. Putting it all back Together: Just a few notes here on reassembling the bike - most everything will just be a reverse of the disassembly process, but there are a few pointers to help you. Valve Cover Gaskets: These are very thick rubber with big half-circle "lumps" at the ends of each camshaft. They only go on ONE way. They are flat on the bottom, and the top has a ridge that fits into the groove on the valve cover. But it does not fit tight enough in the groove to hold it in place while you put the cover back. No matter, though, since there is not enough clearance to get the cover back on the rear cylinders with it attached - your only choice is to place the gasket on the head and then maneuver the cover in place. The original gasket seems to have been held to the cover by several spots of rubber cement in the groove, but there was no sign that a gasket sealant was used all the way around. Other than those glue spots on the cover, there was no sign that the original factory gasket had any RTV type gasket sealant used at all during assembly. However, when the shop did my valves the first time, they DID use a bit of RTV, but only on the lumps, and neither gasket ever leaked in 40,000 miles. For comparison, one person who had replaced the gasket without using any sealant did develop a slight leak at one of those lumps over time. For these reasons, I personally recommend applying just a thin coat of high temperature RTV to the depression in the head where those lumps fit before putting the gasket in place. Now look closely at the parts of the gasket where it is next to the spark plugs - on the exhaust side only you will see a slight squiggle or wave in the gasket, and on the cylinder head you will see a matching wave. Make sure you position the gasket with those points matching. Then look at the cover - notice the same wave? Guess where it goes . . . When you lower the cover down on the gasket, the challenge is to get the ridge on the gasket to smoothly fit up into the groove on the cover all the way around. If you even have a hint that the cover is not completely smooth and flush on the head, then the gasket is NOT completely seated in that groove. Take your time and trace the entire edge with a bright flashlight to get it right. Remember how much work it was to get that cover off; you don't want to have to do it again! When putting the front gasket and cover in place, remember they must go in from the right side to fit around that water pipe. The torque on the cover bolts is only 7.2 ft lbs., and that is not much. Make sure you have a wrench that has a setting that low, and use it. These are not the kind of gaskets where you can go back later and tighten them a little more if you get a leak. In fact, over tightening the cover on that thick rubber will just distort it and make the leak worse. Although the manual does not say to tighten the bolts from the inside out in a cross pattern like you would the head bolts, that is still the method I recommend. Air Intake Parts: Make sure you get that front T in place before you put the carbs in, same with the rubber Y that connects the air plenums to the T. The only thing to remember about the T is that it has a locating lug sticking out the front that MUST fit in the rubber grommet in the frame. The hose clamp on that rubber Y is located on the left side of the bike, with the head facing up. Initially it seems impossible to access, but just use a long screwdriver behind the wire bundles next to the frame. Putting the carbs back in: After making sure the hose clamps are still properly positioned on the top of the intake manifolds, slide the carbs in from the left side, but leave them just far enough out to make it easy to attach the throttle cables. Then after making sure all the carbs are centered on the manifolds, you need to push down on them pretty hard to pop them back in place. Try to put the base of your hand on top of the carb throats, not on the plastic diaphragm covers. Re-route all the fuel lines and vent hoses appropriately, and don't forget to re-connect the two plugs. Putting on the air plenums: Some people have had real trouble getting the air plenums to fit properly back on top of the carbs (and stay there when they tighten the clamps). In every single case I have seen, this has been caused by the rubber neck on the plenum being caught on the edge of the carb and buckled under the clamp - usually behind the carb where it is impossible to see. Make sure the clamps are plenty loose and rock the plenum a bit when putting it on. If the rubber is not buckled in there, the plenum will fit fully down on the carbs and not spring back up at all. Unlike the lower hose clamps, those on top of the carbs do not have a metal collar to prevent them from being over tightened, so just make sure they are properly set in the grooves on the plenum and snug them up pretty good instead of trying to play Magilla. I think that is about it. Let me know if you think I have missed something or you have any questions! Goose

Sounds to me like maybe your bike is just complaining about not being ridden enough - 2,000 miles in three years is definitely neglect! Sorry that doesn't help your problem - I really have no idea, but as said above, you DO have a warranty, so take it in. Goose

I gotta tell you Thom, this is REAL tempting to me! I'm retired, so nothing holding me here - in fact, wife and I are ready to get the heck out of the armpit of Texas (my affectionate - NOT! - term for the DFW area). We have been talking about looking for some space down near the hill country, but I was really impressed by Rockport when I rode through there a few months back too. I used to build them RV things in my younger years, and while my folks lived out of RVs for 30 years I was their primary maintenance depot! Gonna have to do some thinkin' on this one. Goose

Yes, four in one day (plus carb floats on two of them AND a new shock on another bike) was a lot of work - the only way it was possible is that we had at least three folks there who are accomplished wrenches in their own rights, and the others weren't any slouches either. All the bikes were stripped by their owners simultaneously, then we adjusted the valves one bike at a time, and the owner was left to patch it back together with help only when asked (or when the groans, shrieks and #$%^*& were getting so loud they indicated emergency attention was needed)! It was especially tough on me - I don't think anyone else was drinking beer, and I doubt you can imagine the terrible mental pressure I was under feeling the need to consume 2 1/2 cases in one day! NEXT time there danged well better be some other beer drinkers there!!!!! I'll be writing up the "lessons learned" and detailed procedures in another thread, and after fine tuning from the memories of the other participants, we'll put it in the tech library. Feel free to come on down any time (just call to make sure I'll be in town). And if you want to wait for the cool time, well, that's OK too - we see lots of pantie-waists down here in those months! :rotf:And the beverages are mandatory at this house! Goose

Any place that sells plastic pipe will carry the right stuff. Any pipe solvent/glue that is specifically labeled for ABS plastic will work the same, but that "All Purpose" solvent is the most common. Ace used to sell it in small tubes like normal glue, but I haven't looked for it there in a while. It melts the plastic and welds it back together as strong as it was new. It will work on any broken piece that fits tightly together and has not had other glues already tried on it. Use plenty of solvent and wiggle the pieces a little as you push them tightly together to begin mixing the dissolved plastic from both pieces together. BUT. . . this is IMPORTANT: You must make sure the solvent is fresh and runny, not an old can that has started to get thick, and you MUST make sure the repaired pieces sit in a very warm location for many hours (overnight is best) to evaporate all traces of the solvent from the plastic. If you try to put it into use too soon, it will easily come apart. Goose

Made it back to North TX a couple of hours ago - just a tad warm out there this afternoon! I gotta say what a fantastic host Tom and wife Debbie were for us down there - Ponch and I kinda took some liberties when we invited ourselves to his place as the central Texas location instead of either him riding all the way up here or me all the way to Houston. Tom and Debbie really took our invasion graciously, made us welcome, fed us, and never hinted that it was time for us to leave! But I can't help but comment on how little Tom seems to ride his Venture - he claims to have around 25,000 miles on it, but the scientific evidence is to the contrary! From looking at his carbs, I seriously doubt if he has bought his third tank of gas yet!!!! He's just a poser - the only thing missing from this picture is a trailer with a Harley emblem on it! Goose