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V7Goose

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Everything posted by V7Goose

  1. V7Goose
    Since the wires are copper core, screwing the cap on and off does not hurt anything. And there is no value in trimming the end. Those are both reasons why I said we are lucky to have copper core wires instead of carbon core. Now for those that may not understand the difference in spark plug wires and caps, let me explain a little. Carbon core wires were developed to reduce radio interference from ignition spark. The carbon core works like a resistor that dampens the transmission capability of the power pulse. The problem with carbon core is that it is brittle and breaks down easily. This is especially true at the end where it is common for the cap to make contact by turning a screw down the center of the wire. Another way that is used to suppress spark noise is with a resistor inside the spark plug cap or the spark plug itself. The cap on these coils is a resistor cap, and it can be taken apart. And that is where I found the problem. Below the resistor is a long heavy spring, and one end gets corroded (the end way down deep in the cap). On yours, the corrosion looked fairly innocuous, just a dull grayness on the last 1/4", but it was significantly affecting the conduction of the spark through the cap. This was shown on the scope by the coil having to push a 50% higher spark before the plug fired. Interestingly, I dismantled the two rear caps on my own RSV (and those coils are working perfectly), and I found much greater corrosion in mine than I did in yours! Pictures will be included in my detailed writeup later. The corrosion on the springs in my caps was more thick and crusty instead of the thin oxidized layer on yours. Until I cut one of these caps open, I can't speculate on what is causing it or what we might do to prevent it, but it is hard to imagine that it is caused by moisture. If we can find a way to properly clean way up in that little hole, then clean the end of the spring, I think dabbing the spring in a bit of dielectric grease before it is put back together might be a permanent fix. Actually, now that I think about it, that may be the whole answer - maybe there WAS factory dielectric grease in mine, but none in your coil? I remember back in the day when just about all cars and trucks used normal distributor caps, and some called for dabbing a bit of dielectric grease on the new rotor and cap contacts. I always found a nasty, dry crusty mess on those parts when I took an old cap off, very similar to what I found on the ends of the springs in my caps! Gonna have to think about this more, and inspect more bad coils to see if that spring looks the same on all the bad ones. I'd also like to take a peek inside a brand new cap! Goose
  2. V7Goose
    Jeff, I received your coil - THANX! And good news for you - the coil really had a problem. But the problem was in the cap, not the main coil. Since I have only received one bad coil so far, I can't make any conclusions if this was a unique failure, or typical, but I do have my suspicions. I'll be doing a detailed writeup on what I found as soon as I can gather a bit more info. I am sure hoping to get more to test. I was successful in connecting my automotive oscilloscope to the bike, and it immediately identified the problem with this coil. I don't think normal resistance tests would have shown the problem, but I have not finished that part of my analysis. I have not tried to replace the plug wire on the coil yet, but I am certain I can do that. I did find out that the wire is solid stranded copper, not carbon resistor wire - this is a very good thing for us, since carbon core wires break down fairly easily, but copper wires never do (the insulation will break down eventually, but not the copper core). I also found out the plug caps are easily replaceable, and I suspect they are repairable. More to come! Goose
  3. V7Goose
    It ain't the coils, but don't argue with them over it - as long as they want to say they are bad, it helps them save face and you get them for free! When they finally do find the real problem, just be sure to tell them how thankful you are that they also discovered all those bad coils, and maybe that was what caused the other problem! That should keep them from changing their minds about the warranty coverage for them. Like I told you in the PM, I'm betting it is either the non-power half of the ignition switch (those blue/yellow and blue/black wires) or a bad ignitor. Hope they find it quick for you! Goose
  4. V7Goose
    I just mailed mine yesterday! Was kinda snoozing along when I realized I needed to do more than just say I was coming. Wish I'd a snoozed a bit longer - would have preferred to just give you the money there! Oh well. . . Goose
  5. V7Goose
    Sleeperhawk, if his bike cranks, it cannot be the part of the ignition switch you are thinking about (the two large wires). But it COULD be the other section that just uses small wires to pass a ground to the Ignitor (see my post above). Goose
  6. V7Goose
    Quick analysis of the circuits (means no guarantee I haven't missed something!): Since the bike cranks, I don't see any realistic way the SCR could be causing the problem - any of the diodes that might be bad would affect the starter too. Fuel pump or the fuel pump part of the SCR can't be bad unless you had some indication the bike was starving for fuel when it died each time. Ignition Switch: There are two parts of this switch, the main part provides power to the starter relay, kill switch, coils, ignitior, etc. That part cannot be your problem or it would not crank. BUT, there is a second section of the ignition switch that passes a ground to the SS pin on the ignitor, and that COULD cause your symptoms. Easy check is to unplug the ignition switch and use an ohm meter to check continuity between the Blue/yellow and Blue/black wires when the key is turned on. If you HAVE continuity, the switch is working fine. EMERGENCY Stop Switch: (NOT the Kill switch) - the Emergency Stop Switch is #28 on the schematic, and it provides a ground to the ignitor on pin AS. I THINK this is the roll-over switch and it is normally CLOSED (meaning ground at pin AS), but I have not found that actual switch described yet to verify if it is NO or NC; however, the test seems to describes it as going from 0 ohms to infinite when tipped 50 degrees in either direction. In addition, if this switch is not working, the check engine light should flash 9 times when the key is first turned on. That also seems to support the conclusion that the switch should be NC. But if you are not getting the error code from the check engine light when you first turn on the key, I strongly doubt the problem is in the Emergency Stop Switch - problem not worth testing that further. In the absence of any more information on this, the test would be to find the plug for it (two pin with Black and Black/white wires), disconnect the switch and check for continuity. If the switch HAS continuity now, that means it is currently providing a ground to pin AS, so just leave it unplugged and try to start the bike. But if the switch is currently open, the test would be to use a small wire to jumper between the B and B/W wires in the plug (making sure you are jumpering the plug that runs to the bike, not the side that runs to the switch!) and then try to start the bike. 12V to Coils: The power to the coils comes from the Kill switch, but we know your kill switch is fine since the bike cranks. But wires could still be bad, so check for 12V at one coil to verify they are being powered OK. Pickup Coil: This triggers the Ignitor to fire, so it could easily be your problem. Only check is to unplug it and use ohm meter to check for approximately 200 ohms resistance. Ignitor: This is the electronic ignition module, so it is the big kahuna in this problem - if all the other items check out OK, then this is the thing that is killing you. Goose
  7. V7Goose
    Sorry to hear about your problems. It is unfortunate that the shop couldn't find the issue without your having to order all four new coils - it is extremely unlikely that anything could cause all four coils to go bad at the same time, and even with two of them out, the bike will still run! But as you said, it certainly does remove any question about the coils! Just keep those old ones - 99% chance they are good. Only two things will kill the bike like you describe - loss of fuel and loss of spark. If it was fuel, it wouldn't just completely die without warning - there would be some missing and hesitation as the first couple of carbs ran dry. So if it just died in mid-step, it has to be electrical. Can't be any of the interlocks, since I'm pretty sure that ALL of them disable both the ignition AND the starter, and you said it cranks fine. I wanted to get this reply to you quickly, so I haven't pulled the schematic to double-check the details, but the most likely culprit would bee either the pickup coil or the ingnitor (or any wires to them, of course). The other possibility would be intermittent fuses or the starting circuit cutoff relay (does a whole bunch more than just cut out the starter). I'd start by reseating the plugs on all three of those units. since your problem is clearly intermittent, it could very easily be just a bad pin contact. I'll check the circuits and post more detailed troubleshooting tests to isolate which item is bad. Goose
  8. V7Goose
    I don't know who told you to just start turning screws on your carbs, but I wouldn't suggest that at all. Goose
  9. V7Goose
    It fell off because Locktite eats ABS plastic. Never use it on any screw that even goes through plastic. That warning has been posted here many times. Sorry you didn't see it. Goose
  10. V7Goose
    Sounds to me like you might have had something stuck in a float valve, and hitting it hard a couple of times might have lowered the float enough for the greater flow of fuel through the valve to clear it. I wouldn't sweat it unless it happens again. Goose
  11. V7Goose
    The pickup coil picks up a signal from a magnet on the crankshaft (could be anything that turns with the engine) to trigger the ignitor to generator a spark when the engine is at the correct point is in the compression stroke. If it was bad, all four cylinders would have the same problem, so unless the problem was very intermittent, the bike probably wouldn't run at all. On our bikes, it is mounted in a fixed position, so the exact timing/spark advance is controlled by the computer in the Ignitor. Goose
  12. V7Goose
    PM sent with address Jeff - really appreciate your sending it! I'll be sure to send the cap back along with any good wire as soon as I can test it. One of my goals is to find a simple way to replace the plug wires on a coil, so that fits right in too! Goose
  13. V7Goose
    Well, #4 coil is right under the tank on the right side of the frame. Numbers 1&3 are mounted together under the battery - you can see them easily from the right side while the bike is on the side stand, not far in front of the lower shock mount. Never have looked for #2, but I'd bet it is somewhere under the tank, probably hidden by the wires on the left side of the frame. The coils are all different part numbers, but I'm not sure why - maybe different plug wire lengths? They cost about $55 each. Goose
  14. V7Goose
    There is one coil for each cylinder, but for simplicity of design, each coil fires twice during a full cycle of the engine. That second spark provides NO value to the engine, but it is what allows any tach that is designed for a twin cylinder, single coil bike to work on our bike. I do not know for sure, but any coil with primary and secondary resistance close to the stock coil would probably work fine. The big unknown for me is the electronic ignition (the ignitor), since there could easily be things about that specific circuit that I don't understand. The other unknown for me is the nuances of the igniton system that are critical to correct functioning of a modern "lean-run, quick-fire" engine over the older stoichiometric designs. Goose
  15. V7Goose
    That's a good question, and unfortunately, there isn't a real simple answer That's why I would like to get my hands on some that have been replaced as bad, so I can run a variety of tests and try to develop a simple test that might work for whatever is causing those failures. But I'll try to answer your question as best I can now. The biggest symptom from a bad coil is a major drop in both fuel mileage and power. But many other things can cause both those symptoms too! Even with a bad coil (or a completely disconnected plug wire), this engine runs very nicely up to around 85 miles an hour, where it runs out of steam on only three cylinders. If you suspect you have a bad coil, the official way to test it is with a special tool that is inserted in the wire between the coil and the spark plug. This tool has a glass tube containing two contacts that can be moved closer or further apart, and the test is to ensure the spark is strong enough to jump across a specified minimum distance. But this test has two big problems - first, few owners have one! And even if you do have it, it cannot effectively diagnose problems that can develop in a coil from heat or load. Oftentimes a coil will test fine in the garage, but break down under hard running. The other common way to test a coil is by using an ohm meter, but this suffers from the same weakness of being unable to show a problem under heat/load. In addition, it does nothing to test the high-tension wire between the coil and the spark plug. An automotive scope (oscilloscope) is a MUCH more accurate test of the entire ignition system, but putting an scope on a motorcycle is generally very difficult, if not impossible (depending, of course, on the specific design of the tool and the bike). Finally, a professional exhaust gas analyzer and a dyno can accurately diagnose the effectiveness of the entire combustion process in each cylinder under any conditions, but it can do nothing to identify the specific cause of any problems that it shows. That means it can easily tell you that you do NOT have a bad coil, but not that you do. And one more comment on a very common failure that is not technically a bad coil - the plug wires. But it fits in this discussion because our coils and plug wires come together (terrible design, IMHO). Old plug wires break down, all of them. This affects the quality of the spark, even if the coil is still perfect. The most common problem is loss of spark energy through the insulation under high humidity or wet conditions. Generally start worrying about this any time the plug wires are somewhere around 8-10 years old. The obvious symptoms are hard starting and poor idle, especially noticeable if the bike is parked outside and covered with dew. The easiest way to test for this problem is to start your bike outside on a dark and stormy night! Or at least a dark one - you can simulate the storm by just using a spray bottle to mist around the wires. If there is any problem at all, you will see at least a blue aura around the wires, and often an obvious spark jumping from various places on the wire to the engine. This test is best done on a cold engine, since that is when the fuel mixture requires the most energy for the plug to spark. Hope that helps more than it confuses, Goose
  16. V7Goose
    Uh, . . . No. Like I said above, everybody gets to have their own opinion, and neither I nor you have to agree with any of them. And I wouldn't dream of trying to disabuse you of yours. Your opinion is that your bike runs better with the AIS plugged. BUT, we need to be careful to make a distinction between opinions and fact. This response is only for the benefit of anyone who might be reading this thread and does not ALREADY think they know all about the subject. (I will note here, however, that if you actually meant that those benefits came from the changes to the intake or exhaust, then that might be correct, so I will apologize for misinterpreting your words, just in case.) The fact is, our AIS is a completely passive induction system - no pump of any kind that can have any impact at all on the engine. All it does is allow fresh air to be "inducted" (or sucked) into the exhaust header to allow unburned hydrocarbons to continue burning before they are blown out into our air. The AIS valves are operated by high intake vacuum to stop that air from entering the exhaust header at times when it would cause an afterfire. SO, the FACTS are that it is totally impossible for plugging the AIS system to have ANY effect at all on fuel economy, engine smoothness, "breathing" or anything else that involves the starting or running of the engine. And it DOES have two downside effects: Whatever was causing the afterfire to begin with was something wrong with the proper combustion of fuel in that engine. If it is not otherwise repaired, that problem with the bike remains. True, that is not a true direct downside of plugging the AIS, but it is a downside of the decision to do it, non the less. Disabling the AIS in any way DOES increase pollution. That is a fact that you cannot deny. You may not care, or you may decide to tell yourself that the amount of pollution isn't a big deal to you, but the fact remains, it is increased. That is a downside for all of us. Goose
  17. V7Goose
    You can believe what you want - I doubt you will do otherwise. In fact, in the absence of overwhelming evidence, just about all of us will choose to believe the opinions that most closely match our personal desires; that is just human nature. Personally, from what you wrote, it seems to me your "expert" may not have more than a rudimentary knowledge of the subject. You don't need excuses to disable it - it is your bike - do what you want. We have both agreed upon that several times. Goose Before you get upset with me again, please note that the beauty of opinions is that we all get to have one (and they all usually stink to somebody). No mater if I like yours or you like mine, we still get to have it. It doesn't offend me a bit if you don't agree with mine.
  18. V7Goose
    Wanted: Old "Bad" Venture Coils I put a temporary sticky with this message in the General Tech area, but since I haven't heard from anyone, thought I'd give it a try here too. I was hoping some of those coils that folks have recently replaced might still be laying around! If you have one and are willing to part with it, I will happily pay for the shipping, or just ride to your place and pick it up! Thanx. ================================================================== I want to get my hands on old coils that anyone has taken off when suspecting them to be bad. Interested in coils from any models, but particularly 2nd gens. I have an old automotive oscilloscope that I want to use to try and identify what the "normal" cause of the failure is, and if there is anything we can do about it. In addition, I would like to see if I can devise some sort of test that anyone can use (without a scope or special tools) to accurately identify a bad coil. If you have changed one or more and are just going to toss the old coils, will you please send them to me instead? PM me and I'll send you my address. You can just slip one or more into a free Priority Mail flat-rate envelope (no weight limit) for $4.95. I'll gladly send you the $5 postage. Thanx, Goose
  19. V7Goose
    Personally, I have no idea - never looked at them. I was just describing how a packable muffler was designed. But someone here will know, or check the manufacturer's web site. I have always found that good glass packs had a really nice, mellow, sound - some volume, but rarely objectionable - but I also never thought they were worth the effort to keep packed. Goose
  20. V7Goose
    Temporarily plugging the AIS (must do both front and rear air intake hoses) is a valid test to determine if the popping is being caused by a combustion problem or an exhaust leak. If the problem goes away, you have a problem with either your fuel mixture or your spark, if it does not, you have an exhaust leak. I find loud pipes obnoxious to all around them (no matter if they are on a bike or a car), so I have no personal experience with how open mufflers affect the RSV. However, in general, it is doubtful that enough fresh air could be sucked in from the end of the long pipe to cause the afterfire. A leak at the Y pipe CAN cause it, but not real bad. If the bolts that plug the exhaust gas analyzer ports are missing, or the header clamps are loose/header gasket damaged, it will be very bad. Mufflers that are DESIGNED to be packed (they used to be called glass-packs, but I haven't heard that term much in a while) have a removable central baffle that can be wrapped with a special fiberglass packing material that you can get from many performance shops. The "glass" breaks down relatively quickly and gets blown out, so they need to be regularly re-packed. Goose
  21. V7Goose
    Hey Mr. wrench, don't get your panties in a wad here! I didn't even respond to your post or your problem. I DID read it all, and it seemed pretty clear you already had your mind made up, so like I said, I'm trying to reform. And you certainly did not step on MY toes. Like you said, you get to make your own decisions. But many people here know that I have strong feelings about disconnecting the AIS. So when one of them implied that they would soon be subjected to one of my soap-box speeches, I thought I'd calm their fears. I do think it is wrong and irresponsible to unnecessarily pollute our air, especially when you get no value from doing so, but many people disagree with me. In addition, I know that the AIS actually provides some significant unintended value by letting you know there is something wrong with your bike, but many people don't care about that, either. When someone here actually WANTS help with this problem, I'll do my best. Such as the guy recently sent me a PM on it - he actually got "lucky" - he wanted to just disconnect his AIS and ignore it, but that didn't work (that was the lucky part). Since his problem turned out to be a damaged header gasket instead of a vacuum leak, bad coil, misadjusted carb, etc., disconnecting the AIS didn't help him, so he was actually forced to look further and fix the real problem. I let him know the likely causes and where to look, and it was a simple fix. Oh, and in my opinion, there is nothing "flawed" about the the AIS on these bikes - it works perfectly, provides a significant reduction in unburned hydrocarbons, and the bike will NOT pop or afterfire if there is not a problem with something else in the combustion process. But that's just my opinion. Anyway, thanks for inviting me to get on my soap box again! And you just keep ridin' and making whatever decisions about your own bike that you like, Goose
  22. V7Goose
    Yeah, I'm here, but I don't care. He has something significantly wrong with his bike, but he is happier just burying it in the sand. If you can't hear it, it doesn't exist, right? That's his business. One of my problems (and I've got a lot), is I'm stupid and make too many attempts to help people who don't want to be helped. I'm trying to reform. Goose
  23. V7Goose
    Stupid trumps the law every time. I this case, he simply committed suicide. I have no idea if he wanted to die or not, but he did make the choice to do so. We all complain horrendously every time we hear a story about some dumb cage driver turning in front of a rider, but what can you say about a rider who DELIBERATELY chooses to overtake a cage that is both slowing down AND has a legal turn signal on? "Stupid" is the only word that comes to mind for me. Goose
  24. V7Goose
    Your shock came with a gray plastic clip that sticks onto the frame right next to the negative battery terminal. Looking down on it, the clip just looks like a big O open on the top and bottom. The hose runs up the right side of the battery and the down-turned end goes into that gray clip. Goose
  25. V7Goose
    Unless you killed the engine and pulled in the clutch at speed, all you are really seeing is the indication of the idle mixture - which is always set way lean on any modern engine to meet EPA requirements. Goose
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