As a new rider: A question on Technique

[StormRaven]

In the few weeks riding I have a question regarding 4 way stops. There's one such stop on my way to school where traffic tends to be quite heavy going in all four directions, and moves with relative regularity. It moves in such a way that traffic maintains an inconsistent roll of less than 5 mph (speedo isn't even registering at this point) all the way up to the stop sign itself where the lead vehicle can do a 3 to 5 second touch and go waiting for cross traffic to clear the intersection. The problem with the intersection for bikes is that there are rumble strips warning of the stop sign ahead, but at the heaviest times of traffic, the line is already formed beyond the farthest strip, meaning I'm having to go over these strips at less than 5mph. I'm getting used to doing this without having the fear of the bike jarring out from underneath me.

 

My issue is, I'm not quite comfortable with pulling my legs up on to the pegs while doing the line crawl and usually have my boots skimming the air just above the pavement, not touching down unless the bike feels like it's leaning too far one way or the other, which a quick kick off, counter steer, running duck walk, or combination usually suffices to keep things balanced until the speed can come back up a little. Is this the right way to do it? I just get the feeling that there's too much that could go wrong if I stick in this habit, such as a boot bouncing off the pavement and winding up in the wheel somehow, or wedged between the road and the pipe; luckily the 'zuki is a shaft drive so I don't necessarily have to worry about getting caught in a belt or chain while pulling this off, but I'd rather not get into that habit either if I wind up having a bike with one of those in the future.

 

So, is there a better way to do this "stop line crawl", or am I stuck with my method and just have to pull it off as safely as I can? It's not something that was really gone over in the MSF. Yeah they did taking the bike down a narrow lane for about 20 ft at minimal speed, but that was done at between 5 to 10 mph and I do have to say that the knobby tires of the dual sport did help with getting the slow feel of the rumble strips under wraps.

[Snaggletooth]

Ride like a Pro has a video that covers the "Fricton Zone". This is the method of barely slipping the clutch at low, almost idle RPM's allowing the bike to move forward at very low speed. This is THE method to learn on these heavy bikes. You can keep the bike moving and balanced at a speed barely more than a slow walk.

 

It does take practice to master it but you will find it invaluable for slow speeds like you describe, low speed turns, and any tight manuvers.

 

In my opinion, duck walking is one step away from a mishap. About everyone will tell you once the bike is moving....feet on the pegs!!

 

You have a wet clutch system with is very tolerant of this method. It will not burn out the clutch....unless.....you use it in great excess.

 

Oh yeah, and keep your fingers off the front brake lever!! That can change your balance in a split second. A lil drag on the rear brake will help you control your speed. A lil drag ok. LOL!

 

so my

 

Mike

[painterman67]

as already stated use the rear brake as a drag. It will keep yopu slow enough to stay in your comfort zone. By slipping the clutch the motors push ( cant remember the name of this cyntrifical force I think) will keep the bike upwright and straight.With a little practice it becomes second nature. Go to a church or school parking lot and practice practice practice. It took me a while but it does work. this message also work for uturns and short radius turn around.

 

Hope this helps.

 

David

[twigg]

There is no real secret, just practise.

 

As was said ... don't drag or skim your feet on the floor. One day your foot will catch something and the footrest will break your leg. It won't be pretty.

 

All motorcycles can be kept upright barely even moving, again this takes practise. Some can even be kept upright when they are stopped

 

Slipping the clutch and using the rear brake to balance the bike are key.

[Guest scarylarry]

Find a parking lot that is empty and practice and practice more, it then will become 2nd nature to you...

 

This will help you on the friction zone..

[SilvrT]

What they all said.

 

For me, if the bike is not at a dead stop, my feet are on the floorboards and my right foot is working the brake while my left hand is slipping the clutch.

 

This does take practise but after a while, it becomes second nature. I guess I have been doing it so long, I don't even think about it.

 

Keep at it... you'll get it!

[muaymendez1]

Dont focus on balnacing and keeping the bike rolling. I found it worked better for me to not come to a complete stop and just see how slow you can go without feeling like you have to take yoru feet off the boards.

in other words dont focus on trying to put your feet up , focus on not putting your feet down.

i made this a game at every stop light while cars are stopped I just keep creepinga nd seeing if I can stay on and roll through without putting my feet down.

[twigg]

Dont focus on balnacing and keeping the bike rolling. I found it worked better for me to not come to a complete stop and just see how slow you can go without feeling like you have to take yoru feet off the boards.

in other words dont focus on trying to put your feet up , focus on not putting your feet down.

i made this a game at every stop light while cars are stopped I just keep creepinga nd seeing if I can stay on and roll through without putting my feet down.

 

lol ....

 

Don't do this on your motorcycle test folks ....

 

Once you have your "M" Endorsement, do it all the time

[BuddyRich]

Generally its only the last couple of stops at intersections like the one described where my feet come off the pegs.

 

Like others have said.

 

http://www.Ridelikeapro.com

[skydoc_17]

The "Friction Zone" method described above works well. Another method I use in "slow roll" situations is to tighten your lower abdomen muscles, and squeeze your knees lightly against the side cover/gas tank. Now, your lower body is "connected" to the bike, as apposed to just "sitting on the bike". To practice the "Friction Zone" method, find a parking lot, slowly roll forward in first gear. Now, apply some light rear brake, and use the clutch lever and throttle to continue to roll forward slowing the speed with a combination of rear brake, slipping of the clutch, and LIGHT usage of the throttle while "gripping" the side cover/tank with your knees and tightened stomach muscles. (NO need to rev the bike higher than 1500 RPMS, higher than that and you are overheating the clutch!) Once mastered, you should be able to stop the bike with your feet up, and if the bike starts to lean, a small amount of throttle, the slipping of the clutch, and the light application of the rear brake will allow you to start moving forward again. As long as the bike is moving forward, the "Gyroscopic Affect" of the wheels spinning will keep the bike from falling over. The skill is to use the rear brake, the clutch, and light throttle to slow the bike to the slowest forward motion possible, with your feet up. If the bike starts to lean to far to one side or the other, stomp your foot to the ground on the leaning side, give it the gas, and the bike will stand straight up as you pull away.

Earl

[saddlebum]

The friction zone method as has been metioned is a good thing to practice. One thing that has not been metioned however is that while using this method some bikes require that you keep the revs up while slip riding the clutch.

Another method I like to practice is to bring the bike to a dead stop with the rear brakes while maintaining balance with your feet on the pegs. just when you feel you are about to loose balance ease off the brake a bit bring up the RPM and slip the clutch to just get a bit of forward movement. and once you do using the rear brake bring the bike to another stop, continuing to try holding your balance.You will be amazed at how quickly you will regain your balance . After a while you will find yourself able to make a series of short little stops and starts that amount to nothing more than a very slow crawl. But practice in a parking lot first as much as possible.

 

When I first learned to ride back in the early seventies I was told by an old guy that anyone can ride fast but it takes skill to ride very slow.

[KiteSquid]

In the few weeks riding I have a question regarding 4 way stops. There's one such stop on my way to school where traffic tends to be quite heavy going in all four directions, and moves with relative regularity. It moves in such a way that traffic maintains an inconsistent roll of less than 5 mph (speedo isn't even registering at this point) all the way up to the stop sign itself where the lead vehicle can do a 3 to 5 second touch and go waiting for cross traffic to clear the intersection. The problem with the intersection for bikes is that there are rumble strips warning of the stop sign ahead, but at the heaviest times of traffic, the line is already formed beyond the farthest strip, meaning I'm having to go over these strips at less than 5mph. I'm getting used to doing this without having the fear of the bike jarring out from underneath me.

 

My issue is, I'm not quite comfortable with pulling my legs up on to the pegs while doing the line crawl and usually have my boots skimming the air just above the pavement, not touching down unless the bike feels like it's leaning too far one way or the other, which a quick kick off, counter steer, running duck walk, or combination usually suffices to keep things balanced until the speed can come back up a little. Is this the right way to do it?

 

NO as you get used to keeping your feet off of the pegs, and so subconsciously you may not move your feet onto the pegs and encounter a road hazard and break your foot. I have seen it happen!!!!!!!!!!

 

I just get the feeling that there's too much that could go wrong if I stick in this habit, such as a boot bouncing off the pavement and winding up in the wheel somehow, or wedged between the road and the pipe; luckily the 'zuki is a shaft drive so I don't necessarily have to worry about getting caught in a belt or chain while pulling this off, but I'd rather not get into that habit either if I wind up having a bike with one of those in the future.

 

So, is there a better way to do this "stop line crawl", or am I stuck with my method and just have to pull it off as safely as I can? ?

 

you need to practice the "slow ride"

 

If you need motivation get a copy of the current version of "Ride like a Pro" DVD. I am not affiliated with that company but they make a great instructional video.

 

It's not something that was really gone over in the MSF. Yeah they did taking the bike down a narrow lane for about 20 ft at minimal speed, but that was done at between 5 to 10 mph and I do have to say that the knobby tires of the dual sport did help with getting the slow feel of the rumble strips under wraps.

 

Get your feet on the pegs/boards as soon as the bike starts mooving and keep them there untill you are at a complete stop. PRACTICE this at all times.

[bongobobny]

You can always stop before the rumple stretch and wait for the traffic in front of you to clear it and then cross it and stop again at the other side of it. It's still going to take the same amount of time to clear the intersection anyways...

[csogbk]

When I went to police motor school one of the first things we did was find and learn the friction zone. The instructors placed bales of hay against a guard rail on a slight slope on the course. We backed the rear of the bike gently into the bale of hay, front facing upslope and over and over released the clutch just enough to find the "friction zone". Works like a charm!

[jointventure]

As others have said, when you have feet off the pegs while moving, you are not in control. And using the frt brake at slow speeds could be bad. Finding your bike's friction zone is the key to slow manuevers. In '09 I returned to riding after 23 yrs of not being on a bike. I bought a '09 HD Iron 883 to "get my feet wet" (and my butt sore) and last summer I bought my Venture. The technique of using your rear brake and friction zone will allow you to ride any bike out there, make you a lot more confident in traffic, and make you a safer rider....which is when it becomes fun and not so much work. Have you been to any of the MSF courses?? They will help a great deal.

 

I did, however, find out on the second day I had the Venture that the Earth's gravitational field is less forgiving for a Venture than a Sportster. But that's a story for MD.

[camos]

Practicing what has already been mentioned will get you there but in the mean time when you need to put a foot down because you have lost your balance make it a quick dab then back on the peg. Put your foot down forward and and the bike's motion will bring your leg to vertical by the time you lift it. Otherwise your foot can get caught up in the kick stand or saddle bags. You may also find a little body "English" will help fine tune your balance.

[GAWildKat]

StormRaven's unavailable right now (ie asleep before doing homework for programming class)

He did take the MSF course a month ago. The reason he asked the question was because this was not covered in the MSF class, nor is it in the book we got with the class. He could have asked the roomie if the roomie were available at the time the question came up. I have the Ride Like like a Pro V here, he hasn't watched it yet though. I think he'll be doing that today before class.

[Marcarl]

All that has been said is good,,,but you need one thing more......KEEP YOUR HEAD UP and look to where you are going. The second you look down, that's where you are heading and the feet need to help out. You learned this in your course, but kept it for distance,,,, it also works for short distance.

[Flyinfool]

I have a 4 way stop similar to what you describe.

What I do is to slow down extra early so that I can time it for my lowest comfortable speed to get me to the stop sign just as it is my turn to be there. My slowest comfortable speed is less than idle in first gear so I am using the brake and friction zone. If there is room and traffic will allow I plan my approach speed and spacing so that I can just idle in first gear and save the wear and tear on the clutch and brakes and my first stop is at the stop sign.

 

You really want to break the habit of dragging your feet before it becomes second nature. I have a riding buddy that rides about 15K miles per year. His feet are down any time the bike is moving less than 15-20 mph. It is such a habit for him that he completely denies it if you mention it to him. He goes thru 2 sets of riding boots a year.

[XV1100SE]

Another vote for Ride Like a Pro. You'll be surprised how much you learn from it even as an experienced rider.

[saddlebum]

Another vote for Ride Like a Pro. You'll be surprised how much you learn from it even as an experienced rider.

You can never be too experienced. . . . . .

But then again maybe you could, , , , but that may not be a good thing.

[22lyons]

You can always stop before the rumple stretch and wait for the traffic in front of you to clear it and then cross it and stop again at the other side of it. It's still going to take the same amount of time to clear the intersection anyways...

 

 

what he said!

 

leave some space ahead pick up your speed go over the strips and stop as usual. I will often do this in slow traffic. leave some space instead of feeling like i have to be close behind the person in front.

[StormRaven]

I'd like to thank everyone who shared their technique on keeping balance.

 

Today, I found out what the main problem was. It wasn't so much my technique not working, but the clutch was being too fickle to get a proper "friction nudge," leaving me to feeling too wobbly at the low speeds. Yesterday I just changed out the clutch plates for the Barnett Disks (thanks Skydoc!) and BOY what a difference. I can keep her rolling at 1-2 mph for as long as I want, feet on the pegs, with no feeling of wobblyness. Also, the 'zuki hasn't had such power or response since I first got her (though that could be more of a combination of the new clutch and putting the Cobra pipes back on, with baffles this time).

 

Unfortunately, on today's test run I wound up losing a baffle to one of the Cobras on the road. Screw head apparently melted through during the ride after I just put them in yesterday so I've got a bit of a harmonic ring in my ear now. It's going to be earplugs for a while until the replacement baffle comes in.

[awsmsrv]

....leave some space ahead pick up your speed go over the strips and stop as usual. I will often do this in slow traffic. leave some space instead of feeling like i have to be close behind the person in front.

Yep, that's what I do, too. Especially on crowded, signal-controlled freeway entrances. I even do this in the car. I've never understood why people have to be so close to the vehicle in front of them. What if they stalled & you have no room to go around them because the guy behind you did the same thing. You should be far enough behind that you could pull around them without reversing first. On the bike, obviously, you could stay a little closer, but, really no reason. Always be thinking ahead.