Want to Make a Toy Hauler

[GaryZ]

We bought a 24' Prowler bumper-pull camper last night. It has a bedroom in the back with its own door. I want to convert to back bedroom into the garage for carring my VR by enlarging the door opening and make the door a ramp. Any one see potential problems with this idea?

[Venturous Randy]

You need to think about tongue weights. How much do you have now and what would installing a ramp and then adding 800+ pounds behind the rear axles change things? You do not want negative tongue weight, ever.

Randy

[GaryZ]

Yes, that is why I asked the folks here. Maybe somebody has direct experience.

I was thinking of counter-balancing the tail weight by adding a generator on the front . . .

[Kretz]

Why not measure the tongue weight as it is now in stock form.

add weight in the back (three or four buddies will approximate your bike's weight) That should give you an idea of where to go, & what weight is needed up front & where to counterbalance the added weight in the back.

If you decide it's "do-able" As you do your mods make sure that the TW doesn't alter much from what it is as stock. You will have to add some weight up front to counterbalance the bike in the back. Only thing is you are upping the total towed weight all the time, does there become a point that it's just too heavy? Don't know what you're using to tow the trailer.

As has been stated you never ever want negative TW. You also want the whole rig to sit reasonably level when hooked up.

Hope that helps

[Flyinfool]

In addition to the tongue weight issues mentioned above and exceeding the GVW of the trailer and or the tow vehicle.

A REALLY BIG issue will be the frame.

I really doubt if the frame will be strong enough to hold that much weight. Many campers have frame issues just adding a rack on the back for 2 bicycles. I have seem broken frames from 2 mountain bikes on a rack.

 

Look at your frame and then go to an RV dealer and look under a similar size toy hauler to see the difference in the frame and suspension.

By the time you beef up the frame, and suspension and brakes to handle an extra 1200-1500lbs it might not be worth it.

[GaryZ]

All good comments . . . Didn't think about the trailer frame not being able to support 800lbs behind the axle.

 

My research has indicated that desired tongue weight is 10 - 12% of total weight. The specs for this trailer seem to put the dry weight at 4600lbs. A full fresh water tank adds about 250lbs. Misc stuff will add another 250lbs. Add the VR and it is now 5900lbs. That makes the proper tongue weight about 600lbs. These numbers are well withing the towing ratings for her Navigator and my C2500.

 

How do I weigh the tongue of the trailer?

[BlueSky]

Some years ago, I was thinking about a used Airstream travel trailer. I had always heard they were the best. My research revealed that the longer trailers, about 30' I think, had frame problems in the rear. The rear actually sagged on some of them, on the super expensive Airstream! So, I would agree with Flying Fool about considering frame strength. Travel trailers are typically engineered to be as light as possible so probably not much margin on the frame strength.

[rickardracing]

Not only the tongue weight but you are destroying the resale value of the trailer. You are backyard modifying something that a lot of people would consider that you are ruining a good trailer. If you want a toy hauler trailer, why not buy one already done?

Also, the door is pretty high which means you need a loooooooooooooong ramp for a shallow break angle. I myself am all for making things with my own two hands, but some things just should not be attempted.

I would not even attempt this...and I do some pretty sketchy stuff at times, but this, I would leave to the pros and buy a toy hauler that was purpose built.

Edited March 11, 2017 by rickardracing

[Woody]

those look like 3500 lb axles, so that gives you basically 7000 lbs. you figured 5900 lbs then add camping supplies you may be cutting it close. how much does the generator weight.

[djh3]

OK here is my .02 worth. Where are you planning on putting the door? You just going to enlarge the existing door and make it a side load? Outback makes a side load like that, but the issue that made me walk away from that idea is the trailer is only 8'. A regular toy hauler is the way to go. The floor is stressed for the weight, has tie downs and the garage is 10' long. Trying to get a RSV in an 8' space and then park it sideways and then to try and get it down a ram backwards. I also like making things on my own, but this is more work than its worth I think.

[Woody]

considering all the replies might be a good idea to just trade it in on a toy hauler and go camping.

[videoarizona]

I'm with Dion on this.

 

In addition...the height of the unit will make side loading a real bear.

I looked at a new toyhauler last week. Side load. 24 feet. Not only could I not get any of my 3 scoots over the hump between the ramp and the trailer body without bottoming out on the oil pan but there wasn't enough room for either of the Ventures. 96 inches doesn't cut it. If I could get over the hump without destroying the engine/trannie...I would have to go in at an angle and then the 89 VR would fit, barely, the 05 RSV would not. So no go for me.

 

Measure twice cut once.

 

Like the idea though....

[cecdoo]

I have been kicking around the idea of a toyhauler for too long? My idea was to buy an 8x20 rear ramp door trailer and fit the interior out to my design. That way you are starting out with a stronger frame design, 3/4" flooring, the built in ramp door and lower load angle. After looking at the pros and cons I decided to look for a good deal on a used toyhauler? and I am still looking. If you wanted to build one to suit you, I think I would start with a rear ramp car hauler. Just my 2cents.

Good Luck

Craig

[Flyinfool]

I work with a guy that is doing just that.

He ordered a cargo trailer and had them build in the windows, doors and roof vents, one of which is stressed to support a roof mount AC, to his specs with the interior completely unfinished. He is now in the process of building it out to a toy hauler / RV that will meet his specific needs.

He is making the walls thicker than normal for more insulation in them and is also insulating the floor and ceiling so that the AC does not have to work as hard on a hot day sitting in the sun or the furnace can keep up in the winter for deer hunting.

 

His main motivation is that his wife is in a wheel chair and not even the "handicap accessible" campers have enough room to wheel her into the bathroom and for him to also be in there to lift her out of the chair onto the pot. The ramp on the back will also make it a lot easier to get her in and out of the camper.

[GaryZ]

Not only the tongue weight but you are destroying the resale value of the trailer. You are backyard modifying something that a lot of people would consider that you are ruining a good trailer. If you want a toy hauler trailer, why not buy one already done?

Also, the door is pretty high which means you need a loooooooooooooong ramp for a shallow break angle. I myself am all for making things with my own two hands, but some things just should not be attempted.

I would not even attempt this...and I do some pretty sketchy stuff at times, but this, I would leave to the pros and buy a toy hauler that was purpose built.

 

My trailer is used and I bought it for $3,000. I am not financially, or mentally, capable of cutting up an expensive camper, and a folding ramp door is what I had in mind. For those of you recommending that I buy a toy hauler rather than build one; Have you priced them? Have you checked the used market??

[GaryZ]

those look like 3500 lb axles, so that gives you basically 7000 lbs. you figured 5900 lbs then add camping supplies you may be cutting it close. how much does the generator weight.

 

5900lbs is my estimate including a generator, a 1st Gen VR, full fresh water tank, and than I added a little extra . . .

[GaryZ]

Some years ago, I was thinking about a used Airstream travel trailer. I had always heard they were the best. My research revealed that the longer trailers, about 30' I think, had frame problems in the rear. The rear actually sagged on some of them, on the super expensive Airstream! So, I would agree with Flying Fool about considering frame strength. Travel trailers are typically engineered to be as light as possible so probably not much margin on the frame strength.

 

As I mentioned, this camper only cost me $3,000. It needs a little TLC on the inside, but it has good bones. It seems possible that I can reinforce the rear frame.

[GaryZ]

OK here is my .02 worth. Where are you planning on putting the door? You just going to enlarge the existing door and make it a side load? Outback makes a side load like that, but the issue that made me walk away from that idea is the trailer is only 8'. A regular toy hauler is the way to go. The floor is stressed for the weight, has tie downs and the garage is 10' long. Trying to get a RSV in an 8' space and then park it sideways and then to try and get it down a ram backwards. I also like making things on my own, but this is more work than its worth I think.

 

As I have already said, toy haulers are expensive when new and expensive/hard to find used. I was planning on a making the back/side door large enough for my 1st Gen. My bike is about 8' long and the camper is a couple inches less than 8' on the inside. I think it will fit at a slight angle, if the floor will support it.

[adventurer 08]

Having bought a 21 ft toy hauler last spring and using it one summer I would not try it. Toy haulers are set up different for the extra weight in the back and they are a lot taller, stronger flooring in the back , and have the inside tie downs in certain places. Your water tanks run under the bottom so your limted to where you can put them. Loading and unloading is a challenge in it self. That part is not fun.

[BlueSky]

If you have a welder and a cutting torch, go for it.

[GaryZ]

I have been kicking around the idea of a toyhauler for too long? My idea was to buy an 8x20 rear ramp door trailer and fit the interior out to my design. That way you are starting out with a stronger frame design, 3/4" flooring, the built in ramp door and lower load angle. After looking at the pros and cons I decided to look for a good deal on a used toyhauler? and I am still looking. If you wanted to build one to suit you, I think I would start with a rear ramp car hauler. Just my 2cents.

Good Luck

Craig

 

I have also been kicking this around for a long time. I have the perfect toy hauler designed in my mind. The entry door would be six feet from the front of the trailer. The front would be a dinette setup that folds into a full or queen bed. Under the seats of the dinette would be the fresh water tank and generator. The fresh water tank allows ballast to be added when the bike is loaded on the rear. On the sides and over the axles would be the bathroom, kitchen, black water and grey water tanks. The 9' - 10' garage area would be closed off from the rest of the trailer with a rear loading ramp. Starting with a 8.5 x 24' aluminum cargo trailer, it seems possible . . .

 

The problem is cost.

[GaryZ]

If you have a welder and a cutting torch, go for it.

 

Thanks!

Most folks just want to tell me "no way"

[Flyinfool]

Any issue can be overcome.

Just trying to be sure that you are aware of ALL of the potential issues before you are at the point of no return.

 

Do some more careful measuring of you 1st gen. Mine is more than 8' long. I park it in a 8' metal garden shed. It has to be at almost a 45° angle to get the door closed. Measure the exact inside dimension of your trailer. Now lay that out on the ground and set up some boxes or sheets of wood to simulate the walls and door width. See if you can get the bike thru that without touching the walls or door, and close the door behind the bike. You may have to make the door wider than what you planned.

As for loading, I would strongly consider using an electric winch like Rbig1 did in his RV build.

 

If after considering all of the issues and you still want to do the conversion, we will still give you all of the help you need.

 

As for total weight, there is a lot more "stuff" than most people realize, you have to figure in the pots pans silverware, dishes, cleaners, toiletries, food lawn chairs table all of the little stuff that individually weighs almost nothing but adds up to several hundred pounds if you put it all in a pile.

 

For measuring the tongue weight, you can use a bathroom scale, since the weight will be a lot more than most bathroom scales can handle, make a lever to get your reading.

Take a piece of thicker plywood about a foot square and put a dowel or rod across it to put on the scale to spread out the load so you do not damage it and get killed by wife.

Make a support that has a narrow top that is the same height as the scale + ply and rod.

Get a lever arm that is a little more than 3 feet long.

Put a mark near one end, then an mark 1 foot from the first mark and then another mark 3 feet from the first mark.

Set it up with the first mark on your support, centered on the support that you made,

Then the second mark will be under the coupler on the trailer.

The third mark will be in the center of your scale + ply + rod.

Use a pipe or 2x4 or something similar to reach up to the coupler, its length should be to match the ball height of the tow vehicle when the trailer is attached.

Now when you lower the tongue onto this contraption and read the scale, you will have to multiply the scale reading by 3 to get the actual tongue weight. This way a 600 lb tongue weight would read as 200 lb on the scale.

Set this all up on the scale to get an idea of how much your contraption weighs so that you can subtract that from the scale reading.

 

You can use this same theory to weigh the whole trailer using your bathroom scale. You will just need a longer lever arm, maybe a 5 : 1 instead of a 3 : 1 for the tongue.

 

PS Do not let the wife see you make off with the bathroom scale............

Edited March 11, 2017 by Flyinfool

[XV1100SE]

My first thought was great idea. I think what people are posting are things to consider when attempting to convert it. Someone may mention something you hadn't considered.

 

If you have the tools and the knowledge, I agree...go for it. What do you have to lose? The trailer didn't cost you that much so if you "destroy" it, it isn't a lot lost. But if you accomplish it, kudos to you ! To me, great idea but not something I would be capable of doing (tools, time)

 

Just a thought...if you go to a camping/RV store and talk to the mechanics they might offer you suggestions on how to do it safely (building it and using it), and even suggest ways to be successful.

 

If you do go ahead with it, I'd like to see updates on your progress.

[Flyinfool]

Absolutely, If you do this we need a LOT of before during and after pics.

If you do not post enough pics we will sic @cowpuc and the on you.