jonesy Posted January 2, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20082 I've never heard of this, that Philips screws on metric bikes are really JIS type screws, and that's why they strip easy. Has anyone heard of this before, not me and I've been horsing around with them since early 70's. Stripped many of them since then. JIS is Japanese Industry Standard Edited January 2, 2014 by jonesy added something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted January 2, 2014 Share #2 Posted January 2, 2014 It has been mentioned quite a bit before. You 2nd genner's will become more aware of the finer points of working on a classic machine as your machines continue aging. At least those that don't trade them for an HD. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=57988 http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46896 http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72767 Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etcswjoe Posted January 2, 2014 Share #3 Posted January 2, 2014 I have a few of these but do not have the need to use them very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 2, 2014 I only buy JIS screw drivers now. A JIS driver will work perfectly in a Phillips screw but a Phillips driver will not work well in a JIS screw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaggletooth Posted January 2, 2014 Share #5 Posted January 2, 2014 Been working as a wrench Bender for many years. Always bought the best tools i could afford. Lots of bucks on screwdrivers from top names. Bought a set of 3 JIS screwdrivers about a year ago for under $30.00 from McMaster Carr. Now they are the first ones i reach for. If you're working on any metric these are a must on your tool box. From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted January 2, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 2, 2014 So just what is different from the JIS and a std head. If I was to take a guess its the pitch of the slots or something like that. If you replace a screw on the bike with another "regular" metric its only the head thats different right, not the thread pitch/count? This would explain why I mangled most of the screws on the 305 dream and RD 350 I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted January 2, 2014 Share #7 Posted January 2, 2014 So just what is different from the JIS and a std head. If I was to take a guess its the pitch of the slots or something like that. If you replace a screw on the bike with another "regular" metric its only the head thats different right, not the thread pitch/count? This would explain why I mangled most of the screws on the 305 dream and RD 350 I had. Here is one of the better explanations. http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/step10/JIS-Japanese-Industrial-Standard/ The biggest issue is the root radius on the driver. Because the Phillips has a big root radius and the JIS is fairly sharp, the Phillips driver is really only going halfway into the JIS screw head before the radius hits. You are now trying to apply torque via the radius near the center of the tool and that is why it strips out so easy. The JIS driver used in a Phillips screw will still be driving at the outer tips to transfer maximum torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ion Posted January 2, 2014 Share #8 Posted January 2, 2014 And this is a clear example of how great of an investment those $12 are! Just saved me a bunch more on replacing every bolt in there!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_in_london Posted January 2, 2014 Share #9 Posted January 2, 2014 I think it's just all of you in the states that have this issue. Over here when you buy screwdriver or socket sets they come with inserts for a range of types of screw - at least two, but usually three - the third type is 'posi-drive' and they are most common in construction. You just get used to trying each bit in the screw head to find which fits best and keep the screwdrivers that work on the bikes you fix. Philips head screws - they're the uncommon ones now. Over here anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncledj Posted January 2, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 2, 2014 Well, Ya learn sumthin' every day. I've cussed out Phillips screws on metric bikes for 40 years. I never knew they were different. I just ordered a set of JIS screwdrivers on e-bay. Thanks for the info:cool10: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted January 3, 2014 Share #11 Posted January 3, 2014 McMaster Carr has a set for $34.14 plus shipping, includes #1, #2 & #3 sizes. http://www.mcmaster.com/#jis-%28japanese-industrial-standard%29-screwdrivers/=q2y48w Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin-vic-b.c. Posted January 3, 2014 Share #12 Posted January 3, 2014 was 9 when the first car I was wrenching drew blood... it was a lot of blood too. I am not telling how long ago that was but I have never heard of this either. I am a Plumber, Industrial Gas fitter, Power Engineer and a few other certificates I don't recall how I got and I cannot recall anyone ever mentioning this to me. Shopping time.... all those VWs I stripped screws on too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted January 3, 2014 Share #13 Posted January 3, 2014 I bought a set of T handle JIS screwdrivers when I bought my 1977 Honda 750k....still have them. I mentioned them to our tech's at work(Honda dealership) and they had no idea what I was talking about...one of them old feller things! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silent67 Posted January 3, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 3, 2014 I bought several Vessel Drivers from JDV Products, which is their North American distributor. They ain't cheap but they have just about everything JIS from stubby to impact and all kinds of other stuff. It's also a certified woman owned small business, ya gotta support the ladies you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted January 3, 2014 Share #15 Posted January 3, 2014 So where do we find good JIS bits for our hand held impact drivers? Thanks for the info Jonesy!! Puc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus1300 Posted January 3, 2014 Share #16 Posted January 3, 2014 I have used Vessel drivers for years and have seldom stripped a screw when using them to start the removal process. I haven't seen them for sale for years and thought they were out of business. Website is http://www.vesseltools.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silent67 Posted January 3, 2014 Share #17 Posted January 3, 2014 So where do we find good JIS bits for our hand held impact drivers? Thanks for the info Jonesy!! Puc Check out Vessel like I stated earlier, they have long bits, short bits, entire kits and screwdrivers with impact built into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted January 3, 2014 Share #18 Posted January 3, 2014 I rememebr my brother also telling me years and years ago there was a difference in "european metric" and "Japanise" metrics. While both might be a 14mm there was just enough in the Japanise bing smaller you ran a bit more risk or messing the bolt head up.We at the time had VW so we had some metic tools. But the ole Honda was still a PIA. I have on ocasion used a #1 phillips bit because it just felt like it fit a bit better. So far I havent had any issues. Thankfully Yamaha went to internal wrenching (nice I still remember that from my USAF days) for any bolts with higher torque requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mraf Posted January 3, 2014 Share #19 Posted January 3, 2014 It has been mentioned quite a bit before. You 2nd genner's will become more aware of the finer points of working on a classic machine as your machines continue aging. At least those that don't trade them for an HD. Gary OUCH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonslayer Posted January 3, 2014 Share #20 Posted January 3, 2014 Sounds like another payback strategy for Hiroshima to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairiehammer Posted January 3, 2014 Share #21 Posted January 3, 2014 So where do we find good JIS bits for our hand held impact drivers? Here ya go Puc: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Vessel-JIS-431801-Replacement-Bit-Set-2400-2500-/380748854776?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a66675f8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted January 3, 2014 Share #22 Posted January 3, 2014 Here ya go Puc: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Vessel-JIS-431801-Replacement-Bit-Set-2400-2500-/380748854776?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a66675f8 BINGO!!! THANKS A ZILLION Prairiehammer, I ran their supply down to 9!!! Gotta love this place! Puc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider Posted January 3, 2014 Share #23 Posted January 3, 2014 With the JIS screws on the old metrics I would remove them and replace with caphead screws. Never had a problem again. Even with the correct JIS screwdriver, they were just soft metal screws. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campfire12 Posted January 3, 2014 Share #24 Posted January 3, 2014 Grind down the tips a little on those old craftsman screwdrivers and the fit the metric phillips better. I did that with some luck back in my old copy machine repair days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanman Posted January 4, 2014 Share #25 Posted January 4, 2014 Phillips drive was invented to frustrate people, they are just as useless as a flat blade......To me, a better idea would be to ban all variations of the Phillips drive and use either Robertson or Allen head fasteners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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