Vickersguy

This was not a well thought out question on my part.. I've considered this for a bit and I don't think there is any way to use an IR thermometer as a substitute for an exhaust gas analyzer. While an IR meter is awesome for troubleshooting cylinder that is not firing or firing intermittently, it's not useful for tuning. The processes suggested by the folks who've replied here are better alternatives than fussing with a tool never designed for that task. Thanks to all of you that weighed in on this.

I don't have access to an exhaust gas analyzer which would easily solve this. I have a steady even idle at a normal speed. I have the pilot jet screws set at 2 1/2 turns out. Earlier I had them set at 1 1/2 turns and the idle was weak and the pipes quickly turned blue after a 1/2 mile test drive. I believe that was way too lean. Things seem OK now, but the color tune has a way too wide window for the "blue" condition, basically from 1 1/2 turn to 3 1/2 turns on the pilot screw. I will chase better mileage later with the needle kit from skydoc, and by reading the plug colors, but for right now I am looking at having a more accurate idle mixture. The basic have been covered. I have a hot spark on all cylinders, good compression, and the carbs are totally clean and synced. Perhaps I'm picking nits here. If so, let me know. The symptom I'm concerned about is that my venture requires several minutes from the initial start, before I can ride off on it. Once it's warmed up enough to shut off the enriching circuit to about 1/2 choke, I'm good and the engine is strong enough to ride. After 2 minutes of riding, the enrichener can be shut off completely. Prior to that, it stalls easily. So it seems clear that I'm probably still a little lean. I was speculating that the final adjustments might be done with an IR lazer thermometer. The parameters of of the process of getting useful data from an IR reading are daunting. A patch of flat black paint is needed so the reflectivity is the same on all pipes. There is the problem of the forward cylinders having a double wall and the rear cylinders having a single wall. Lastly, what temperatures am I looking for ? There are many other variables, how long and how hard the engine was run prior to the measurements, how long it sat at idle before measurements, ambient temperatures when the measurements are taken and so forth. The IR themometer is good if you have a cylinder that is not firing and spots that easily but can it be used for anything beyond gross adjustments ? Has anyone done this ? If so, what did you do ?

That frame was the score of the month. Pardon my being distracted, but that's your shop ?? WOW. I'm used to dim light, excess moisture and oppressive clutter. What an awesome setup you have there. You are not going to have any issues doing whatever you need to, as you get your ride back together.

Tell you what. I have exhaust leaks, but not from that location. I think I'll just replace the other gaskets and work around this. I was going to do a rebuild of the whole exhaust system but I'll skip this part till the collector fails. It looks good other than it won't come apart.

This collector seems almost like its welded to the rear cylinder headers. I pulled every bolt and opened the clamps and it just won't let go. I don't want to destroy it. I can't even figure out a good angle to hit it with a hammer. Anyone have a tip on this ? I've been yanking on this for two days and I'm running out of ideas. Who's had one get stuck ?

Perhaps this one ! https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/mcy/d/westmont-1983-yamaha-venture-royale/6843150013.html Save yourself 900 hours of aggravation and you will have about the same $ in this Craigslist one, that you'll have in the one you have now... If you're trying to save money, the path you're on will not work out well. It's worth the long weekend just to ride up and get it. Just sayin'. I can think of $850 to $950 worth of parts you'll have to buy, right off the top of my head, ( and you'll buy more than I can think of ) even if you get this parts bike. Then your initial investment is already at $800. This Craigs bike is $500 more than the parts bike, your current bike, and the parts I can think of that you will buy anyway and now you have your original bike to cover most parts you'll need for years. Here's my numbers: Your bike $500. Parts bike $300, The parts you will have to buy $900 equals $1700. You will spend more than that probably. (I'm guessing about $250/450 but I'll leave it out of this number game.) Chicago bike $2200. Difference is $500. Hours not spent in your shop. Probably 200 to 400. Your $500 parts bike will be a goldmine of spare parts for a long time. You can recover some of your original $500, selling parts off it you figure you won't need. And !!! you would have about the best looking '83 I've seen in many years. And, you'll ride it THIS year, not next... The ONLY reason to do this restoration, is if you like the complexity, you want the challenge, and money be damned. That's EXACTLY why I got mine. I like wrenching as much as riding. Maybe a tiny bit more. Your move...

Oh, Man ! This sucks. The locks need to be sprayed with a good break free type oil. They may still work. It took me two days to get mine up and running, but they came through. Mostly. Soak them and let them sit for a day. Don't bust the key ! Now you need to step back for a second. ( Ahem ) Busted frame. High-ish mileage. Trailer hitch ( extra wear and tear on the entire drive train. This includes the busted second gear, the U-joint and final drive hub at the wheel and rear wheel bearings. ). Damaged inner fairing equipment. Evidence of extensive electrical modifications. ( Some of the mods are good. The electronic ignition has been relocated up to the air box. That's a good thing and shows someone was paying attention ). I'm going to add a few things to the stack. You will probably be needing an extensive carb rebuild and new air filter, a valve adjustment with gaskets, and a fairing full of electrical and vent equipment. If you're going for stock, the CLASS system and assorted parts. Possible entertainment system upgrades, new speakers, intercom repair/replacement or a bluetooth system. You're going to do brakes, calipers, pads and brake lines. Master and slave cylinder rebuilds. Front fork bushings and seals and possibly progressive springs, steering neck bearings and front wheel bearings. Don't forget a full exhaust system gasket set. Tires. Battery. Water pump rebuild is a probability if it hasn't been done. Fuel filter, I got a spare I'll donate. I can't tell about the windscreen but the turn signal lenses seem to be missing. If I were doing that big a tear down, I would be putting grease fittings on the rear shock linkage elements. Upside. You have good plastic. You have good paint with the good plastic. If you are doing a restoration, that is priceless. It can't be faked. It just about can't be bought except in the luckiest of circumstances and at a high cost. The final presentation of a restoration is the outward appearance. As dumb as that is, it's the final element. I mean, face it. It's probably the biggest reason you bought this bike when you KNEW it had issues. The plastic and paint cannot be downplayed in importance ! Never say " yes-but " about this. Mechanical stuff can be redone, but not the original plastic and paint. It's as hard as finding NOS exhaust pipes. Cowpuc is wise. ( and kind, did I mention kind ? ) He knows where your project is and I agree with him. He's also gentile. I am not. You've shown us a bike with a broken frame, a shaky electrical system, a heavily worn drive train and a heaping helping of deferred maintenance. It has great plastic which is HUGE. Mine was busted up like a jigsaw puzzle in comparison. This bike is a heartbeat away from being a donor bike rather than a restoration project.( i.e. park a better bike under the plastic you have. ) You need a frame. Getting yours welded up without twisting or otherwise distorting it is a 50/50 shot. I'm fairly good with my TIG, and I'd do it for myself but I'd also be aware that the results could get sketchy fast. Remember, this frame is now bent. How do you plan to align the broken parts when you don't know where they were originally ? If it's twisted and you weld it twisted, it will load one side of the suspension links over the other and horrid mischief will ensue. 1 1/2 degree angular misalignment in this area is a big discrepancy. Work with Cowpuc. There must be a way to ship it without you going to MI. Also: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-YAMAHA-XVZ12-T-VENTURE-MAIN-FRAME-CHASSIS-BODY-XVZ-1200-83/254013759559?hash=item3b24666047:g:-QIAAOSwYshUZ~dj But it's probably a salvage title which has it's own issues. Cowpuc's would be a clear title without the insurance restrictions. If you're going that deep into this '83... Take kind ol' Cowpuc's offer. You will NOT get a better option or a better "price". The other option, actually, is to get another Venture, with a good frame and combine the two. It's not a bad idea. For the cost of a motor and a set of carbs off e-bay, you can have a whole bike for spare parts. Perhaps one with a lower mileage drive train, ( no trailer hitch ) a good frame and less plastic. It would be cheaper if it looks bad. You don't care, you have the pretty stuff already. I know you are an experienced builder and this ain't you first rodeo. I know, that you already know what I'm saying. I am only offering you a second opinion and putting the stuff I see, on the plate, to poke around. I've seen your 'Wing and your sweet 160 so I know you have the skill set. You are a talented mechanic with an eye for detail. But even if you disregard my perspective, let me give you this : Cowpuc has been into "83 ventures for over 30 years and was a professional ( for a living ) bike mechanic. He knows his stuff and really really knows the Yamaha Venture. He has owned 5 or so and has ridden over 1 million miles on them. He rebuilds the Venture like you and I sharpen pencils. If he says, " you need a frame " then, by god, you NEED a frame. Perhaps even an '84 frame that doesn't have this issue. I'm just an old guy in North Carolina yappin' at ya, but I want to see you succeed and have an awesome Venture. As a matter of fact, all of us here do . Restoring an old bike is like a game of chess. You really have to think about your next move carefully sometimes. One of my friends once turned his Triumph into a mail box at the end of his driveway. It was his choice and "best" move, at the time. Whatever your move is, the only person it has to please is you. And thanks for the pics ! They're great !

here's the air line to the rear shock. No need to spend $90. Save the box and resell the shock... https://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-86-Yamaha-Venture-Royale-XVZ1300-XVZ-1300-Rear-Shock-Suspension/152097457125?fits=Model%3AVenture+Royale%7CMake%3AYamaha&hash=item2369b703e5:g:UNIAAOSwq5pXPx-X These things come up. NO, don't buy it. I'm just happy to " play look " for ya. It's a lot of fun exploring a new bike.

My memory is that it's in the right saddlebag. Or left. It's been a long time. My '83 came with nothing for tools. The CLASS Controller shows up on e-bay from time to time. There were two up in the last few months. Don't buy the first one you see, and wait for one with minty looking plastic. You want to be able to read the button labels because the labels are impossible to restore. ( OK, they're not impossible to restore. There are some guys out there with the equipment to digitally copy the letters, size them and color them on the computer, then print them out on some kind of plastic laminate with space age adhesive on the back. I can't though.) Most outfits scrapping out ventures can't get the controller to work because they are trying to use it with the key in the "ON" position. It only works in the "ACC" position. They don't know this, they figure it's broke and they scrap it. Also the compressor system shows up between $20 and $40. Patience. You don't need one TODAY !!! I got a nice clean air pump for $30 with shipping, found one a week later for $10. It will all show up. You have time. You need time. You can evaluate things if you don't rush. List it out. You're gonna need a lot of stuff that you must buy. The trick is not to buy stuff you end up not needing, like I ended up not needing the pump! The pump story is an epic tale of frustration. It didn't work. It would pump and the air kept leaking out of the shock and fork. So I took it out of the bike, took it apart and cleaned it. I sorted the adsorbent silica for small particles that might jam up the works. I read up on the rebuild process on these forums and followed good advise I found here. Checked all components with soap bubbles for leaks. Only leak was from the exhaust port on the valve body. Cleaned the compressor, polished the valve body valve seats to perfection. No Go. Took it apart for the forth and fifth times triple checking every tiny thing I could spot with over 30 years of mechanical experience at my back. Put new surfaces on the plungers. No Go. Took the new surfaces off the plungers and tried again. Nada. I'm like six or seven times apart with these things now. I take it apart again. Looks perfect. I order the e-bay pump... Two days later, I casually toss the stupid thing back together, put it on the bike and try it. It works 100% It's still working 100% I have NO IDEA why. I have thought about it. I am not going to take it back apart to see what I did differently. For example: The rear brake master cylinder rebuild kit is about $44. If you examine the parts carefully, looking for rust, corrosion, aged rubber with oxidation and cracks and the parts come out of the inspection looking clean, skip the kit and carefully rebuild it. You saved $44 ! If you do this 30 times, in different places, you'll save over $1200 when you rebuild this bike. If you just buy stuff, have a knee jerk reaction to the UNKNOWN, you are going to spend $4000 . That's how guys spend so much the bike ends up being a disappointment . The easiest thing in the world is to throw money at a project. It's even easier when you have a catastrophic hallucination of all the stuff that COULD be bad and throw money at what you FEAR might be wrong. You are thinking you purchased the bike for $500. Nothing could be farther from the truth. You actually do not know yet what the bike cost. You have yet to define that reality. Do so wisely.

You asked about the tool kit and it's location. Here it is... And another more complete but rusty... https://www.ebay.com/itm/83-YAMAHA-XVZ12-XVZ1200-XVZ-12-TDK-VENTURE-ROYALE-OEM-TOOL-KIT-TOOL-BAG/382739722995?epid=1634023281&hash=item591d10b2f3:g:2MEAAOSwTxJcQnDA:sc:USPSPriority!28571!US!-1 https://www.ebay.com/itm/85-1985-Yamaha-Royale-Venture-XVZ1200-XV-1200-tool-pouch-kit-P7-11/123665911712?hash=item1ccb100fa0:g:xGsAAOSwVF1aMCqe

Looks like you have a lot of good plastic. One of my pet peeves is busted plastic, that has been badly repaired. Seems you've won on that count. The useful tip I've got, get one ( or two ) of those nut/bolt packages from e-bay. The one where they sweep up all the hardware from a tear down and sell it by the pound. Absolutely saved my butt at least three times a week, building up my '83, 'cause I loose fasteners faster than a drunk looses chips in Vegas. There's plenty of hardware on this bike you will not find at the local hardware store. Tote tubs. Throw the various sections of the bike it tote tubs. Easy to find when you get back to that section and all the fasteners will be with the parts you took off. Although most of the things you will be doing are ordinary, don't loose track that you have the opportunity to expand your own knowledge and expertise. Don't throw your carbs to the "carb guy ". Wrap you head around Bernoulli's theory of gas flow and figure out CV carbs for yourself. Guys here will line up to share their knowledge about this stuff with you. Not to mention there is thread after thread here, with commentary, on how to totally overhaul carbs. You might put in the CLASS system. It's pretty handy. You've got some work in front of you. It will be glorious.

I took some short-cuts rebuilding the bike. Didn't do master/slave cylinder rebuilds, didn't check for vacuum leaks, didn't check the spark advance, didn't fix the exhaust leaks, didn't do a compression test, didn't even look at the collector/crossover chamber. It's coming back apart and I'll attend to the details I assumed would be ok to skip. I got my " heads up " warning when the left front and rear brake partly locked in the first 500 yard test drive. ( Turns eyes to the heavens and asks, " Am I to be spared NOTHING ? " ) All four cylinders are firing but the power is not there. I will find it. I had an '84 20 years ago and I remember it had some snap to it. That baby would get up and scoot. Maybe it was because it was Blue ? Sad story about the blue '84. Sold it to my stepbrother who didn't like the heat off the motor and he sold it to a retired fire chief. It scared the fire chief and he parked it behind his barn in 2003. It's still there behind the barn. In the open, no cover. Nothing but scrap metal now.

Knew you'd need 'em. Glad you did them. When the brakes lock up, remember, a careful dis-assembly of the master cylinders will mean you can reuse the parts and skip buying the rebuild kit , for now.

Sorry, didn't mention that, Carbs totally rebuilt with new diaphragms, all jets cleaned and checked. Floats/valves are good. Never did a compression check. It only has 31,800 miles. It idles even and quiet, aside from the pop pop pop of the exhaust leak.

OK, back from the ride. One mile. First impressions: Nice even heat on the pipes, have to check with an infrared heat sensor. Popping on deceleration. Annoying exhaust leak(s) where the rear pipes go into the collector/resonator. Also some leaks at the mufflers. The bike needs two or three minutes before it will run without the choke full on. I can't even blip the throttle without a stall. I'm used to just running the first mile with the choke on but being able to ride away, right away. Can't do that at all. It's been a few years since I've done much riding (14) but the bike seems like it's running weak. The power comes on soft and I was expecting a rheostat kind of power. A smooth increase directly proportional to the throttle position. It does not stumble, but boggs slightly and gradually catches up with the throttle. I was expecting more, umm,,, snap to it. It feels like a 60hp. motor not a 90hp. Maybe I'm being shy about twisting the grip but it's like the bike needs an accelerator pump on the carbs. Perhaps it's too lean a pilot screw setting ? I fixed the minor issues after the first 1/2 mile check, locked brakes and the leak in the coolant pump (split impeller). I don't have the copper pipe to do the cheap fix so I'll have to get the exhaust gaskets but there is still the mild throttle response. I'm thinking the performance issues have nothing to do with the exhaust leaks and much to do with the pilot screws. Or perhaps my expectations are out of line with the actual performance of the bike. Just to cover the bases, the valves are correctly adjusted, carbs are synced, hot fat spark on all cylinders. Thoughts from the crowd encouraged.

I just got four carb rebuild kits and they came with float valves. Not a problem.

Thanks, but this is a ten foot restoration. Don't get too close ! LOL.

OH MY that 180 is SWEET. Anyway, for your VR, ebay is your friend. But be patient. "83/84/85 stuff is everywhere as long as your plastic parts are good. Not much in the way of excellent condition original big plastic sections, like a fairing half. You may have to wait a bit but the part you're looking for will show up. Just not on demand. Also, your best bet is doing your homework on this forum, rather than asking questions that have been asked before. This is a mature forum and the issues you will have, are not unique. If you search a bit, the answers are here.

I went to do a check of the right front cylinder plug wire, went to pull it off the plug and found it was sitting on the plug, but not seated. Well over an 1/8 inch off actually touching the connector on the plug. Maybe that had something to do with the failure to warm up like the others, huh ? Sloppy of me, that bit. I'll jump on her for a ride and see if it isn't all better now... It's clear to me new caps and wires would be a good idea anyway. They're probably originals.

Thanks to many contributors and in particular, Cowpuc, I've gotten from torn apart to back together. Another '83 is saved from scrap and ready for the road again. Now, the final part. The right front cylinder takes a bit longer to heat the exhaust flange beyond the touchable temp. The other three heat up quickly. With no tags and no helmet in this helmet state, I haven't gotten to really ride it yet, but zipping up and down the street it seems OK. I might have a slight exhaust leak at the collector but nothing I can see. It takes a full two minutes to run evenly without the choke. It will not rev until this two minutes are up. Then all seems normal with a little less power than I remember, however it's just barely up to operational temps. The carbs are cleaned and synced. Pilot screws are all at two turns out. ( I'm going to give the right front carb another 1/2 turn. ) So my question is... I have the colortune plug. The "Bunsen blue" range seems to be from 1 1/2 turns to 3 1/4 turns on the pilot air screws. This is way too wide for me. I compromised with 2 turns and may go 2 1/2. I have no access to EGA equipment so I'm thinking I'm reduced to checking the plug condition for the proper medium tan color. Any quick ideas on how to chase the pilot air screw to a good setting or am I already there for all intents and purposes...

Solder joints again. Six bad ones. All back together and seems to work. Pressure holding. Now back together. Sat in the captains chair and shook the handlebars. Loose as a goose. Have to tighten those neck bearings. Will this never end ???

I've gone through the Dis-assemble - clean - reassemble - fail - dis-assemble -clean etc. cycle five times. No progress. I have noticed that the vent and front fork solenoids have a snap to them when I decrease pressure and the rear shock solenoid does not. Perhaps I have a voltage drop through poor solder joints in the control panel. There are no obvious or even subtle flaws in the valve body. All the solenoids work on the bench. Guess I'd better check the voltage to them on the bike. It should click when I decrease the rear shock pressure. Well something should and I got nada. Back to the book...

It's quick to inflate, quick to deflate. The front forks hold pressure for several hours, very slowly leaking out. Rear shock deflates in 60 seconds. The reed valve in the valve body is holding, so that leaves the solenoid valve seats. Also the plunger caps. If someone has ever found new caps, I'd love to know the source.

Per Prairie hammer's instructions, I cleaned up the seats in the CLASS valve body. They are fairly clean and square now, the corrosion is gone and the plunger contact area is shiny instead of grey with oxide. The challenge is to fix the rubber cap on the solenoid rod. I'm thinking a thin skin, 1/64th inch thick, of neoprene rubber, or maybe 1/32 , glued on with that rubber cement used for bicycle patches. With the groove that spring pressure and age has left in the plunger surface, being offset from center and all, i doubt it will seal even after what I did to the valve seats. Ideas are welcomed on this or a source for replacement caps. They are 8mm. dia.

Per Prairie hammer's instructions, I cleaned up the seats in the class valve body. They are fairly clean and square now, the corrosion is gone and the plunger contact area is shiny instead of grey with oxide. The challenge is to fix the rubber cap on the solenoid rod