Furious with yamha, may never buy one again

[ediddy]

Most of you have read my previous threads regarding the rear end problems with my bike. At 28,298 miles a factory rep, this was the second time, was sent from Titusville, Fl and put the 5th rear end in my bike. He also put a new swing arm, drive shaft, replaced all bearings, and installed a new rear diff. I took it easy on the bike riding only one up until 33,000 miles. Memorial day my wife and I left on friday morning and rode to Nachez, Ms and came home monday. We rode 1450 miles and the bike was perfect. I was so happy because I thought the problems with my bike were over. Tuesday morning I stared out of my driveway to ride to the office and I heard the rear end clicking and grinding. Monday I called yamaha customer service and told them about my problem and told them I had been patient but it is obvious there is something wrong with my bike and I want yamaha to exchange my bike for another one. They said they would pull the service records and talk to the district service manager, Jim Coddington, in Atlanta and also talke to Ron, the factory rep from florida. They said they would call me back tuesday and asked where the bike was. I told them it was at my home but I would have it at Tallahassee Powersports first thing tuesday morning. I asked the service write up person to check out the rear end and to call me if there were any problems with the rear end. Yamaha never called me but this morning the service manager at Tallahassee Powersports called and asked what he was supposed to do with my bike. I told him and he said he would drive it and call me back. He called this afternoon and said he didn't get out of the parking lot and heard the noise from the rear end and said there was no need to go into it because he knew that noise was the same he had heard with the other 5 rear ends went out. He also said yamaha called him and told him to order another rear end and install it. He told them there was need to waste any more time and money doing that because it hadn't worked the other 5 times and there had to be something wrong with my bike. Yamaha then told him they were sending Al Hatcher, another factory rep, to look at the bike. The bad news is it will be two weeks before Al can get to Tallahassee. I met Al last year at the Myrtle Beach rally at the star exhibit. I talked to Al and when I told him I had a 05 RSV and was from Albany, Ga he knew about my problems immediately. He said there had several discussions about my bike within the service rep circles. I called yamaha afterwards and told them I had been very patient and waiting two weeks wasn't exceptable. The customer service rep said that was all they were going to do. I asked her to get me to the next level of service reps and she put me on hold and came back and said that was all they were going to do. I told her I would get with an attorney and see if I could take legal action. She said don't you threaten me. I told her it wasn't a threat that it was a fact. I knew there wasn't any need to get my self upset and argue with someone with no authority. She did say that when the factory rep comes by in two weeks, that after his inspection they will decide whether to exchange bikes or try to repair my bike again. In the past I have bragged about yamaha standing by me and never backing up when it came to repairing my bike but never again. I will spend the next two weeks deciding on whether to get a gold wing or ultra classic.

[boominup]

The problem is....it's not a problem with the rear end gears, bearings, or driveshaft. The fingers in the rear hub are DRY!!! I fixed mine when I replaced the rear tire last week. She was makin all kinds of clicking noises and grinding whenever I just moved the bike. A very easy and worthwhile step to take every time the rear wheel comes off. The only extra tool needed is a set of snapring pliers. Go to the Venturers site and look at the tech section for 2nd Gen RSVs and you'll see what I mean. BTW, my Honda GW would make the same Godawful noises when service to the rear hub was needed! Brian

[ediddy]

I know all about the dry splines and the yamaha reps know about it. The yamaha factory reps wouldn't replace a rear end if it was just a matter of greasing it. The district sevice manager for yamaha in Atlanta even called the service manager at the dealer and explained to him about the rear splines going dry after the third rear end went bad. But I guess you know more about it than he does. When the rear end goes out it screams like a banshee. I first thought the I basket that was replaced was causing the noise. At 60 to 70 mph you couldn't hear the radio if it was turned up to maximum volume because of the screaming. When the rear end was pulled the pinyon gear was bad. Besides I just had the 32,000 mile service and the rear end was greased. At 28,298 miles the rear was replaced. If you are telling me after every 1400 miles I am going to have to have the rear splines greased you are full of bovine scatology. I will not own a bike where I have to grease the rear end after every trip. That's not exceptable and it is pathetic that a company would even produce a motorcylce like this.

[Brake Pad]

I know how you feel brother, I had the whole rear end changed out at 12, 300 miles, on an 2007, the spindles have been grease twice since then. Now just returned from a 900 mile trip over the weekend and the rear end is clicking again.

I drain the rear end oil, every 5000 miles and check the gears for shavings @ the magnet.

I'm coming up on my 20,000 mile turn it, I'm putting in the shop this weekend, I'll have them grease the rear end again.

I guess its the reason why they have the 5 years warranty, It covers there A$$es from gettin sued:080402gudl_prv:

[buddy]

Sorry to hear the trouble you are having with your Venture. there are times you get one that is not up to spec's or just a plain lemon, but don't blame the whole Venture line. I been down that road before I bought a 1984 chevy 4X4 off the show room floor and it was a lemon from the get go spent more time in the shop than my driveway finally had to do a lemon law on the truck to get it replaced and my replacment went well over 200,000mi. We hope everything works out for you and don't give up hope either. Things will work out for the better and you will be on the road in no time.

Keep us up to date and let us know what they decide to do on your Venture.

 

Buddy

[KiteSquid]

BTW, the 2008 RSV looks real nice in the Dark Cheery/Raven paint.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[royalstarjac]

I could be wrong but i think the Lemon Law gives them 3 chances to fix a problem, then they have to replace it. Not sure if that applies to Bikes though. What could possibly be the cause of this? Surely that many rear ends couldn't be bad. Is the frame bent causing a mis-alignment issue maybe?-Jack:detective:

PS Here's a link to Lemon Law info. Look at the federal statute. This may be the way to go if you don't get satisfaction.

http://www.carlemon.com/lemons.html

Edited June 5, 2008 by royalstarjac

[KiteSquid]

Lemon Laws vary from State to State...

 

Check you State's Laws.

[1BigDog]

Eddie, threatening Yamaha with a lawsuit will only make them back off. It would put them on their guard and they would then be very cautious with what they say to you. They have plenty of money to take you on if need be. I know your pissed off right now but cool down a bit. Maybe if you call the rep back, politely apologize for the threat, without kissing their butt in the process, and let the rep look the bike over in 2 weeks. You went through this for such a long time another 2 weeks should be a cake walk. Once that time has passed and you have not received satisfaction, by all means seek a good lawyer. Also look into the lemon law.

Good Luck.

[GigaWhiskey]

Yea, what ruffrider said. When I supported a particular computer vendor and heard anything like what was said, I was to cancel support and refer the user to their attorney. This was noted in the users ticket and if they called back, they did not get support until notified that is was ok to speak to them again.

[qdude]

I agree that a threat will probably stop what cooperation you received. I completely understand your anger and frustration. I had a electrical problem the dealer couldn't find for over a year but I finally fixed it with help from the board. Finding skilled bike techs isn't easy anywhere.

The bike is good but not perfect and your bike has a serious undetected defect. Your letter indicates this defect is causing the rear end failure. Obviously whatever the problem is, it has not occurred very often with other people. The lemon issue is a more common theme on Harley forums, manufactures release 1000's of products and you were unlucky enough to buy the dud.

I do feel you have legal recourse but that will be expensive also, your best bet is to keep working with the rep until fixed then sell it. When selling I'd be honest and say you had to have the rear end replaced. I'm not so sure I'd give all the details though.

I would agree that from the perspective of a consumer they sold you a lemon. 3 times is too much. I read some of your previous posts and you've been dealing with this forever.

 

I had a Kawasaki Vulcan that had a leak in a vacuum hose once. It took me forever to find it because nothing appeared wrong. After I finally found it myself, and after paying the dealer twice to fix nothing, the bike ran great... But I had come to hate the damn thing and sold it. I'm sure it was a great bike for the next owner.

Edited June 6, 2008 by qdude

[GunnyButch]

Pretty rude response to the dry splines suggestion don't you think? Maybe you should just get rid of the RSV and not look back if you all you want to do is rant at someone for offering a suggestion you solicited. Just my .02 worth.

[AZSpyder]

I missed that response.

Maybe the dealer does know about greasing the splines. Maybe they also forgot. Greasing the drive pins weren't even talked about, may they need it. We don't know how loud the noise is. Without that bit of information it does sound like a lack of greasing.

The bike doesn't need greasing after every trip, no one said that. It could use it when it is apart. I expect the splines on a new drive would be dry, both the drive shaft side and hub side, nice new and clean. Now, did the mechanic remember? Clean drive into a mating spline using just the grease that was on the mate could last maybe 1500 miles, just to throw a number out. I wouldn't expect it to make it to the next tire change or service. You yourself said a bad drive "screams like a banshee". I have never actually met a Banshee, maybe they make a clicking and grinding noise? Otherwise first off sounds like a screwup installing the drive.

[debelt]

Pretty rude response to the dry splines suggestion don't you think? Maybe you should just get rid of the RSV and not look back if you all you want to do is rant at someone for offering a suggestion you solicited. Just my .02 worth.

 

Hey no kiddin.

 

I can understand the frustration, but the guy was just trying to help. The first thing you ought to know about Yamaha reps and dealer techs is that they don't know jack shi t about their product.

 

The problem with the "clicking sound" or loud noise coming from the rear end may just be a simple case of "dry clutch hub pins", not "dry splines". It's a matter of semantics, or nomenclature. You start talking about "dry splines" and you're really over simplifying the problem and throwing them off the track.

 

I had to have my rear wheel and drive shaft bearings replaced before they heeded my call to check for "dry clutch hub pins". And this was from a "5 star" rated Yamaha service department.

 

I'd refer them to the Yamaha Technical Service Bulletin (TSB M2005-015).

 

And print out this excellent instructional guide from another site and take it with you to the dealer bub.

 

http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/index.php?action=article&cat_id=002006&id=230

 

And then calm down with your brothers here who empathize with your situation and are trying to help.

Edited June 7, 2008 by debelt

[friesman]

I know all about the dry splines and the yamaha reps know about it. The yamaha factory reps wouldn't replace a rear end if it was just a matter of greasing it. The district sevice manager for yamaha in Atlanta even called the service manager at the dealer and explained to him about the rear splines going dry after the third rear end went bad. But I guess you know more about it than he does. When the rear end goes out it screams like a banshee. I first thought the I basket that was replaced was causing the noise. At 60 to 70 mph you couldn't hear the radio if it was turned up to maximum volume because of the screaming. When the rear end was pulled the pinyon gear was bad. Besides I just had the 32,000 mile service and the rear end was greased. At 28,298 miles the rear was replaced. If you are telling me after every 1400 miles I am going to have to have the rear splines greased you are full of bovine scatology. I will not own a bike where I have to grease the rear end after every trip. That's not exceptable and it is pathetic that a company would even produce a

motorcylce like this.

 

I cant imagine how upset you must be for paying a lot of money for what you thought was a primo ride with all the bells and whistles and the best warranty in the business.

BUT that really doesnt give you any reason for going off on a person was just offering some help, there is a lot of people who havnt heard of greasing the splines and doing other maintenance stuff.

I am thinking that with the frustration levels you must be feeling (and I would prbabaly be the same as you) it is prbably time to sell the ride, even if Yamaha does fix it, as you prbably will never like it or trust it again.

 

Take care and try to relax,

Brian

[flb_78]

Have they replaced the entire rearend unit? Housing and all? or do they keep replacing the ring and pinion?

 

I know that we had a rash of rearends on some loaders where the housings were not machined correctly and it was causing the ring and pinions to eat each other up.

[ediddy]

This is my last response. I have made most people on this site mad so I might as well make everyone made. Yes Gunny Butch is was a rude response but before someone goes off half cocked they need to read. Do you think yamaha would have put five rear diffs, two drive shafts, and a new swing arm if all was needed was to grease the rear splines. That's an insult to the intelligence of yamaha's factory rep to say all it needs is to grease the rear splines. Yamaha has spent more on the parts than I paid for the bike. Do you think yamaha would send a factory rep twice if my bike just needed the rear splines greased. Give me a break. When the service manager at the dealership even says there is no need to replace the rear end again because five is enough to know something is wrong. I didn't ask anyone on this site for their suggestions. The service manager at the dealership and the factory rep know what to look for. I was just letting everyone know yamaha's position of my problem. I thought everyone would want to know in case something like this happened to them. Someone else said they never head a banshee scream. Well I haven't either, but that was the service manager at the dealerships response when he rode my bike before the fifth rear diff was put in. I would never think that someone on this site who has never seen or heard my bike would be able to tell me what is wrong with my bike. Even if everyone on this site saw my bike in person and rode it I don't think they would know more than a factory rep who has probably forgotten more than anyone here knows about yamahas. Read what I said before you start responding. The service manager at the dealership said I had been much more patient than he would have ever been if this had happened to him. Someone else said that no one else was having this problem. How could anyone say that. I constantly read where people are having a problem with the rear end and whinning of the bike. That's it, I am saying anything else. I just wanted to carry on an intelligent discussion about my bike but some of the people reading my post didn't come prepared.

[AZSpyder]

You don't seems to be catching what has been said. Is there someone that can read the posts and tell you what they say? Do you have a friend that knows something about machinery?

Maybe you did have five bad final drives. Maybe the swing arm did fix the problem. What you describe the bike doing now, not the last times, not the screaming, not what ever went one before, now, this time, TODAY, sounds like grease.

Edited June 7, 2008 by AZSpyder

[debelt]

This is my last response. I have made most people on this site mad so I might as well make everyone made. Yes Gunny Butch is was a rude response but before someone goes off half cocked they need to read. Do you think yamaha would have put five rear diffs, two drive shafts, and a new swing arm if all was needed was to grease the rear splines. That's an insult to the intelligence of yamaha's factory rep to say all it needs is to grease the rear splines. Yamaha has spent more on the parts than I paid for the bike. Do you think yamaha would send a factory rep twice if my bike just needed the rear splines greased. Give me a break. When the service manager at the dealership even says there is no need to replace the rear end again because five is enough to know something is wrong. I didn't ask anyone on this site for their suggestions. The service manager at the dealership and the factory rep know what to look for. I was just letting everyone know yamaha's position of my problem. I thought everyone would want to know in case something like this happened to them. Someone else said they never head a banshee scream. Well I haven't either, but that was the service manager at the dealerships response when he rode my bike before the fifth rear diff was put in. I would never think that someone on this site who has never seen or heard my bike would be able to tell me what is wrong with my bike. Even if everyone on this site saw my bike in person and rode it I don't think they would know more than a factory rep who has probably forgotten more than anyone here knows about yamahas. Read what I said before you start responding. The service manager at the dealership said I had been much more patient than he would have ever been if this had happened to him. Someone else said that no one else was having this problem. How could anyone say that. I constantly read where people are having a problem with the rear end and whinning of the bike. That's it, I am saying anything else. I just wanted to carry on an intelligent discussion about my bike but some of the people reading my post didn't come prepared.

 

Do I think Yamaha reps would replace a lot parts they didn't have to trying to resolve the problem? Absolutely!!! You're giving these guys way too much credit!

 

As I said in my last response, the first thing you have to know about Yamaha reps is that they... "dont' know jack shi t about their own product".

 

I speak from experience. I could tell you horror stories you wouldn't believe. They will look for the easiest way out every time.

 

 

I love my RSV and truely believe it is one of the best bikes I've ever owned. But if anything would keep me from buying another Yamaha, it would be the after the sale support from the dealership service departments.

 

ediddy, at least try my suggestion, at this point you really have nothing to lose.

Edited June 7, 2008 by debelt

[debelt]

One last thing and I'll stfu.

 

The guys on these internet sites devoted to the RSV have forgotten more about this bike than the Yammie reps will ever know.

 

Why you say?

 

Because they eat, sleep, and "bleep" the RSV.

 

Most Yamaha techs hardley ever see a RSV, let alone work on them.

[boominup]

AMEN, debelt!!! My service dept. NEVER heard of the dry drive fingers problem!!

Brian

[dharnie]

I'll chime in here too - when I asked about the whine in my 01 RSV (out of warranty - but only 2K mi on it!) dealer tech rep manager said that he never heard of an RSV having any problems with whining noises. I thought that to be strange since this site is filled with RSV owner's who have this whine problem! But then again - how many RSV do they sell compared to the rest of their lower priced inventory? He did "accomodate" me by looking at Yamaha recall records via the VIN of my 01.

 

He also told me that it was $100 labor to install a rear tire and that I would have to leave it all day in his shop. He explained, to justify his price & time, that both bags and mufflers needed to come off - which was very time consumming. Lets see now - there are something like 4 bolts on the bag and 2 on the muffler - plus only 1 side needs to come off not both sides. It proves to me he was either trying to gouge my check book or he was not familiar with the RSV!

[BuddyRich]

I am going to kill this thread till the other moderators have had a chance to review it as it seems to be getting a bit hostile in here.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Furious with yamha, may never buy one again

 

 

Good. Leaves one more bike out of the tiny production run for someone who can maintain it correctly.