Jinksy4 Posted May 1, 2014 Share #1 Posted May 1, 2014 During the process of adjusting the valve clearance, a shim that was not seated properly popped out of the inside bucket on cylinder #4 exhaust when I gently rotated the crank. I felt the resistance and was in the process of reversing the crank to investigate when it popped out. I heard it rattle down as if it fell to the floor, but can't find it anywhere. So, I have to think it went inside the engine. Question - is there an oil galley that goes to the bottom of the engine under the cam gear? I think it is the only place the shim could have gone if so. Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etcswjoe Posted May 1, 2014 Share #2 Posted May 1, 2014 I don't remember any place where it could go down in the engine, it may be on it's side and hard to see along the valve train but if you heard it fall for any amount of time it may be wedged between the frame and the engine if it did not hit the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted May 1, 2014 Share #3 Posted May 1, 2014 I dont think there is a big enough gap anywhere in the head big enough to let a shim get down. That lil bugger is hiding laughing at you. Its going to be tough but I'm sure it is there somewhere. Just look. You said it hit the floor in part of you statement. So did it hit the floor? I'll bet its either right there in the oil gallery somewhere, or it may have jumped in-between the cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebrrg3rd Posted May 1, 2014 Share #4 Posted May 1, 2014 There aren't any oil galleys that I know of large enough to let a shim go thru, but if it was an inside valve, there is always the possibility of it going down by the timing chain. Hope it's somewhere on the outside. -Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil86 Posted May 1, 2014 Share #5 Posted May 1, 2014 You might have a look in the fan shroud for the radiator...might be trapped in there between rad core and shroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleadhed Posted May 1, 2014 Share #6 Posted May 1, 2014 I know for a fact that there are no holes large enough for a shim puck to fit through in our heads. Fish around with a magnet??? you may be able to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiCarl Posted May 1, 2014 Share #7 Posted May 1, 2014 Seems to me like it most likely got pushed over the gasket surface and fell down the front of the engine. Lots of places for it to hang up there too........ To get it down the cam chain tunnel you'd have to somehow launch it. I'd think you'd have heard a definite snap or pop if the valve spring fired it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 1, 2014 Share #8 Posted May 1, 2014 You might have a look in the fan shroud for the radiator...might be trapped in there between rad core and shroud. Had a bolt drop into that place one year and it wore a hole right through the rad after about a year of being in there. however I did find that bolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy4 Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted May 1, 2014 I have fished a magnet around the inside under cam gears and am snagging nothing. Looked everywhere I can see and not coming up with it. It seems there is a lot of space under the cam gear and I tried to get a magnet down as far as I could - 4 or 5 inches - and got nothing. I'm going to let it go thinking it is somewhere in the garage. New issue - a small corner on top of a shim prying slot in the bucket broke off on #1 inside exhaust. I found the piece with a magnet in the oil next to the bucket. It is a clean break with no cracks and functions fine when cycling the crankshaft. Think there is a problem with letting this go? Thanks for all the input - this has been interesting so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted May 2, 2014 Share #10 Posted May 2, 2014 Someone else recently had a piece of one of the buckets break off. Sounds as though larger than yours. If the shim is not completely seated in the bucket ugly things happen. I put the shim in, take a flat bladed screw driver and give the shim a couple of taps to help it sit down in the bucket. If its what looks to be minimum like a chip I would roll with it being you found the piece. On your shim. You could always pull the cam and look down there. Piece of wire through the chain so it dont loose tension and drop down and mark the cam and pull the caps. Mark them also as I believe they are machined for each position. Pull the cam and peak down there. But previously someone said there wasnt enough room between the chain and case. I'm pretty sure my FJ1200 was the same way. Had enough clearance for the chain but wasnt much else getting in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeWa Posted May 2, 2014 Share #11 Posted May 2, 2014 I have fished a magnet around the inside under cam gears and am snagging nothing. Looked everywhere I can see and not coming up with it. It seems there is a lot of space under the cam gear and I tried to get a magnet down as far as I could - 4 or 5 inches - and got nothing. I'm going to let it go thinking it is somewhere in the garage. New issue - a small corner on top of a shim prying slot in the bucket broke off on #1 inside exhaust. I found the piece with a magnet in the oil next to the bucket. It is a clean break with no cracks and functions fine when cycling the crankshaft. Think there is a problem with letting this go? Thanks for all the input - this has been interesting so far. Letting it go is not a good idea. This is a part you need to locate. Mirrors magnets bore scope. If it is somehow in the engine the damage will be significant. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9cottage Posted May 2, 2014 Share #12 Posted May 2, 2014 at times like this i usually get the grand kids around for lunch show them what i lost and tell them to go find it, surprising what they can find and it usually is right in front of me but i just don't see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy4 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share #13 Posted May 2, 2014 I dont think there is a big enough gap anywhere in the head big enough to let a shim get down. That lil bugger is hiding laughing at you. Its going to be tough but I'm sure it is there somewhere. Just look. You said it hit the floor in part of you statement. So did it hit the floor? I'll bet its either right there in the oil gallery somewhere, or it may have jumped in-between the cylinders. Thanks - it sounded like it was falling, bouncing on metal, but I didn't hear it hit the floor and my hearing is not that good. It may be laughing but I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy4 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share #14 Posted May 2, 2014 There aren't any oil galleys that I know of large enough to let a shim go thru, but if it was an inside valve, there is always the possibility of it going down by the timing chain. Hope it's somewhere on the outside. -Andrew Thanks for the info - if it did end up down the the timing chain void where would it end up? That's what I don't know for sure. I could take the bottom cover off and retrieve it if there was a chance it went all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy4 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share #15 Posted May 2, 2014 Seems to me like it most likely got pushed over the gasket surface and fell down the front of the engine. Lots of places for it to hang up there too........ To get it down the cam chain tunnel you'd have to somehow launch it. I'd think you'd have heard a definite snap or pop if the valve spring fired it out. Thanks - I did hear a pop. I'm thinking it did a belly flop down the timing chain void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy4 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted May 2, 2014 Someone else recently had a piece of one of the buckets break off. Sounds as though larger than yours. If the shim is not completely seated in the bucket ugly things happen. I put the shim in, take a flat bladed screw driver and give the shim a couple of taps to help it sit down in the bucket. If its what looks to be minimum like a chip I would roll with it being you found the piece. On your shim. You could always pull the cam and look down there. Piece of wire through the chain so it dont loose tension and drop down and mark the cam and pull the caps. Mark them also as I believe they are machined for each position. Pull the cam and peak down there. But previously someone said there wasnt enough room between the chain and case. I'm pretty sure my FJ1200 was the same way. Had enough clearance for the chain but wasnt much else getting in there. Appreciate the reply - I'm going to try and get a scope and hopefully not have to pull the cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy4 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share #17 Posted May 2, 2014 Letting it go is not a good idea. This is a part you need to locate. Mirrors magnets bore scope. If it is somehow in the engine the damage will be significant. Mike I agree - just need a beer day to quit feeling sorry for myself. Getting a borescope today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billmac Posted May 2, 2014 Share #18 Posted May 2, 2014 do you have cuffs on your pants? if so check them. never know where those little things fall into. No, get the kids out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyR Posted May 2, 2014 Share #19 Posted May 2, 2014 I've never had one fly away like that. Did have a pick tip break off and fly away into the the radiator while working on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peder_y2k Posted May 2, 2014 Share #20 Posted May 2, 2014 I heard it rattle down as if it fell to the floor, but can't find it anywhere. So, I have to think it went inside the engine. First impressions are usually correct, so it is more likely that it fell outside the engine and found a hiding place in the bike frame rather than make it to the floor. I have this happen more than not undoing screws. Also, the shim might not make noise hitting the floor, and is round and could easily roll some distance in any direction. Before taking any serious inside engine search, do a really thorough frame/floor search. -Pete, in Tacoma WA USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted May 2, 2014 Share #21 Posted May 2, 2014 There are also shim eating gremlins around. they are invisible, anything they eat also becomes invisible. I had the heads off the engine and on the bench. took a shim out and it vanished right before my eyes. That was years ago and I still have not seen it since. I was hopping that eventually the shim eating gremlin would take a dump and it would reappear somewhere. I have lost a number of things around the engine that have gone to never never land. The first time I was doing spark plugs, I just could not get one of the plugs started in the hole. I finally figured out that the PO must have dropped a quarter that landed behind the plug boot and once I pulled out the plug the quarter slid down an covered the hole. Point is there are a lot of weird hiding places for things to get lodged into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted May 2, 2014 Share #22 Posted May 2, 2014 do you have cuffs on your pants? if so check them. never know where those little things fall into. No, get the kids out. I started to suggest looking in his shoe. RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy4 Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share #23 Posted May 3, 2014 I found it!!! The shim was stuck in a bracket next to the radiator guard. The oil film on the shim had positioned it vertical to line of sight. Noway to see it without a bore scope. Thanks to everyone for the guidance and the HF scope works really well for the money. Also found a metal clip which I have no idea where that came from. Look forward to getting it put back together. Thanks again folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted May 3, 2014 Share #24 Posted May 3, 2014 Glad you found it and that the shim eating gremlins did not get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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