The auto dealers in my area used to ask their fantasy price for their autos and the first thing they wanted to know is if you had a trade. If so, they wouldn't talk about reducing their price, just trade difference. For example, if their fantasy price was $20k for an auto and they really wanted $17k for it they would offer you $3k more than their wholesale price that they were willing to pay for your car. Buyer went away happy that he got a good price for his tradein and the dealer got the tradein at wholesale. They don't do that any more maybe because of NADA that gives an average tradein value. The tradein value was inflated under that method. Now, they offer you their wholesale or usually less than wholesale for your tradein against whatever they really want for their auto. Most of the time, I don't like the process. When I bought a used Miata for my son from the local Ford dealer's used lot, the sales manager deserved an academy award for his acting and his lies that I had to deal with before I got him to his minimum price. I felt like I needed a bath after I left he was so sleazy. On the plus side it was a fantastic and reliable used car for my son.