midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Share #1 Posted June 6, 2015 There has been numerous discussions about tires on VRO over the years. But I wanted to share mine. I wanted to try avons and I did. My front tire sidewalls cracked with only 3k miles on it .Now to my rear tire, it had a little over 7k miles and tread was still good everything is ok. A week ago today we left out for North Carolina , long story short Tuesday we had a blowout on the Avon@ Clingmans Dome near Cherokee, NC. Now understand when I left this tire had plenty of thread left....It also stranded me on the mountain and 75 miles from our hotel...I was lucky to find the wrecker driver I did, he went above and beyond what was required, he helped us find a shop that had a CAR tire that would fit and told me if it didn't work to call & he would drive us to our hotel ...Me and the shop owner worked 3 hrs geting the car tire on & seeded & sealed ( that's a whole story in itself)... NEVER again will I buy AVON tires... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted June 6, 2015 Share #2 Posted June 6, 2015 Did the rearend lock up? that tire looks ground down in the pic. I have never seen any MC tire do that without some serious external forces acting on it. Glad that y'all are ok and nothing detrimental happened to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted June 6, 2015 Did the rearend lock up? that tire looks ground down in the pic. I have never seen any MC tire do that without some serious external forces acting on it. Glad that y'all are ok and nothing detrimental happened to you. No the rear end didn't lock up..... I'm with you never seen a tire do that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted June 6, 2015 Share #4 Posted June 6, 2015 Indeed, that looks suspiciously like a just a worn out tire to me - of course, I am NO tire expert though!!! If those cords are showing all the way around like in the pic - it just looks worn out.. In the pic below, notice the delamination on that happened on a Metz out in California - it seems like the rubber just came unglued,, I may be wayyyy wrong but it just looks to me that the Avons acually stayed together right to the end where these Metz literally fell apart.. This also may sound crazy and may not even apply to what we are talking about BUT, it seems like my limited experience with wearing out bike tires thru the years has shown me that the last third of wear on a bike tire goes by the fastest!! Like bike tire rubber is softer when it gets closer to the carcass - sounds crazy but I know one thing, I watch my tires really really closely when I get down to that 1/3 tread mark because I have been in exactly the shoes you just went thru and it aint fun.. NOT trying to cause you any more grief than you have already been thru Midnight but just wanted to share a different prospective is all!! Maybe some of these other varmints with their years of tire experience will chime in and set me straight as to what I am seeing here... Anyway, sooooooo glad you folks are ok - riding down a touring bike with a flat tire is a real nasty experience, YOU DID WELL and glad your ok!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted June 6, 2015 Puc, thing is it had plenty of tread when i left...over an 1/8 inch it went from good to the picture in bout 700 miles.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 6, 2015 Share #6 Posted June 6, 2015 The way that tire looks, the way it's feathered in, it looks like someone took a grinder to it..... What's the rest of the tread look like?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted June 6, 2015 Share #7 Posted June 6, 2015 Puc, thing is it had plenty of tread when i left...over an 1/8 inch it went from good to the picture in bout 700 miles.... I get that, THAT is exactly my experience with bike tires when they get toward the end of their life - its like the rubber just evaporates.. Have had that happen many many times thru the years but, I aint never owned an Avon so maybe I am wrong in your case.. My E2's (I loved my E2's) cost me an experience like you describe on more than one occasion - just wore right out in a matter of a few hundred miles - really caught me off guard!! I always chalked it up to learning tire wear BUT - your case may be totally different Midnight!! If you have a bad gut feeling about Avon's, there are enough tire selections out there you NEVER need to return to them!! I know one thing, I feel that way about Metzlers and would only mount one up under extremes - like I had just hiked in off the desert with my wheel and thats all the cowboy town dealership happen to have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted June 6, 2015 The way that tire looks, the way it's feathered in, it looks like someone took a grinder to it..... What's the rest of the tread look like?? not like that......... but the tread lines that was there when I left are GONE.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted June 6, 2015 well I've had really good luck with E3's and 2 reason I tried Avons, cheaper and I couldn't find any1 hat had an E3 at the time..Right now i have a 165/85 15 VW tire on the back and DANG it rides and handles great.. gonna run it awhile and see how it last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 6, 2015 Share #10 Posted June 6, 2015 not like that......... but the tread lines that was there when I left are GONE.......... With 1/8th inch tread left you were probably way beyond the wear bars on the tire to begin with..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted June 6, 2015 With 1/8th inch tread left you were probably way beyond the wear bars on the tire to begin with..... you may be right... but 7k miles don't cut it.... that's in the same class as 404's... UGGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great White Posted June 6, 2015 Share #12 Posted June 6, 2015 I've only seen that type of wear pattern in two conditions: 1. lockup 2. burn out completions I've seen similar conditions in aircraft tires and hydroplaning, but that's waaaay above speeds we'd be dealing with here. Not saying that's what happened here. Just that I've never seen that type of wear during "normal" use in 35 odd years around vehicles. Something to consider: once you're through the wearing surface of a tire and into the carcass, it's going to fail in pretty short order. The carcass is not designed for road surface wearing conditions so it burns through fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragtop69gs Posted June 6, 2015 Share #13 Posted June 6, 2015 I had an E3 do the same thing. The tire was just getting to the wear bar when I left on a 650 mile round trip ride, by the time I got to my destination it looked almost as bad as your's. I now swap em out when I see it nearing the wear bars. Getting a few more $$ out of a tire is just not worth it. Can you post a picture of that VW tire mounted up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #14 Posted June 6, 2015 I've only seen that type of wear pattern in two conditions: 1. lockup 2. burn out completions I've seen similar conditions in aircraft tires and hydroplaning, but that's waaaay above speeds we'd be dealing with here. Not saying that's what happened here. Just that I've never seen that type of wear during "normal" use in 35 odd years around vehicles. Something to consider: once you're through the wearing surface of a tire and into the carcass, it's going to fail in pretty short order. The carcass is not designed for road surface wearing conditions so it burns through fast. well it wasn't a burnout or a lock down ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted June 6, 2015 I had an E3 do the same thing. The tire was just getting to the wear bar when I left on a 650 mile round trip ride, by the time I got to my destination it looked almost as bad as your's. I now swap em out when I see it nearing the wear bars. Getting a few more $$ out of a tire is just not worth it. Can you post a picture of that VW tire mounted up? Jay I'm with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #16 Posted June 6, 2015 Can you post a picture of that VW tire mounted up? I will ....later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted June 6, 2015 here's the 165/85 15 tire i have on ... it looks more rounded than the picture shows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted June 6, 2015 Share #18 Posted June 6, 2015 I have had some experiences that when you get to that last bit of tread wear, it goes way faster than I think it should. Last summer going into fall I changed out the rubber on my scoot for the same reason as was mentioned. It was close to end and I sure didnt want to be in the Smokies and have it go bad or rain and loose grip. I went with Shinkos for cost, and to give them a whirl. I had run the MC II and got good mileage 17k out of them. I rode more miles then as opposed to what I thought I would put on the bike in the "3 yr" window of longevity for bike tires. How old was the tire you had problems with? It looks to be over inflated and run to death. Not saying thats what happened, just sort of what it looks like. On the car tire do you notice it feels like your going to "tip over" if you corner it. Sure looks to me like with the way the tread is made on a car tire it would angle until it gets to the edge and then either not want to lean or would go all at one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightrider1300 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted June 6, 2015 I have had some experiences that when you get to that last bit of tread wear, it goes way faster than I think it should. Last summer going into fall I changed out the rubber on my scoot for the same reason as was mentioned. It was close to end and I sure didnt want to be in the Smokies and have it go bad or rain and loose grip. I went with Shinkos for cost, and to give them a whirl. I had run the MC II and got good mileage 17k out of them. I rode more miles then as opposed to what I thought I would put on the bike in the "3 yr" window of longevity for bike tires. How old was the tire you had problems with? It looks to be over inflated and run to death. Not saying thats what happened, just sort of what it looks like. On the car tire do you notice it feels like your going to "tip over" if you corner it. Sure looks to me like with the way the tread is made on a car tire it would angle until it gets to the edge and then either not want to lean or would go all at one time. well like i sad 7k miles is not enuff miles as for age it was made in 13...as over inflated it was aired to max lbs as every1 said that was best pressure to run.... as for the car tire, if I didn't know it was a car tire wouldn't know the difference....i actually like the way it rides and handles ...( didn't think you'd ever hear me say that ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted June 6, 2015 Share #20 Posted June 6, 2015 Miles unfortunately is not the only factor. It seems manufacture date is, as you know from the Avon splitting at bead syndrome a larger issue. Once cycle tires get to an age and it seems like 3yrs rings a bell they just are not that pliable and begin to degrade. but I will say again your didnt look that way. It did look like a burnout competition subject. and with only the cords hanging out in the one spot there looks like it would have been out of balance something fierce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddlebum Posted June 6, 2015 Share #21 Posted June 6, 2015 In the trade we usuAlly see that kind of damage if 1 the wheel locked up or 2 the tire had an internl leak wear air gets up between the belt and the tread causing a bulge which soon wears off. Normally though for the second one you feel a vbration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camos Posted June 6, 2015 Share #22 Posted June 6, 2015 My E2's (I loved my E2's) cost me an experience like you describe on more than one occasion - just wore right out in a matter of a few hundred miles - really caught me off guard!! I always chalked it up to learning tire wear BUT There is no "but", go with your first thought. Something to consider: once you're through the wearing surface of a tire and into the carcass, it's going to fail in pretty short order. The carcass is not designed for road surface wearing conditions so it burns through fast.So I think Cowpuc and GW are both referring to the same condition. Other tires probably have similar construction to E3's which is a harder compound in the centre and a softer compound on the shoulders in an effort to maximize both wear and traction where it is needed on a touring tire. Not that I actually know what I am talking about but it makes sense to me that the carcass is made first with a fairly soft rubber compound then the shoulders and centre sections would be added later in either one or two pours. Once the riding surface wears close to the carcass it would likely not take much to go through the carcass to the cords. Something like a few normal applications of the brakes would likely do in the tire as midnight's pic shows. This thread is a good heads up for all of us to pay more attention to the state of our tires. Thanks to all for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Posted June 7, 2015 Share #23 Posted June 7, 2015 I have been running Avons on different bikes for many years and I have never seen anything like that. I have also never had any problems with them. !/8 of tread seems pretty scant. I would have changed it out before leaving on a trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great White Posted June 7, 2015 Share #24 Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) Maybe this will help: http://tech.bareasschoppers.com/wp-content/image_gallery/resources/tires/cutaway.jpg That a steel belted radial, but the principle is the same. A bias ply just has a few more fabric belts running at different angles. As you can see, once you're through the tread surface, there's very little between the sealing surface in side and the road. The belts and rubber they are imbedded in are not designed to survive contact with the road surface like the outer tread. Tire failure will happen fairly rapidly once into the carcass. As mentioned, 1/8" tread is taking your chances. Unless it was measured with a tire depth guage its hard to tell exactly how much tread is left. But, something to consider: tire manufacturers put the wear bars at 1/16". That's where you start to see them. Car tires are the same except they usually state it as 2/32", since tread depth is measured in 32nds. Its not the "dual compound" I'm talking about, it the difference in carcass and tread compounds I'm referring to. Here's a snippet from a website/blog that might make it a little clearer: Note as well that with radial tires especially, the of the tire nearest the cord (ie the last few mm of rubber) is much softer so it can bond to the cords within, hence this part of the tire wears much faster. That the tire is thinner now also means it flexes more than "normal" and this will cause it to scrub off material faster. You can have a good looking tire and ride just a few hundred miles and find cord showing. One should replace when the wear indicators are flat with the surface of the tread. Stretching mileage at this point can be dangerous. See this picture of a tire cross section to view the flexion area.[/Quote] Source: http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/index.html I'm not saying the Avon's didn't wear down quickly, they very well may have. That's all down to how and why they were built as they were by the oem. They may have sacrificed longevity for increased grip in dry or wet. I can't say either way since I didn't look them up. That's something I do when I'm looking to buy tires and what criteria I want in my skins. I'm just trying to explain why tires go from minimal tread to failure so quickly. Edited June 7, 2015 by Great White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted June 7, 2015 Share #25 Posted June 7, 2015 Just out of curiosity, how much of a front braker are you? For those that don't use their front brake much, I suspect that the rear tire would wear much quicker, especially when it is getting thin. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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