After 3361 mile ride here were my issues that need attention

[Droneh8tr]

83 Venture

I got home on Sunday after a 3361 trip with a friend and the bike ran well except for:

 

@800 miles per quart of oil.. Some leaks spotted but I don't think they amount to this much oil loss. Can't find any spots on the ground

 

Slow loss of radiator fluid.. Can't find any spots on the ground or a wet weep hole

 

Rear brake lever bound up.. Problem was rust had gotten excessive.. Removed, cleaned, lubed.. All good now

 

And a funny one.. Literally 2 miles into the trip the speedometer stopped. I pulled over shortly thereafter and found the cable disconnected behind the instrument panel. Reconnected and all good for the rest of the trip. I must have forgotten to secure it from a prior repair.

 

But, L & G, I'm looking for input on the oil and radiator fluid loss..

 

Here are the compression results: (done hot)

1. 155

2. 158

3. 139, oil injected and new press. was 152

4. 160

 

I just spotted this, an off white gelatinous goo in the air box. This would account for the tops of carbs. being wet with oil.

 

A valve clearance was done prior to trip so I feel that's ok.

Twinkie seal replaced prior to trip

Averaged 37 to 43 MPG:cool10:

 

What else can I check/do to figure out where my oil and radiator fluid are going.

[Venturous Randy]

Not sure about other 83 engines on oil consumption, but the engine I just took out of my 83 with 167,000 miles on used about a half quart in about 5,000 miles and this engine has been run very hard.

RandyA

[Droneh8tr]

Not sure about other 83 engines on oil consumption, but the engine I just took out of my 83 with 167,000 miles on used about a half quart in about 5,000 miles and this engine has been run very hard.

RandyA

 

WOW, that's low.. That's like a new engine.. Oh well, I've got work to do I just have to figure out the best path..

[Prairiehammer]

I just spotted this, an off white gelatinous goo in the air box. This would account for the tops of carbs. being wet with oil.

 

What else can I check/do to figure out where my oil and radiator fluid are going.

 

Usually a 'white gelatinous goo' indicates an emulsion of oil and water. Perhaps, the low compression cylinder is blowing by AND the coolant is being lost into that bad cylinder, turning to steam and blowing by with the crankcase oil forming that emulsion.

 

Is there any evidence of water/coolant in the crankcase oil? It may show as a grayish appearance of the oil in the sight glass.

 

Was the same white emulsion visible on the interior of the valve covers when you did the valve clearance check?

 

Perhaps a blown headgasket?

[frankd]

If you're going through a full quart in 800 miles that's a lot of oil. If you're burning it, riders behind you should see some blue smoke. You should also be able to see it on one or more spark plugs. If you're leaking anti-freeze and it's getting into the combustion cylinders, the spark plug for that cylinder will be very clean. Pull the plugs and see what you find.

 

Frank

[Droneh8tr]

Usually a 'white gelatinous goo' indicates an emulsion of oil and water. Perhaps, the low compression cylinder is blowing by AND the coolant is being lost into that bad cylinder, turning to steam and blowing by with the crankcase oil forming that emulsion.

 

Is there any evidence of water/coolant in the crankcase oil? It may show as a grayish appearance of the oil in the sight glass.

 

Was the same white emulsion visible on the interior of the valve covers when you did the valve clearance check?

 

Perhaps a blown headgasket?

 

Yeah I agree, it appears to be a water/ oil combo.. No, the oil in the sight glass appears to be pure oil. No, the white goo was not on the interior of the valve cover.

Do you think a radiator pressure test is in order as the next step? Clearly something isn't right and I would like to get going on this.. In VA we can ride for well into the year when properly dressed so Im anxious to get input on this.

[Peder_y2k]

It is normal for some coolant loss over time due to the evaporation of the water in the mix, especially when warm for long periods. While the water evaporates from the overflow bottle, the anti-freeze does not evaporate making a higher concentration. I normally add distilled water to refill the overflow bottle for the loss of 'coolant' as there are no leaks in my bike.

-Pete, in Tacoma WA USA

[djh3]

Well if memory serves rite, your compression results show bad or sticky rings. But for a qt in 800 miles I would think someone would notice and tell you. Also the plug would be fouled.

[Flyinfool]

I was loosing coolant for a while with no visible source. It turned out to be a leak in the freeze plug behind the side covers and the heat of the engine was evaporating the coolant before it could get to a point of being visible.

 

But that oil water mix in the air cleaner does not sound good. How high on the sight glass do you fill the oil? If it is filled over half it will pump the extra oil into the air cleaner. Did you recently ride in heavy rain? that could account for the water in the air cleaner.

 

Did you try Seafoam?

I would try a good dose of Seafoam in the gas and some more in the engine oil (per instruction on the can) to attack the sticky ring from both sides. Maybe you can get lucky and have it loosen up.

 

Have someone follow you to see if you have steam or oil smoke coming out the exhaust on hard acceleration, cruise or hard engine braking. Hopefully someone that knows the difference between steam and smoke out the exhaust.

[Condor]

WOW, that's low.. That's like a new engine.. Oh well, I've got work to do I just have to figure out the best path..

 

Ran my '83 with 50,000 on the odo for 3,000 miles and it didn't burn a drop. Now that's like new....

 

[GaryZ]

:whistling:My original '85 engine did not use or lose oil.

 

My '92 engine and my '87 engine weep oil out of the wire harness at the clutch slave. You will find oil on your kick-stand. The '87 must also be burning oil because I need to add every third fill-up. No one sees any smoke!

 

If I wash the bikes regularly, and I do, there are rarely any drips on the ground. When there is a drip, it is because I parked on the side stand.

 

BTW: And this will likely cause a few comments;

I tried synthetic oil in my '87 engine after breaking in the cams and the poor thing leaked all over. Switched back to dino oil and only have the weeping now.

[Droneh8tr]

If you're going through a full quart in 800 miles that's a lot of oil. If you're burning it, riders behind you should see some blue smoke. You should also be able to see it on one or more spark plugs. If you're leaking anti-freeze and it's getting into the combustion cylinders, the spark plug for that cylinder will be very clean. Pull the plugs and see what you find.

 

Frank

I did pull the plugs, of course, and actually I was surprised at how clean they were.

 

I was loosing coolant for a while with no visible source. It turned out to be a leak in the freeze plug behind the side covers and the heat of the engine was evaporating the coolant before it could get to a point of being visible.

 

But that oil water mix in the air cleaner does not sound good. How high on the sight glass do you fill the oil? If it is filled over half it will pump the extra oil into the air cleaner. Did you recently ride in heavy rain? that could account for the water in the air cleaner.

 

Did you try Seafoam?

I would try a good dose of Seafoam in the gas and some more in the engine oil (per instruction on the can) to attack the sticky ring from both sides. Maybe you can get lucky and have it loosen up.

 

Have someone follow you to see if you have steam or oil smoke coming out the exhaust on hard acceleration, cruise or hard engine braking. Hopefully someone that knows the difference between steam and smoke out the exhaust.

Well, I had ridden in some rain so maybe I'll clean the air box and see if it comes back.

When I get low on oil, generally I fill it to between 1/2 to full on the sight glass. I'll start keeping it close to the 1/2 and see what happens.

I had sea foamed the gas for maybe 3 or 4 tanks but not the oil. I'll do both at the same time and see what happens.

I was told that when I let up on the gas a puff of white came out the exhaust, he didn't say if it was smoke or steam.

 

So, I've got some things to try before committing to a tear down. I'll try and do these things quickly so I can get on with making a final decision as to what needs doing.

[jakester]

FYI I ran a big block chevy out of Texas up to Kansas years ago, ran fast and hard and lost about 4 quarts of oil, when I returned, ran the speed limit ( 55 ) and no oil consumption? Pvc valve was dumping oil at high rpm. Check the twinkie packing cause that would let oil get to the air breather. Just a thought.

Bill:detective:

[syscrusher]

FYI Check the twinkie packing cause that would let oil get to the air breather. Just a thought.

Bill:detective:

 

What the heck is the twinkie packing?

 

BTW: I had to sign up for an another year just so I can ask that.

[Condor]

What the heck is the twinkie packing?

 

BTW: I had to sign up for an another year just so I can ask that.

 

LOL... It's that heat exchanger? that lays at the bottom of the Valley between the cylinder banks. It's one area where oil and coolant come pretty close. Not sure what it does other than equalize engine temps, or maybe an oil cooler?? You can blame the name 'twinkie' on me. Way back when I didn't know what to call it on the '83VR so I called it a twinkie 'cause it looked like one, and it's stuck ever since. My claim to fame!!

 

[Flyinfool]

So Condor is Mr Twinkie......

[KIC]

I wish I had a claim to fame, but naming a small personally owned object a "twinkie" may not be what I am looking for...... just saying.....

LOL... It's that heat exchanger? that lays at the bottom of the Valley between the cylinder banks. It's one area where oil and coolant come pretty close. Not sure what it does other than equalize engine temps, or maybe an oil cooler?? You can blame the name 'twinkie' on me. Way back when I didn't know what to call it on the '83VR so I called it a twinkie 'cause it looked like one, and it's stuck ever since. My claim to fame!!

 

[Condor]

So Condor is Mr Twinkie......

 

 

I've been called a heck of a lot worse....

[Jayceesfolly]

"When I get low on oil, generally I fill it to between 1/2 to full on the sight glass. I'll start keeping it close to the 1/2 and see what happens."

 

 

 

Too much oil. I have always run only to the half way mark and the bottom mark and have never had any oil in the airbox.

 

Jim

[jakester]

It is my understanding , the twinkie acts like a crank case vent...so it has the ability to push excessive oil into the air box through the vent hose. so now the excess oil has a "vent" to leave the engine. If the packing is absent or crushed or wadded up on one end the oil can easily be pushed through it. Compression blowback would cause increase crankcase pressure blowing oil out the vent. Like I said, this is my understanding of the twinkie function.

Bill:backinmyday:

[Droneh8tr]

UPDATE

 

I ran Seafoam through the oil and gave it time to work. That #3 cylinder compression came up to 170.. I changed oil..

I am NOT seeing any coolant in the oil, AND I'm not seeing any oil in the coolant... I did find a coolant leak externally which may have accounted for why I was loosing so much coolant.

Now as for the oil burning..

I'm gonna run the bike getting it to full operating temperature and continue looking for antifreeze/oil leaks. Also, keep and eye on the airbox to see if the off white goo returns. I say returns because I've since cleaned it and would expect that their is residual in the tube coming from the twinkie. I'm thinking it will and this problem hasn't been resolved.

 

OBSERVATION

After starting, I get quite a bit of fluid droplets coming out of the exhaust on both sides. I've tried to determine what it is... coolant, water I just cant tell other than to say it isn't oil. These same fluid droplets will come out of the tube from the twinky into the airbox. (which may explain the off white goo)

 

SSSOOOOO, do these things point to coolant getting into the cylinder, some coming out the exhaust and some blowing by the rings, passing through the twinkie and gooing up the airbox?????? Maybe a blown head gasket??

 

Any input is appreciated..

[Prairiehammer]

I ran Seafoam through the oil and gave it time to work. That #3 cylinder compression came up to 170.. I changed oil..

I am NOT seeing any coolant in the oil, AND I'm not seeing any oil in the coolant... I did find a coolant leak externally which may have accounted for why I was loosing so much coolant.

Now as for the oil burning..

I'm gonna run the bike getting it to full operating temperature and continue looking for antifreeze/oil leaks. Also, keep and eye on the airbox to see if the off white goo returns. I say returns because I've since cleaned it and would expect that their is residual in the tube coming from the twinkie. I'm thinking it will and this problem hasn't been resolved.

 

The Seafoam apparently unsticking the rings is a very good thing. Just consider that there may still be a fair amount of combustion products trapped within the oil passages and crankcase ventilation galleries. This residual gunk may take a while to clear up.

OBSERVATION

After starting, I get quite a bit of fluid droplets coming out of the exhaust on both sides. I've tried to determine what it is... coolant, water I just cant tell other than to say it isn't oil. These same fluid droplets will come out of the tube from the twinky into the airbox. (which may explain the off white goo)

 

It is not unusual for there to be condensation emitting from the exhaust pipes. The same watery fluid emitting from the crankcase vent tube (that's the tube from the twinkie to the air box) is more worrisome. But, still, if you have a cold engine with moisture condensation in the crankcase, there may be some 'steam' condensing on the way from the warm twinkie to the cool air box.

 

SSSOOOOO, do these things point to coolant getting into the cylinder, some coming out the exhaust and some blowing by the rings, passing through the twinkie and gooing up the airbox?????? Maybe a blown head gasket??

 

Possibly, I suppose, but generally, if a head gasket is leaking coolant into the cylinder, that coolant will be burned off, exiting as steam out the exhaust pipe. I wouldn't think it would make it to air box, but on the other hand, if there were leaky rings and a lot of coolant being injected into the combustion chamber past a bad head gasket (unlikely, since the combustion pressures are greater than the coolant system pressure) then OK, maybe. Have you experienced any evidence of combustion gases in the coolant overflow bottle? Gurgling? Oily coolant?

 

The gaskets within the twinkie (there are a few) have been known to fail. Depending on which gasket/O-ring fails, you may experience oil in the coolant and/or emulsion in the air box.

 

 

 

[Droneh8tr]

So, what are we saying here...

 

My next step should be to remove/reseal the twinkie? If so, what else can I do to help it seal, I had already installed 2 new o rings and the 2 new gaskets..

Perhaps coat the rings and gaskets with some special sealant?

[BlueSky]

I'm new to these bikes and know very little about the engines. However, I'm a long time shadetree mechanic on cars. I would check the engine venting and make sure it is working appropriately. If pressure is building up in the oil pan, it will blow oil up to the intake. Perhaps you fixed the problem if it was stuck rings on that one cylinder. On a V8 car, one valve cover is vented to the air cleaner and the other is vented to the intake mainfold through a PCV or check valve. The purpose of the PCV is to prevent a backfire in the intake from blowing the oil pan off. Intake manifold vacuum pulls on the engine base through one valve cover and gets air from the air cleaner via the other valve cover. Our bikes have some system to do the same thing, I just don't know what it is.

[Droneh8tr]

UPDATE

Yesterday I removed the twinkie, a couple members have suggested that it could be a leak inside the twinkie or maybe a head gasket. As expected their was the off white goo inside. So, I chose the lesser of 2 evils and resealed the twinkie. I did NOT see anything that was blatantly a leak. Ill ride the bike this weekend and keep an eye on the discharge from the twinkie into the airbox. If the problem returns, I'll consider a cylinder leak down test and/or a head gasket replace.

 

Just to reiterate..

I don't see any oil in the antifreeze or any antifreeze in the oil.. #3 cylinders compression was low, but is now at 170. The other cylinders are in the same area.

I will from this point forward keep the oil level at 1/2 sight glass and not higher.