Over Pants vs Chaps

[stickhandle2]

I was in looking around at my favourite bike shop a week ago and happened to wander over and take a look at some chaps, on the display next to them were overpants........interesting they look like they would have alot more protection on them and the price was right. I tried a couple pairs on and they seemed ok, maybe a bit warm considering they were on over my jeans.

 

Does anyone out there in Venturerider land wear these, if you do are they comfortable.

 

I can't make up my mind whether to go the chaps route or the Overpants route, to make matters worse I remembered you can also get riding jeans. So confused, that has never happened before.

 

Thanks

[IronMike]

I weigh in heavy here. My chaps are for vanity there is about no protection at all should you take a dump. Although if you do need to take a dump after a fall with the chaps you will be able to do so without taking them off!

 

I'm not a leathers fan. Compared to what's available now You can get a lot more CE rated armor on the cheap that packs well and survives rain.

 

So I did buy leather overpants. Absolutely loved them compared to the chaps. I did a trip ten days long last July temps were over 95 each day.... and wore them everyday comfortably they breath. I didn't like they have no CE armor so I wore Bon Armor under them.

 

The chaps sit on a hangar. Seldom worn. Maybe to a bike night on my fake Harley (07 Roadstar Midnight)

 

IMHO chaps are idiotic and are a waste of cowhide. And you can hardly get into your front pockets with them on.

 

Go for the overpants. Your azz will love you for it if you crash!

[IronMike]

On the riding jeans that's also a go over leather. On a long trip water won't ruin your ride....you would be just a pay dryer away from getting dry. You can never dry leather on a trip and wet it's a lot of weight to carry and impossible to pack.

 

Again I use Bon Armor under my riding jeans. Little bit of Kevilar aint enough in my book. I only bring one pair on a ten day ride. You can wash the Bon Armor or under Armor in a sink or shower and line dry by take off.

 

I wish I had a picture of ALL the money I've wasted on the wrong gear. At about 100k miles of touring and i wear Riding jeans and Bon Armor. It washes up quick and is CE rated protection.

 

Had to double post. My droid is acting crazy.

[stickhandle2]

Ironmike,

 

Thanks for the info, it will make the decision alot easier now.

 

Have a good one.

 

Mike

[The Tooch]

Hey Mike

 

In our weather up here spring and fall the over pants are great. 1st thing in the morning when I commute down the 400, it's cool and the pants take the edge off the temp. And with all the crazy drivers, I can feel a little safer with the armour in the pants.

 

Only thing, it does kind of feels like your wearing a 2 piece snowmobile suit when you hop off.

 

I've got the Tour Master jacket & pants. If you come see me, we can go to Royal Distributing up here they have a very large selection from different manufacturers. Good prices as well, little more than the internet but when you add shipping cost now they beat them.

[Money Venture]

Are the riding jeans made special?

[Bert2006]

I alway's wear overpants as well as either a mesh or textile jacket. I have found that Joe Rocket makes good quality stuff and I like their fit.

 

The overpants I have can be worn all year. They have a removable liner as well as ventilation panels that can be removed. They are sometimes a bit warm, but they also protect from the heat of the engine. Here is a link:

http://www.joerocketcanada.com/en/catalog/item.cfm?ItemsID=ebfb3b33-6ad9-4872-8a80-1a6c66b3c6fd

 

Here are the Jackets I have:

 

Ballistic 12 - Good for spring and fall, but too warm for summer even with the liner removed.

 

http://www.joerocketcanada.com/en/catalog/item.cfm?ItemsID=ee6313a1-7ba7-495b-8324-24804cb4aa89

 

Phoenix 11 - Very comfortable late spring and summer jacket - even on high heat day's

 

http://www.joerocketcanada.com/en/catalog/item.cfm?ItemsID=9aa8fcf9-2146-4edd-b7ea-326cdb6e0400

 

[stickhandle2]

Hey Mike

 

In our weather up here spring and fall the over pants are great. 1st thing in the morning when I commute down the 400, it's cool and the pants take the edge off the temp. And with all the crazy drivers, I can feel a little safer with the armour in the pants.

 

Only thing, it does kind of feels like your wearing a 2 piece snowmobile suit when you hop off.

 

I've got the Tour Master jacket & pants. If you come see me, we can go to Royal Distributing up here they have a very large selection from different manufacturers. Good prices as well, little more than the internet but when you add shipping cost now they beat them.

 

 

Thanks Dave,

 

We absolutely can do that, I may check their store in Guelph as well.

 

Mike

[ReinyRooster]

Mike...let me know if/when you're going to the Guelph location....it's a 10 minute ride from my place and I always enjoy an excuse to go visit that store!

[bongobobny]

Yet another overpants fan...

[djh3]

I currently have leather chaps. At the time I was buying I was looking for warmth in the winter. Being in central Fla not much need for them other than a few days in the winter. In the last say 6 months or so I have been looking more towards "touring" gear. I have considered the overpants but most look very hot and almost like a rain suit ballistic nylon type stuff. So would probably be way to warm in summer here. Last month I think Jafrum or Leather up had "riding" jeans on sale and I looked at those some a an option. I guess if had the overpants I could wear shorts under them so when you get off you could at least towel off your legs.

[The Tooch]

I currently have leather chaps. At the time I was buying I was looking for warmth in the winter. Being in central Fla not much need for them other than a few days in the winter. In the last say 6 months or so I have been looking more towards "touring" gear. I have considered the overpants but most look very hot and almost like a rain suit ballistic nylon type stuff. So would probably be way to warm in summer here. Last month I think Jafrum or Leather up had "riding" jeans on sale and I looked at those some a an option. I guess if had the overpants I could wear shorts under them so when you get off you could at least towel off your legs.

 

If I lived your way I would consider two things the Kevlar Jean with armour pockets or mesh touring pants just like the mesh jackets they have armour protection but allow the breeze through. Just my

[djh3]

Yea when I bought my Vulcan in 07 I upgraded from my leather jacket I have had for umpteen years. It was a quilted liner so I didnt see me wearing it down here. I bought a tourmaster mesh textile. Its bearable up to about 90-95 if you can keep moving.

[Illinois]

I weigh in heavy here. My chaps are for vanity there is about no protection at all should you take a dump. Although if you do need to take a dump after a fall with the chaps you will be able to do so without taking them off!

 

Nice one!! Put me down as another textile guy.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Illinois

[RedRider]

Textile. Firstgear Kilimanjaro jacket (available in tall sizes) and HT Overpants. When warm, I will wear them over just LD Comfort shorts.

 

Have ridden through snow and Death Valley in this set up.

 

And, they are on Closeout at Motorcyclegear.com (formerly New Enough)

[MikeWa]

I use and like both chaps and overpants.

 

I find the chaps help keep sun heat, bugs and road debris off my legs. They go on and off fairly easily. All in all they make for a comfortable ride.

 

My overpants have a removable liner. So they are good for cold or warm weather. They also have armor which would be helpful in the event of a fall. Overpants are harder to get on and off. Sometimes I find the extra layer of clothing stiff and a little uncomfortable. In cold or cool weather I really like and appreciate the overpants.

 

So I can't say one is better than the other. But I can say for sure neither is worth a darn if you are not wearing them.

 

Mike

[bill4you502]

I was in looking around at my favourite bike shop a week ago and happened to wander over and take a look at some chaps, on the display next to them were overpants........interesting they look like they would have alot more protection on them and the price was right. I tried a couple pairs on and they seemed ok, maybe a bit warm considering they were on over my jeans.

 

Does anyone out there in Venturerider land wear these, if you do are they comfortable.

 

I can't make up my mind whether to go the chaps route or the Overpants route, to make matters worse I remembered you can also get riding jeans. So confused, that has never happened before.

 

Thanks

 

I wear both (Not at the same time!) depending on the circumstances. I have several pr of overpants from Cycle World and Leather Up.com. Both are armored and waterproof, but, awkward for me to wear. I wear chaps in the summer and on short trips. I believe in the "ATGATT" rule!!!

[Barrycuda]

I have chaps and overpants, by Olympia. I use them much of the time. Why? Easy to put on, has side zippers, can wear whatever work pants, because I can not wear jeans to work, or shorts etc. they have a rain liner for bad weather, and pockets. These also have knee and hip pads. Will they stop a speeding bullet? Hardly. May not even stop a speeding pigeon, but it's better than straight jeans. Some people will gripe about wearing them in the Florida sun. I got used to it and again, after you reach your destination, it's literally 15 to remove and fold.

Chaps I will wear sparingly in cold weather or for looks mainly. I doubt it'll save my bacon...

Now with me on a GW, chaps will look weird...

Edited June 13, 2014 by Barrycuda

[Tisunac]

In my humble opinion, it really depends of the climate where you live and how well you tolerate heat and/or cold weather. Also, do you ride in very hot or very cold weather... I've tried soooo many different riding pants while looking for a worm and hot weather riding pants - most of them I find too warm to wear. A lot of riders will disagree with me (and I completely understand that, we are all different) and say that you can ride with riding pants on 90+ degrees weather. To me, it feels like I'm wrapped in plastic. I know it's much safer (hence my search for a riding pants in a first place) but I couldn't stand the sweating within 2 minutes of having them on. Even the mash ones were like that (to me).

 

The other important factor (to me, at least) is a good fit - I found that most textile pants (Tri-tex material, nylon, etc) are quite "deep" (high waist) and go over your waist. It's intentional and it's suppose to prevent shirt from untucking when bending on the bike. Weeeell, if you are not build like an underwear model that feature might cause pressure to your stomach and make a ride very uncomfortable. For some reason, the belt part of the pants is always tighter then the rest so if they fit in a waist than they are too big elsewhere and if they fit everywhere else than I can't button them. Again, just my experience...

 

After a long search, I've ordered a pair of Sliders from Competition Accessories, based purely on reviews (ALL of them extremely positive) from people wearing them. To my huge surprise they did fit perfect straight out of the box!!! They "ride" just right - not too high, not too low. The fit is like your favorite pair of 5-pocket jeans. Excellent Kevlar coverage for Godforbid situation, and knee pockets if you want to put additional armor (I bought D030 knee armor, yet another fantastic product!) and I'm all set.

 

The next day I took them for a 3-day 1000 miles ride in the mountains of West Virginia and they were great. A little warmer than your regular jeans but you can expect that for the protection you get. Temperature was from high 70's to high 80's and I was okay. Somehow, I prefer the feel of jeans (even with Kevlar lining) to feel of plastic on my skin.

 

Granted, in cold weather that would not apply since I would have a pair of long athletic dri-kwik underpants so no direct plastic-on-skin contact. Still, I would prefer the fit of the Sliders jeans to any other riding pants. If you decide to give Sliders a try, read the reviews especially about the sizing (they run bigger).

 

Almost forgot - not that this was the most important factor but they were significantly less expensive than most riding pants on the market.

 

Good luck!...

[cowpuc]

I spent the bettervpart of my life in motocross boots, pants jersey, helmet, neck brace and gloves.. I was also an avid snowmobiler and fell inlove with my leather sledding gear from the 80, s.. tippy now wears my old old arctic cat that is aged leather,, its a beautiful jacket that I wouldnt trade for highest dollar leather bike jacket on the market,,, talk aboutbwarm..

For many years I wondered whyon earth the road bike accessory companys didnt follow the mx accessorys companies in their protectabilites.. mnow they do and I think xanyone cosidering buying outfits for real protection wouldbbe cheating themselfs if they didnt at least look at the amored stuff now offered... on the other hand,, I still like my tee shirts and jeans and am way to old for enjoying the adrenalin riding on snow n ice any more.. i like it above 65 and below 105,,, getting old I guess..

[IronMike]

Man I wish you could see my closet of mistakes.

 

Im going to say it is true depending on where you live and what you will ride through. But be wise or have a large selection of stuff you don't use like me.

 

I just got back into riding in 08. So I was not up on the gear.

After a lot of what people here are saying. Here is what I would take on a four season trip.

And if you have any doubt I go Four seasons, here is a pic of my Winter bike, A roadstar I run all winter long. In any weather, ICE snow Sleet Hail, Rain, its been in it all and everyone I work with knows it. I have caught Lake effect snow so many times it's crazy. And I ride home in it. HEAT is the same. NOTHING STOPS me from riding! I have ridden from below zero to above 110. And I am talking long rides, not a bar hop I mean at least half a day.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d139/usmcxterra/MS1700/Dec08034.jpg

 

I wear socks that wick and come up to the bottom of my Knee, These have a cooling effect and will not cut off your circulation. Diabetics wear them. You can put wool over them for cooler weather. They go into real riding specific boots. My pick is same as Iron Butt, Tour Master Solution II's. over 70K on mine like new, you can walk out a flea market in them.

 

My Armor riding Jeans. And I have seen some better ones recently, Your looking for lots of Kevlar, a big watch pocket, and a way to close the leg so it does not flap. Order them a little long so they don't ride up. I get loose fit so they are comfortable. BUT remember I am wearing Bon Armor under them.

 

Bon Armor, I can't say enough about that stuff, look it up, read the reviews and testimonials. They cover what your other stuff won't and they come in a Solid or a cooling effect netting. If you are going for one or the other get the netting, set. They wash up easily in the sink or shower with Woolite. Hang dry, they will make the trip and camping.

 

Now I will mention that I ALWAYS carry the Wool blend ski style Long Underwear I swear some summer nights feel colder than winter. And trust me when I say I ride all year, and have ridden down below zero with only heated gloves. And I have proof! I have a few sets, some came from Wal MArt and one came from Sams club. It packs down small and I ALWAYS carry it. If you wear the Bon Armor at night that is netted, you will freeze! You will need the Long underwear! BUT! It will save you from buying two sets of Bon Armor.

 

Bon Armor is COOL I have worn it under leather on a trip in mostly over 90 degree weather I was COOL I said I was COOL at least while moving. It is cooler than riding naked! Trust me! (No pictures but I do have a female witness)

 

The latest addition to my Arsenal is this!

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BFWK4WG/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1]Amazon.com: CE Approved Full Body Armor Motorcycle Jacket-3XL: Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lhwIEVGlL.@@AMEPARAM@@51lhwIEVGlL[/ame]

That is also COOL So COOL you better have your long underwear with you and a jacket that closes around the sleeves or you will freeze at night! I had to stop and beg some rubber bands once! It's cool! it flows a LOT of air! You can wear it in 120 degree weather and be cooler than Anything else! Even Bon Armor! It washes same way, in the shower with woolite.

 

I started at the toes and worked my way up, but to be serious, when you are off the bike sliding down the road you hands are doing a lot of things and taking a real beating. You need real live motorcycle gloves on. They should have some kevlar in them, they should have extra layers in key points and most of all a velcro strap across the wrist to remain on your hands in a slide. ANyone who has went blacktop surfing will second me! Just a glove will slide off first ten feet! This is what i wear when i am getting serious. Although I do have lighter stuff. This is what I would wish I had on when I do crash.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0096D4IYG/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1]Amazon.com: EXCALIBUR BLACK LEATHER CARBON & STEEL ARMOR MOTORCYCLE GLOVES SIZE L: Clothing@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SkbeDcKSL.@@AMEPARAM@@51SkbeDcKSL[/ame]

 

As it gets cooler you would need heated gloves, Gerbing or Tour master is good stuff. My TM have not worn out in 70K miles. But I would go Gerbing next time. I am using their controler with my TM gloves. Its just better stuff.

 

ALl my stuff is good locally or on a really long trip. Leather is actually better than Nylon for protection but it is not for trips. Once it is wet it is a large liability. And unlike what I mention there is about zero chance of cleaning it overnight on a trip. So I pass.

 

Chaps are out because they provide no protection on your rear. They are just something to wear that looks cool. It's not giving you much in return.

 

Also I will carry a set of fleece headgear, neck wrap, Balaclava, and a Neoprene face mask. And in winter I carry (Even in summer) the Hand warmers. If it gets real cold you just toss some in your pant legs and Jacket and you will toast!

 

I'll let you pick the Helmet. I wear a Shoei in the winter full face, I should wear it all year but I fade into a Half Helmet Carbon Fiber Kevlar mix in the summer. Ill hate it if I crash in it.

 

Anyways I spent all this time telling you this so you can realize that layering goes for Motorcycles too. If you buy the right gear once, I think you will be about $4000.00 ahead of me. After all I have bought this is what goes on almost every trip! I am ready for anything with just this small selection of gear that packs down and cleans up at the shower or sink with woolite. And dries fast. With the exception of the Riding Jeans, and if you wear the Under armor or Bon Armor, they will not need washed on a one week trip. You can spot clean them or visit a laundry once if you want.

 

I have tossed it out there on several forums that any takers on a contest run from NY city to San Diego in Mid January I'm game for 5 Grand. No one has jumped on it. I may just do it myself.

 

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d139/usmcxterra/MS1700/Mudflap013-1.jpg

This Pic was taken after a particularly challenging run on the Ohio Turnpike In Feb, the wind was hitting me so hard on one side of the bike, only that side got snow on it. It was Ice with snow and slush on top. 30 MPH south winds going East, It was a thriller. I didn't volunteer for this, I rode to work and it came in while I was gone. When I came back I rode home.

 

Don't follow me..... you won't make it!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d139/usmcxterra/MS1700/1b6db49a.jpg

See it right there? Zoom in.

 

That's my Tag line.

[Aussie Annie]

"Dragging Jeans".

 

Kevlar jeans summer and winter styles

[IronMike]

Draggin are good for womens Cut but there are so many others that provide more protection. I've never looked into womens cut other than Draggin I wonder whats out there.

 

Something with optional armor like these maybe.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/65760/i/agv-sport-alloy-kevlar-jeans?SiteID=SLI|Armored%20Jeans&WT.MC_ID=10010

[V7Goose]

I never ride without protective gear, and for me that usually means leather, with the exception of the Joe Rocket mesh jacket I favor in the summer. I have chaps, overpants, and leather "jeans". I like them all for specific times, but frankly the chaps get the majority of use. I almost never wear the leather jeans.

 

I personally think the chaps give PLENTY of needed protection. True, your butt is not covered, but the times that you might slide directly on your ass are frankly just danged rare. You roll and tumble, and on contact, your butt is heavily padded anyway so nothing digs in. I've been down, and my chaps show the scuff marks, but I have never had a tear in the uncovered parts of my Levis.

 

The chaps have one huge benefit in the summer - putting feet on the highway pegs allows lots of air to rush through the chaps for ventilation. The overpants are exactly opposite - since they are closed at the top no air gets pushed up the legs, making them the preferred option in cooler weather.

 

The downside to the overpants for me is that they are slightly more laborious to put on/off, they are considerably heavier and more bulky for storage, and I am forced to take stuff out of the pockets to put in my Levis when I take off the gear.

Goose

[cowpuc]

Man I wish you could see my closet of mistakes.

 

Im going to say it is true depending on where you live and what you will ride through. But be wise or have a large selection of stuff you don't use like me.

 

I just got back into riding in 08. So I was not up on the gear.

After a lot of what people here are saying. Here is what I would take on a four season trip.

And if you have any doubt I go Four seasons, here is a pic of my Winter bike, A roadstar I run all winter long. In any weather, ICE snow Sleet Hail, Rain, its been in it all and everyone I work with knows it. I have caught Lake effect snow so many times it's crazy. And I ride home in it. HEAT is the same. NOTHING STOPS me from riding! I have ridden from below zero to above 110. And I am talking long rides, not a bar hop I mean at least half a day.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d139/usmcxterra/MS1700/Dec08034.jpg

 

I wear socks that wick and come up to the bottom of my Knee, These have a cooling effect and will not cut off your circulation. Diabetics wear them. You can put wool over them for cooler weather. They go into real riding specific boots. My pick is same as Iron Butt, Tour Master Solution II's. over 70K on mine like new, you can walk out a flea market in them.

 

My Armor riding Jeans. And I have seen some better ones recently, Your looking for lots of Kevlar, a big watch pocket, and a way to close the leg so it does not flap. Order them a little long so they don't ride up. I get loose fit so they are comfortable. BUT remember I am wearing Bon Armor under them.

 

Bon Armor, I can't say enough about that stuff, look it up, read the reviews and testimonials. They cover what your other stuff won't and they come in a Solid or a cooling effect netting. If you are going for one or the other get the netting, set. They wash up easily in the sink or shower with Woolite. Hang dry, they will make the trip and camping.

 

Now I will mention that I ALWAYS carry the Wool blend ski style Long Underwear I swear some summer nights feel colder than winter. And trust me when I say I ride all year, and have ridden down below zero with only heated gloves. And I have proof! I have a few sets, some came from Wal MArt and one came from Sams club. It packs down small and I ALWAYS carry it. If you wear the Bon Armor at night that is netted, you will freeze! You will need the Long underwear! BUT! It will save you from buying two sets of Bon Armor.

 

Bon Armor is COOL I have worn it under leather on a trip in mostly over 90 degree weather I was COOL I said I was COOL at least while moving. It is cooler than riding naked! Trust me! (No pictures but I do have a female witness)

 

The latest addition to my Arsenal is this!

Amazon.com: CE Approved Full Body Armor Motorcycle Jacket-3XL: Automotive

That is also COOL So COOL you better have your long underwear with you and a jacket that closes around the sleeves or you will freeze at night! I had to stop and beg some rubber bands once! It's cool! it flows a LOT of air! You can wear it in 120 degree weather and be cooler than Anything else! Even Bon Armor! It washes same way, in the shower with woolite.

 

I started at the toes and worked my way up, but to be serious, when you are off the bike sliding down the road you hands are doing a lot of things and taking a real beating. You need real live motorcycle gloves on. They should have some kevlar in them, they should have extra layers in key points and most of all a velcro strap across the wrist to remain on your hands in a slide. ANyone who has went blacktop surfing will second me! Just a glove will slide off first ten feet! This is what i wear when i am getting serious. Although I do have lighter stuff. This is what I would wish I had on when I do crash.

Amazon.com: EXCALIBUR BLACK LEATHER CARBON & STEEL ARMOR MOTORCYCLE GLOVES SIZE L: Clothing

 

As it gets cooler you would need heated gloves, Gerbing or Tour master is good stuff. My TM have not worn out in 70K miles. But I would go Gerbing next time. I am using their controler with my TM gloves. Its just better stuff.

 

ALl my stuff is good locally or on a really long trip. Leather is actually better than Nylon for protection but it is not for trips. Once it is wet it is a large liability. And unlike what I mention there is about zero chance of cleaning it overnight on a trip. So I pass.

 

Chaps are out because they provide no protection on your rear. They are just something to wear that looks cool. It's not giving you much in return.

 

Also I will carry a set of fleece headgear, neck wrap, Balaclava, and a Neoprene face mask. And in winter I carry (Even in summer) the Hand warmers. If it gets real cold you just toss some in your pant legs and Jacket and you will toast!

 

I'll let you pick the Helmet. I wear a Shoei in the winter full face, I should wear it all year but I fade into a Half Helmet Carbon Fiber Kevlar mix in the summer. Ill hate it if I crash in it.

 

Anyways I spent all this time telling you this so you can realize that layering goes for Motorcycles too. If you buy the right gear once, I think you will be about $4000.00 ahead of me. After all I have bought this is what goes on almost every trip! I am ready for anything with just this small selection of gear that packs down and cleans up at the shower or sink with woolite. And dries fast. With the exception of the Riding Jeans, and if you wear the Under armor or Bon Armor, they will not need washed on a one week trip. You can spot clean them or visit a laundry once if you want.

 

I have tossed it out there on several forums that any takers on a contest run from NY city to San Diego in Mid January I'm game for 5 Grand. No one has jumped on it. I may just do it myself.

 

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d139/usmcxterra/MS1700/Mudflap013-1.jpg

This Pic was taken after a particularly challenging run on the Ohio Turnpike In Feb, the wind was hitting me so hard on one side of the bike, only that side got snow on it. It was Ice with snow and slush on top. 30 MPH south winds going East, It was a thriller. I didn't volunteer for this, I rode to work and it came in while I was gone. When I came back I rode home.

 

Don't follow me..... you won't make it!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d139/usmcxterra/MS1700/1b6db49a.jpg

See it right there? Zoom in.

 

That's my Tag line.

Greatvwrite up mike! Sorry you got chosen to be the quinee pig for the rest of us and the expenses involved BUT thanks for doing so! LOVE YOUR PICS AND TAG LINE! By looking at the pics our tagline is right on the money! Do you pulled a trailer when riding on ice and if so, how does that effect the handling of your bikie

sorry,,, I couldnt resist,,,, sometimes I just talk to much:confused24: nuther flaw in my charector