Harbor Freight Tag-along ride report

[Dave77459]

Before this thread is closed I would like to ask a question about toe-in or out as it applies to trailers. I have a limited understanding of the term, but mostly when it applies to the front of cars.

What is confusing me is, if the axle has a toe-in, or out then wouldn't there have to be an indication as to left-right side, or front or back? I assumed any variance was due to the manufacturer, especially on a $129 trailer.

When I bought mine, the axle came in a separate box in the main box It had no indication or which way the axle was to be installed. I could be having a senile moment though, I honestly don't remember any induction of direction of the axle.

You can download the manual here. But, there is/was no indication of front or rear on the axle. It had sockets where pegs on the leaf springs sit, assuring axle alignment. If I had put the axle on the other way, my tires would have been toed-in, rather than toed-out. They would have still scrubbed off.

 

Dave

[Flyinfool]

If you had put the axle on the other way with toe in instead of toe out, the tires would have still worn out quickly but you might not have had the vibration. Althoe with the amount that it was off the tires may have been hopping down the road since they were being dragged sideways instead of rolling.

 

Toe in is a more stable condition than toe out.

Almost all cars have toe in on the front tires and those that have independent suspension in the rear also have toe in on the rear tires.

The reason for this is that the vehicle when getting pushed of line by some force like a cross wind or swerve will cause a weight transfer to the side it is being pushed toward. Because the side with more weight has more traction, the toe in will help to steer it back on course with no operator input.

There is also a slight amount of toe in required due to the drag of the wheel and bearings pulling the wheel toward the rear and some of the toe in will come out due to that pull bending the axle slightly.

[Yammy]

Thanks guys. That's some manual. Mine was very vague. My frame was bolt together, not as elaborate. I took 10" out of the width. Guess I got lucky.

[Dave77459]

If you had put the axle on the other way with toe in instead of toe out, the tires would have still worn out quickly but you might not have had the vibration. Althoe with the amount that it was off the tires may have been hopping down the road since they were being dragged sideways instead of rolling.

 

Toe in is a more stable condition than toe out.

Almost all cars have toe in on the front tires and those that have independent suspension in the rear also have toe in on the rear tires.

The reason for this is that the vehicle when getting pushed of line by some force like a cross wind or swerve will cause a weight transfer to the side it is being pushed toward. Because the side with more weight has more traction, the toe in will help to steer it back on course with no operator input.

There is also a slight amount of toe in required due to the drag of the wheel and bearings pulling the wheel toward the rear and some of the toe in will come out due to that pull bending the axle slightly.

 

Thank you for the information. Very informative!

 

Thanks guys. That's some manual. Mine was very vague. My frame was bolt together, not as elaborate. I took 10" out of the width. Guess I got lucky.

I gather you bought the plain utility trailer, not the "Tag Along"? My frame was welded, and it cost much more than $129.

 

Dave

[MikeWa]

Toe is very easy to check. Toe in / \ Toe out \ / All you need is a tape measure. Pick a spot on the edge of the remaining tread on the front of each tire and measure the distance between the two tires front to front. Now from the same tread on the back of the tires measure the distance tire to tire. Be as accurate as you can. If the distance between the front edges is less than the back you are toed in. If the front is more than the back you are toed out. The exact same reading front and back is desirable in a trailer but in either case the difference in your reading should not exceed 1/8 inch. (If this checks good keep in mind this reading might change when the trailer is loaded).

 

Once the toe is correct use your tape measure and measure from the same edge of each tire to the center of the hitch. The reading should be exactly the same. If not the trailer is out of line.

Mike

[rickardracing]

I would think the ultimate lesson learned here was that Harbor Frieght trailers are cheap Chinese junk, just like most things manufactured in China and maybe you should think twice about buying one. Let's face it, you get what you pay for. They are cheap for a reason. I personally do not have a trailer.....yet, But when I do, it won't be a Harbor Frieght Special. I am glad you found the problem. I am willing to bet you won't have anymore tire wear issues.

[Dave77459]

I would think the ultimate lesson learned here was that Harbor Frieght trailers are cheap Chinese junk, just like most things manufactured in China and maybe you should think twice about buying one. Let's face it, you get what you pay for. They are cheap for a reason. I personally do not have a trailer.....yet, But when I do, it won't be a Harbor Frieght Special. I am glad you found the problem. I am willing to bet you won't have anymore tire wear issues.

Really? That's the ultimate lesson? You learned that in this discussion?

 

For others who stumble on this discussion in the future and don't care to read 9 pages of information,

 

 

• there was a great discussion on tire wear, and diagnosing faults
  
• of superior value (at least to me) was the presentation of a method to measure tire toe-in or toe-out.
  
• I learned much about tire pressure, how it effects wear, and how it influences trailer ride
  
• leaf spring effects on ride quality were discussed
  
• the effect of toe-in versus toe-out on vehicle tracking was given
  
• Harbor Freight was re-confirmed to be a stand up company on a defective product
  
• there was a lively discussion between V7Goose and tx2sturgis; it was like the thrilla in Manila, although betting was apparently suspended
  

Not really discussed until now was the very obvious assertion that a cheap product is sometimes built cheaply. Who knew?

 

Dave

[Ponch]

I think you would have to admit that with all of the HF trailers bought by members on this site, there has been very few complaints.

I am very hesitant to buy "cheap" stuff, but I have to say that HF backs their products well and most of their hand tools have a lifetime warranty.

[Yammy]

I think you would have to admit that with all of the HF trailers bought by members on this site, there has been very few complaints.

I am very hesitant to buy "cheap" stuff, but I have to say that HF backs their products well and most of their hand tools have a lifetime warranty.

 

Agreed. I have no complaints and threads like these helps us all

[rickardracing]

Actually I did learn a few things from this thread. All I am saying is you get what you pay for. If you buy a cheap trailer, expect to have trouble. Some may never other may. That's all. Don't take offense. It is what it is.

[Ponch]

No offense taken by me. I'm truly surprised we are not having more issues with this trailer. All in all, I'm impressesed. I think that this trailer is a great deal for anyone who wants a low budget trailer.

[Squidley]

This thread will help others in the future on what to look for as they are assembling one of these trailers. I have to say that for the money, this little trailer is a decent rig. I have built several trailers and for the price you can purchase these for you couldn't buy the materials to build one yourself, little own the time involved in assembling a home built trailer.

 

Dave's issues was kinda a fluke in the fact of the spindles being wrong. Just have to measure the ones that come with the kit for anyone else buying one. I would have absolutely no reservation buying one of these trailers for the money. They do exactly what they claim and pull nicely for the most part. I'm just glad that we got it figured out and now Zipcode has a good axle under his trailer

[Guest tx2sturgis]

 

I doubt that you will agree with me, but you absolutely have big problems with your trailer, too. Any street legal tire that is worn out in any way with only 800 miles has been abused in a defective setup. And the tire inflation had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. The process to identify what is wrong is exactly the same as I outlined for Dave. And I would be very happy to help you find the problem, but it sounds like you will need to buy two sets of tires just to get that thing here if you even care about getting it fixed.

 

And to your question about "...just how sure are you?" I am 100% sure. There is absolutely NO possibility that any street legal tire on a lightweight motorcycle trailer could EVER be worn out in under 2,000 miles UNLESS there is something major wrong with the trailer. The fact that you ruined a set of tires in only 800 miles simply proves what I am saying.

Goose

 

 

The Motorvation trailer in question has now been fully disassembled and the small torsion axles are going to be used in a new, one-wheel trailer of my own design. The first build out of 2 units will each include one of these expensive ( if bought new) axle-wheel-tire combos. When I disassembled the trailer, removing the body from the frame, it appears that its possible, repeat, POSSIBLE that there may have been some intended toe-in configured in the axles during construction. I did a simple straightedge comparison of the left and right axle stubs and noticed about 1/8 of an inch of toe-in per side, but the original builder MAY have been taking into account some 'play' or tracking error in the torsion stubs. The axle stubs were fastened to the frame with 6 bolts on each unit, and then the flanges were welded to the frame at all four corners on each one, so they have NOT moved since it was built in 1999.

 

When the one-wheel trailer is completed, and this will take some time, I will be using these same 10 inch scooter tires during the initial testing of the trailer. Of course, these scooter tires will not be subject to alignment problems, since I will be using ONE of them per trailer, and will be taking due care in the alignment. Assuming alignment is correct, they should have no mis-tracking issues, as far as tread wear, and we will see as time progresses, how these tires last when used this way.

 

This early in the project, I cant speculate as to how long they will last in this situation. They are a soft compound, intended for use on a small scooter, and I dont know what type of mileage these tires are normally good for on a scooter. I will be fitting brand new tires when the testing begins. These are ChingShen, 4.00 x 10 tires.

 

I just wanted to update the participants and especially Dave and Goose, that the experiment continues!

 

[Dave77459]

I thought I'd give an update of my own, now that I am back from my second trip and my film is developed.

 

This second trip was 3500 miles to Zion National Park and back. I rode over all sorts of surfaces in all sorts of weather (except snow!) without any problems. The picture below tells the tale: barely any wear. In comparison, the original axle went through two pairs of tires in this distance. FYI, I ran the tires at 20psi, rather than the max 60psi.

 

There was very few signs of the horrible vibration that I had experienced. I rode over some pretty "buzzy" macadam surfaces, and I think what slight vibration I discovered was from that rather than a trailer defect.

 

I also had a chance to spend half a thousand miles on the 80mph section of I-10. Not that I would go that fast, mind you. The hubs never got hot.

 

I'm really happy with how it handled. No sway, almost impossible to detect unless stopping. I'm hopeful that my first axle was a fluke.

 

Dave

[Dave77459]

For those of you interested in HF business, I just got my new axle yesterday. I had talked to them on 8/16 and they quoted 6-8 weeks. It ended up being 10 weeks. They were delivered by FedEx instead of overland freight, so I guess they realized they were beyond the quoted time.

 

I didn't unpack the boxes (2 of them) yet, but judging by how much complaining my daughter did when I tricked her into carrying them into the garage , they are the parts.

 

Now to get the axle to Squidley to replace the one he got me, and this episode will be complete.

 

Dave

[Gary N.]

I don't have any intention of pulling a trailer behind my bike but after reading this post I have a question for the experts. We all know that under inflation causes heat and possible tire failure on most vehicles. I get that these trailers have relatively light loads and therefore lower tire pressure is OK to achieve a better ride quality. My question is this. Why are you (meaning anyone pulling one of these trailers) using a multi leaf spring set up on such a light trailer? I would think that a single leaf spring under this type of trailer would carry any load you would ever want to carry and contribute to a better ride. This would also allow you to put a little more air pressure in the tires to help keep them cooler and lessen the chance of a blow out due to heat. I just don't like the idea of using the tire side wall as part of the suspension system. What does HF rate the carrying capacity of these trailers at?

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I don't have any intention of pulling a trailer behind my bike but after reading this post I have a question for the experts. We all know that under inflation causes heat and possible tire failure on most vehicles. I get that these trailers have relatively light loads and therefore lower tire pressure is OK to achieve a better ride quality. My question is this. Why are you (meaning anyone pulling one of these trailers) using a multi leaf spring set up on such a light trailer? I would think that a single leaf spring under this type of trailer would carry any load you would ever want to carry and contribute to a better ride. This would also allow you to put a little more air pressure in the tires to help keep them cooler and lessen the chance of a blow out due to heat. I just don't like the idea of using the tire side wall as part of the suspension system. What does HF rate the carrying capacity of these trailers at?

 

 

Wow...this last question sat for awhile....

 

Most owners of these trailers take out a leaf or 2 on each side....I can't say who has and who hasn't. And, yes they should ride better and have less bounce if the springs are matched to the intended load. I guess some owners may not even know you can remove individual leafs.

 

 

Your point is valid about the tire sidewalls flexing, but were talking 100 to 200 pounds MAXIMUM load per tire...the sidewalls hardly flex at all under that load.

 

 

By the way, I have been making progress on MY trailer project...the single-wheeler I'm gonna pull behind my bike. I've had some welding done, and assembled it, and took it for a test pull tonite...I loaded about 80 pounds on it and it did fine.

 

Several more things have to be done....and pics will be posted later, in a new thread in the trailer forum.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave77459]

*snip*

What does HF rate the carrying capacity of these trailers at?

The owner manual for the trailer says, "WARNING! TO PREVENT SERIOUS INJURY AND/OR DEATH, DO NOT EXCEED THE MAXIMUM PAYLOAD CAPACITY OF 600 LB. OR 55 MPH MAXIMUM SPEED."

 

Later, it says,

 

5. Use for intended purpose only; not for aircraft purposes.

 

You know, in case you were gonna build a plane out of it or something?

 

Dave

[Condor]

Whew!! Long thread with lots of opinions. Why not one more... I'm with Goose on this one, and I also agree that over inflation will cause center wear. It really doesn't matter how the wear occurs, but what does matter is that the tires wore out prematurely. Over inflation will cause the wear pattern, however the tires are scrubbing, and are not aligned. They're not hopping, bouncing, or dragging, all of which will give an uneven tire wear pattern. From the pics the wear is very even. So the axel is out of alignment, or the axel is bent. I'd make sure the axel is square to the coupler, and if it still wears take it back to HF, raise a big stink and get another trailer.... Also on the low tire pressures... low pressures will cause sidewall flex and outer edge cupping, and when loaded to max could cause over heating and premature tire failure. IMHO

[Flyinfool]

The owner manual for the trailer says, "WARNING! TO PREVENT SERIOUS INJURY AND/OR DEATH, DO NOT EXCEED THE MAXIMUM PAYLOAD CAPACITY OF 600 LB. OR 55 MPH MAXIMUM SPEED."

 

Later, it says,

 

5. Use for intended purpose only; not for aircraft purposes.

 

You know, in case you were gonna build a plane out of it or something?

 

Dave

 

It is OK to make an airplane out of it, you just can not tow it with an airplane.......

 

I believe that the tires are rated for around 1000lbs each at MAX pressure. As with any tire, You only need MAX pressure for a MAX load. So it is perfectly safe to run less pressure for a light load. Since I will have to stop for gas every 120 miles the trailer tires and bearings will get checked often.

 

The HF one I just bought is rated 875lbs GVW, it came with a 2 leaf spring that I have already removed one leaf. I am also planning to flip the axle to the top of the spring to lower the center of gravity to make it less likely to flip in a hard corner or a pothole. We have a good bumper crop of potholes going this year. Once I get the trailer built I will check to make sure that flipping the axle is not going to cause any clearance issues.

 

This will be my first experience pulling a trailer with a bike and I will admit that I do have some reservations about it. My biggest concern is emergency stopping. Once I test pull the trailer with some weight in it, I will decide if I am adding electric brakes to help out in the event of a panic stop.

[Dave77459]

Whew!! Long thread with lots of opinions. Why not one more... I'm with Goose on this one, and I also agree that over inflation will cause center wear. It really doesn't matter how the wear occurs, but what does matter is that the tires wore out prematurely. Over inflation will cause the wear pattern, however the tires are scrubbing, and are not aligned. They're not hopping, bouncing, or dragging, all of which will give an uneven tire wear pattern. From the pics the wear is very even. So the axel is out of alignment, or the axel is bent. I'd make sure the axel is square to the coupler, and if it still wears take it back to HF, raise a big stink and get another trailer.... Also on the low tire pressures... low pressures will cause sidewall flex and outer edge cupping, and when loaded to max could cause over heating and premature tire failure. IMHO

 

Just to reiterate what was found:

• the wheel hubs were out of alignment by a very wide margin.
  
• Squidley gave me an axle that was aligned; there was no wear on later trips
  
• HF sent me replacement "axles" -- actually parts rather than an usable axle. I passed them along to Squidley who can make use of them.
  

Dave

[ctraylor]

Measure from side to side in the front of the tire verses the rear and see it there is a difference. The toe can really wear tire quiet significantly.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Hey Zipcode, you just THOUGHT this thread was buried on the server huh?