Harbor Freight Tag-along ride report

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I have a 480x8 with integral hub on my sidecar and have been running it at 35psi. My wife says at 20psi she can feel the rim hit the pavement if I hit a bridge deck or skim a pothole.

 

Sidecars are a different application here. You have side loads on that tire that a small trailer does not impose on its tires. Plus you have more weight and the mass of the bike to contend with. 20 PSI is not enough pressure in your case.

 

 

 

I'd check wheel alignment versus centerline like Goose suggests, overinflation may make these puppies wear faster in the center but not in 2-3K miles

 

I wore out a pair of scooter tires on my Motorvation trailer in less than 800 miles. This happened twice. Dave said the alignment on his trailer was good, so I take him at his word and assume that overinflation is the culprit.

[Dave77459]

Dave said the alignment on his trailer was good, so I take him at his word and assume that overinflation is the culprit.

Not to get too much credit, but if the wheels were both toed in or out, wouldn't it track straight but still wear fast?

 

Dave

[flb_78]

Not to get too much credit, but if the wheels were both toed in or out, wouldn't it track straight but still wear fast?

 

Dave

 

Very possible. I've aligned many a semi tractor trailers and it's amazing how fast an axle that is 1/4" off can tear up tires and the driver said the truck drove fine.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Not to get too much credit, but if the wheels were both toed in or out, wouldn't it track straight but still wear fast?

 

Dave

 

I doubt that this small trailer has any toe-in. It might have a VERY small amount.

 

If it has ANY toe-out it would handle horribly, since any bump hitting only ONE tire would cause the whole trailer to track off center for a moment, probably causing some side to side action in the hitch and the bike.

 

No, I've never pulled a trailer with intentional toe-out, and I hope I never do.

 

A quick measurement from the coupler to the hub on each side, preferably with the wheels removed will show if the axle is misaligned with the coupler. The drawbar needs to be dead centered on the axle for this to work.

[Squidley]

I'm gonna chime in here now....

 

Ponch, I and Dave Pankow helped Zipcode put this trailer together. Here are a few things that we made sure of when it was assembled. Both sides of the naked axle were measured to the same spot on the tounge, both were within a 1/16". The axle, when we installed it, was strait and not bent. If memory serves me correctly there is only 1 spring on this, so it pivots in the front and is retained by a bolt in the rear.

 

Dave brought it over to my house, where we tore the hubs completely off and cleaned them out thoroughly, bearings and all. We packed them with Kendall super Blue high performance wheel bearing grease. I spun both hubs with the tires on them and there wasn't any excessive drag. We had 20 to 25 lbs of air, I dont remember exactly, but I have always kept my pressures on every trailer I have owned @ 20 lbs.

 

Lets remember that we are talking about a HF trailer here, the quality control is not the same on any 2 of them so it's entirely possible that the wheels are out of round or the tires were just a piece of crap. We all know too the importance of keeping the load exactly where the weight should be, if there was wear, things were shifting.

 

Dave get with me and we'll either come to your place or you can shoot out here and we will inspect the trailer to see if there is some damage that occurred somewhere on the trip....glad to see you made it home

[Flyinfool]

I doubt that this small trailer has any toe-in. It might have a VERY small amount.

 

If it has ANY toe-out it would handle horribly, since any bump hitting only ONE tire would cause the whole trailer to track off center for a moment, probably causing some side to side action in the hitch and the bike.

 

No, I've never pulled a trailer with intentional toe-out, and I hope I never do.

 

A quick measurement from the coupler to the hub on each side, preferably with the wheels removed will show if the axle is misaligned with the coupler. The drawbar needs to be dead centered on the axle for this to work.

 

Meaning extend the center line of the tongue and measure from the C/L out to each hub, should be the same on both sides.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Thanks Squidley for pointing out that the trailer axle is aligned and that the tires might have simply been, as you put it, crap.

 

Did you verify that the drawbar is exactly centered with the axle? By that I mean the rear most part of the drawbar is laser perfect with the center of the axle? If the axle is slightly slid to one side in the hangers, (u-bolts) the drawbar can be angled slightly and the distance between the coupler and the axle threads or hubs could still appear to be correct.

 

[flb_78]

It's very possible the initial set of tires were crap, but what are the odds that the set from WalMart were crap as well?

 

If I read this correctly, this is the 2nd set that have worn out exactly the same way.

[Squidley]

Brian,

 

The only issue that I could think of is that the tongue bar might have shifted. The actual square portion of the main frame is welded at the factory, no bolts assembling this one. I dont think we checked the actual squareness of the weldment, but it shouldn't have made a difference as our axle measurements were spot on pretty much.

 

As I recall it the pull bar was centered in the width of the assembly, but this is a bolt on piece and very well could have shifted. I always weld mine together when I assemble the kit trailers and make double sure my dimensions are perfect. We'll get with Zipcode and make sure it's all where it's supposed to be. Thanks for helping him along with the trouble shooting of it

[Squidley]

It's very possible the initial set of tires were crap, but what are the odds that the set from WalMart were crap as well?

 

If I read this correctly, this is the 2nd set that have worn out exactly the same way.

 

 

You have a good point there Forest, I'll be interested to see what we come up with. I agree that the tires should last at least 15K for miles, we'll figure it out and help get him squared away.

[Flyinfool]

That was my thought also.

4 for 4 on bad tires and or rims from 2 different sources is starting to be a stretch.

 

Just because all of the assembly dimensions are correct does mot mean that the alignment is correct. There can still be a lot of toe in which will still track perfect. A lot of toe out would be squirmy, had one like that once, not fun. Do the simple toe measurement that I posted above and lets go from there.

[MikeWa]

The tires are overinflated. Worn completely out in the center with little to no wear on the outer edges. If there is also a toe or alignment problem the tire will be feathered. I am unable to see if this is the case from the pictures. Google 'feathered tires' and you will see what to look for.

Mike

 

PS.

It occurred to me if this is a straight axle excessive bounce on one side will cause the other to scrub. Couple that with excessive air pressure and you get worn tires. Does this thing have shocks? If so check them.

Edited July 26, 2010 by MikeWa

[Dave77459]

Dave get with me and we'll either come to your place or you can shoot out here and we will inspect the trailer to see if there is some damage that occurred somewhere on the trip....glad to see you made it home

I feel like I am taking advantage of your kindness, but I'll pull her out there and we can look. Should I keep it loaded like I pulled? Does it matter? I can't believe that I loaded it really poorly or unusually, but heck, it's me you are talking about.

 

Just to confirm a question, yes, I am now running a second set of complete tire/wheel assemblies. The OEMs were nylon, and these are rubber.

 

MikeWa, this doesn't have shocks. It has simple leaf springs.

 

I remember that when we assembled it, we thought it looked pretty idiot proof. Isn't that funny?

 

Dave

[MikeWa]

I don't know what is causing your bounce. Short tung, light load, heavy springs etc. But if all else fails soften the springs and weld a couple of light weight shocks on it. You will probably cure it. Or take it back and get another one.

Mike

[juggler]

Is this HF trailer bolted together or welded? I've seen many HF trailers in their stores and the ones that are just bolted together look like the bolts could vibrate loose and then the whole trailer gets out of square. So even though was was tight and square when assembled, many miles down the road it may not be.

 

Just a guess on my part and one thing to double check.

[bdyohecomcast.net]

do the toe in toe out measurement lower your air pressure you can have a a small fraction of toe in toe out ,out of alingment prob 1/16 and you,ll be good there. it only takes a couple of minutes to be sure . also extend the angle or 2x4 on one side and ck the tounge to see if it runs paralel with the tires. one other thing make sure the trailer is level when you ck it . it will make a differance. beleive me i know how much a small amount out can wear tires or make something bounce. my car does about 125 mph on a dirt track every wk end and has to be adjusted every wk trailer is not as touchy but still has to be properly alinged. bill

[barend]

For what it's worth, I pulled my wheel and it has: a worn bearing; a low spot on one side of the thread (pretty abrupt drop over about 4-6 inches of the circumference) and I have a slight side to side wobble (though that could be from the bearings ...I think)

[Squidley]

I feel like I am taking advantage of your kindness, but I'll pull her out there and we can look. Should I keep it loaded like I pulled? Does it matter? I can't believe that I loaded it really poorly or unusually

 

Dave,

 

I offered, so dont feel like your taking advantage my friend. I talked with Ponch and we'll see about getting over there and taking some measurements. I think a good idea also is for us to take the trailer into the shop and we'll weld the tongue solid so the whole frame assembly is solid and can't move....we'll get it figured out before you head out in September :thumbsup2:

[Dave77459]

Dave,

 

I offered, so dont feel like your taking advantage my friend. I talked with Ponch and we'll see about getting over there and taking some measurements. I think a good idea also is for us to take the trailer into the shop and we'll weld the tongue solid so the whole frame assembly is solid and can't move....we'll get it figured out before you head out in September :thumbsup2:

You don't need to come here. I'll go wherever you guys want. I truly appreciate your offer and expertise.

 

Dave

[Dave77459]

Yesterday I went to Kreggerdoodles to change my rear tire. I had my trailer with me when his neighbor came over. I gather that he does tire work as part of his job, and we showed him my bald tires.

 

He detected feathering in the tread. It is his belief that the tires are toed in/out to some degree. Kreg lent me his long straight edge, so I'll take a stab tonight to see if I can measure some toeing.

 

Darn it.

 

Dave

[V7Goose]

Dave, I do not know what kind of straight edge you have, but I'll describe a method that should be easy to do and quickly spot any problems. For a straight edge, you can use boards or electrical conduit. You need something 8 feet or longer. Even a sheet of plywood would be perfect, as the side will absolutely be straight. If you need to buy something, go to the hardware store and look for some board at least 4" wide (1x4, 2x4, 2x6, etc.). You can easily see if they are straight by carefully sighting down the side or laying the edge on the cement floor.

 

Now that you have a straight edge you will use (I'll call it a board now because that is shorter), put the trailer in the driveway with the hitch touching a wall or garage door. Use a carpenter's square (or 1/2 sheet of plywood - the original outside edges will be perfectly square) to ensure the tongue is perfectly square with the wall. Now take your straight edge and put one end against the wall and raise the rear of it so the edge crosses the center of the wheel; this will give you the widest cross section to ensure the board is actually straight with the tire. Mark the inside edge where the front of the board touches the wall, then use the square to mark a perfectly vertical line from that point up to about 2 feet.

 

Next, hold the board about level with the center of the tire and mark where the front of the board touches the wall - that SHOULD be exactly on the line you just marked. Finally, drop the rear of the board down to the driveway and hold the front of the board on the line so that the board again crossed through the center of the tire, and mark the point where the inside edge touches the driveway. Repeat this process on the other side of the trailer.

 

Finally, before you move the trailer, make sure you carefully mark both sides of the hitch on the driveway so that you have a point to measure to the corner.

 

Now all that is left is to move the trailer and carefully measure the distance between the front points, between the back points (should obviously be exactly the same measurement as the front),a nd then the distance from the left front corner to the left side of the hitch, then from the right front corner to the right side of the hitch.

 

If anything is off at all, something in this process will show it.

Goose

[Dave77459]

Dave, I do not know what kind of straight edge you have, but I'll describe a method that should be easy to do and quickly spot any problems. For a straight edge, you can use boards or electrical conduit. You need something 8 feet or longer. Even a sheet of plywood would be perfect, as the side will absolutely be straight. If you need to buy something, go to the hardware store and look for some board at least 4" wide (1x4, 2x4, 2x6, etc.). You can easily see if they are straight by carefully sighting down the side or laying the edge on the cement floor.

 

Now that you have a straight edge you will use (I'll call it a board now because that is shorter), put the trailer in the driveway with the hitch touching a wall or garage door. Use a carpenter's square (or 1/2 sheet of plywood - the original outside edges will be perfectly square) to ensure the tongue is perfectly square with the wall. Now take your straight edge and put one end against the wall and raise the rear of it so the edge crosses the center of the wheel; this will give you the widest cross section to ensure the board is actually straight with the tire. Mark the inside edge where the front of the board touches the wall, then use the square to mark a perfectly vertical line from that point up to about 2 feet.

 

Next, hold the board about level with the center of the tire and mark where the front of the board touches the wall - that SHOULD be exactly on the line you just marked. Finally, drop the rear of the board down to the driveway and hold the front of the board on the line so that the board again crossed through the center of the tire, and mark the point where the inside edge touches the driveway. Repeat this process on the other side of the trailer.

 

Finally, before you move the trailer, make sure you carefully mark both sides of the hitch on the driveway so that you have a point to measure to the corner.

 

Now all that is left is to move the trailer and carefully measure the distance between the front points, between the back points (should obviously be exactly the same measurement as the front),a nd then the distance from the left front corner to the left side of the hitch, then from the right front corner to the right side of the hitch.

 

If anything is off at all, something in this process will show it.

Goose

 

I'm not sure what to think here. Our 2x4s are hardly straight. From past experience, I doubt I could find one straight. They all have bows or twists, or something. Most are junk, and I think using them as wall studs is a problem.

 

As far as plywood, my hat is off to you if you can fling it around like that. Here in the Houston Hot, I would be worn out just getting it out of the truck I'd have to rent to carry it. You must be much beefier than you look!

 

Maybe some electrical conduit will work, although finding an 8' straight length might be a problem.

 

Dave

[V7Goose]

I'm not sure what to think here. Our 2x4s are hardly straight. From past experience, I doubt I could find one straight. They all have bows or twists, or something. Most are junk, and I think using them as wall studs is a problem.

 

As far as plywood, my hat is off to you if you can fling it around like that. Here in the Houston Hot, I would be worn out just getting it out of the truck I'd have to rent to carry it. You must be much beefier than you look!

 

Maybe some electrical conduit will work, although finding an 8' straight length might be a problem.

 

Dave

Well Davie boy, you just need to take a little more time at Home Dept when you look for this stuff. Straight boards really are not that hard to find - not saying all of them are straight, by any means, but some of them are, and you are only looking for one. And that is why I said to focus on something at least 4" wide - the wider the board, the less side warp in some of them. Any hardwood will tend to be much more true than cheap pine 2x4s, but of course they will cost more.

 

As for conduit - the vast majority of new ones will be perfectly straight, but they are not my first choice because they CAN get bent while you are using them (but they do not bend all that easy). And a sheet of paneling is thin and light. But I mainly suggested the plywood just in case you might have a sheet laying around - you never know. And here is one more idea - look at the crown moldings - find a wide one. Most of those are carefully milled and have enough different shapes to keep them from flexing sideways too much, and they will tend to be very straight.

 

Just trying to give you some ideas and options, but I'll shut up if you think they are too ridiculous to be worth your time.

Goose

[Dave77459]

Well Davie boy, you just need to take a little more time at Home Dept when you look for this stuff. Straight boards really are not that hard to find - not saying all of them are straight, by any means, but some of them are, and you are only looking for one. And that is why I said to focus on something at least 4" wide - the wider the board, the less side warp in some of them. Any hardwood will tend to be much more true than cheap pine 2x4s, but of course they will cost more.

 

As for conduit - the vast majority of new ones will be perfectly straight, but they are not my first choice because they CAN get bent while you are using them (but they do not bend all that easy). And a sheet of paneling is thin and light. But I mainly suggested the plywood just in case you might have a sheet laying around - you never know. And here is one more idea - look at the crown moldings - find a wide one. Most of those are carefully milled and have enough different shapes to keep them from flexing sideways too much, and they will tend to be very straight.

 

Just trying to give you some ideas and options, but I'll shut up if you think they are too ridiculous to be worth your time.

Goose

No, not so. The devil is in the details, is all. I wonder if the stores have angle iron? That seems more rigid and less likely to warp.

 

Dave

[Guest tx2sturgis]

If your willing to spend the money, you could buy a sheet of plexiglass, or clear acrylic, and maybe have the guy cut them in 12 inch wide strips. Depends on whether you want to spend the money. Those should be pretty accurate on the factory edge, and fairly easy to move around. You can also use 8 foot fluorescent tubes but they tend to be fragile and have no way to easily square them up perpendicular to a wall, other than maybe a carpenters square.

 

One problem with this scenario, is that these little trailer wheels and tires, when cool, have a very small amount of slop in the bearings when properly torqued. That might throw the readings off just a tad...so if you go to all this trouble, then its a good idea to slightly over-torque the castle-nut before the test, then re-torque it properly when your finished.

 

Or you could take the trailer to someone with a frame-aligment rig, also called a frame straightener. You can find these at some body shops and/or junkyards.

 

By the way Goose...I'm pulling out either Wedsnesday or Thursday depending on my riding buddies, and dragging my Tag-Along trailer all the way, with about 12 PSI in the 8 inch tires. Your welcome to come along with your 'experimental' trailer.

 

Edited August 2, 2010 by tx2sturgis