Harbor Freight Tag-along ride report

[Solodadof2]

Carpet the inside of the trailer with Custruction adhesive and car carpetting all will be fine on the rubbing.

[flb_78]

Can you take pictures of both tires, left and right and tell us which side was pointing forward? Just looking at 1 picture of 1 tire leaves a lot to be questioned.

[V7Goose]

By the way Goose...I'm pulling out either Wedsnesday or Thursday depending on my riding buddies, and dragging my Tag-Along trailer all the way, with about 12 PSI in the 8 inch tires. Your welcome to come along with your 'experimental' trailer.

 

Thanx for the invite, but for me Sturgis no longer holds any interest whatsoever. It was interesting back in the 70's - last time I went was probably about 1984. Now I personally find it crass commercialism and not an interesting biker destination. I'd much rather wander around the Texas border!

 

And there is nothing "'experimental'" about my trailer - it is just a standard HF utility trailer that was put together with care and is completely true. I pull it with LOTS more air in the tires than you do, and after about 10,000 miles the tires show ZERO wear, which proves that in this case you don't know as much as you think you do.

 

But I hope y'all have a safe and enjoyable trip.

Goose

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Thanx for the invite, but for me Sturgis no longer holds any interest whatsoever. It was interesting back in the 70's - last time I went was probably about 1984. Now I personally find it crass commercialism and not an interesting biker destination. I'd much rather wander around the Texas border!

 

And there is nothing "'experimental'" about my trailer - it is just a standard HF utility trailer that was put together with care and is completely true. I pull it with LOTS more air in the tires than you do, and after about 10,000 miles the tires show ZERO wear, which proves that in this case you don't know as much as you think you do.

 

But I hope y'all have a safe and enjoyable trip.

Goose

 

You can always stay in another town or ride up to Canada or over to Yellowstone to get the miles on it. I trust you.

 

 

 

10,000 miles and ZERO wear? Wow...what brand of tires are those? And it always depends on the load the tires are carrying....I never said running fully inflated tires will wear them out, UNLESS the load on the tires is so light that only the middle section of the tires is touching...in Daves case, there is evidence that the tires were overinflated for the load he had. In my case, my little trailer only weighs about 120-150 pounds fully loaded. So running 50 PSI would be too much. With around 60-75 pounds of weight on each tire, running them in 'floatation mode' is perfect, the rubber sidewalls hold up the load, rather than the air in the tire.

 

But to each his own. I'll send tweets with pics on my twitter site:

 

Your welcome to look at the pics as I go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trader]

For a straight edge, you can use boards or electrical conduit. You need something 8 feet or longer. Even a sheet of plywood would be perfect, as the side will absolutely be straight. If you need to buy something, go to the hardware store and look for some board at least 4" wide (1x4, 2x4, 2x6, etc.). You can easily see if they are straight by carefully sighting down the side or laying the edge on the cement floor.

 

Goose

 

Another thread on this site where someone suggested using 8 ft. florescent light tubes. (there were pics too!)

For sure they will straight...and you may have some from the shop lighting anyway!!

[Dave77459]

Kreggerdoodle lent me his 48" straightedge. Before I did a more complicated procedure, I decided on the simple test first. I took off the wheels and put the straightedge along the left wheel flange (?)... where the bolts stick out. I was struck that I could see that the left wheel pointed left.

 

I measured the left side in two places. The center of the axle hub was at 46". At 22", the straightedge was 5-3/4" away from the tongue. At 2", it was at 6-1/16" away. In other words, the straight edge moved out 5/16" over a 20" distance.

 

OK, the tongue may not be at a right angle to the axle. I measured the other side. At 22" and 2", it was at 5-7/8". Due to a difference in elevation, I say the 22" point is closer than measured... they might have been at 5-1/2" and 5-5/8".

 

Anyways, both tires are pointed out, one more than the other. I reckon... anyone disagree?

 

flb_78 wanted photos, and here they are. You are looking at the back end of the trailer, the rear of the tires. These photos ought to blow up pretty huge, so gaze away.

 

Dave

 

Top view

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4855687126_6f4ebda034_o.jpg

 

Left Wheel 1

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4855062491_b8e024f032_o.jpg

 

Left Wheel 2

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4855063279_20ffb297ec_o.jpg

 

Right Wheel 1

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4855684906_088c81503e_o.jpg

 

Right Wheel 2

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4855686410_b026910921_o.jpg

[flb_78]

I think your tires were overinflated for the load which they were carrying. That would cause the centers to wear out over time and would probably never be noticed, but the wear is being aggravated by the tires pointing outwards so they're actually scuffing the road while they're rolling. I don't think that lowering the tire pressures would have prevented the wear. You may be able to flip or rotate the axle to change the bend in it. I can't recall how the axle is mounted on a HF trailer.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Hmmm....veeeewwyyy interesting as the german guy used to say on Laugh-in.

 

It looks like you had some scrubbing going on, AND too much wear in the middle due to 45 and 50 PSI in the tires. Apparently if you had lower pressure, you may STILL have had advanced wear, but maybe across the whole tire tread, instead of just in the middle of the tread face.

 

So it may turn out that we all were right in the diagnosis.

 

Over inflation: Correct.

 

Wheel mis-alignment: Ditto.

 

Does it look like the axle can be rotated 90 or 180 degrees? Or flipped left to right?

 

[Yammy]

I haven't the solution to your problem but you might try removing the extra leaf spring, it should help with the bounce when running lite. As suggested measure the end of the axle to tongue they should be the same on both sides. Lift the wheels off the ground and spin them, is there a wobble? Does the axle look straight? Also check the bed from corner to corner it also should be the same and be ridged so it can't move and go out of square. Also measure the front leaf mount to the front corner on each side, they sould be the same.

As Goose said pressure is the least of your problems.

 

For what its worth, I've been running 45-50 psi with no signs of wear after 20,000

[Guest tx2sturgis]

As Goose said pressure is the least of your problems.

 

For what its worth, I've been running 45-50 psi with no signs of wear after 20,000

 

I bet those arent 8 inch tires.

 

If you are loading the trailer with enough weight, then 45-50 PSI is fine. But a lightly loaded trailer will wear out the center of the 8 inch tires tread face at that PSI, sooner or later, since the edges of the tread are not touching the pavement.

[Yammy]

 

I bet those arent 8 inch tires.

 

If you are loading the trailer with enough weight, then 45-50 PSI is fine. But a lightly loaded trailer will wear out the center of the 8 inch tires tread face at that PSI, sooner or later, since the edges of the tread are not touching the pavement.

 

Yes, their 8 inch. It's usually loaded, everything needed for camping including a bring your own bed. Too old for sleeping on the ground.

[V7Goose]

 

I bet those arent 8 inch tires.

 

If you are loading the trailer with enough weight, then 45-50 PSI is fine. But a lightly loaded trailer will wear out the center of the 8 inch tires tread face at that PSI, sooner or later, since the edges of the tread are not touching the pavement.

Another bet lost. Man, you just can't let go of something, even when faced with the evidence that it has little or no bearing on the subject at hand.

 

NO ONE in this thread has even once disagreed with the fact that an overinflated tire will cause the center of the tread to push out and touch the road first, but that still has ABSOLUTELY ZERO relevance to Dave's problem. We have said repeatedly that you are completely wrong in suggesting that it will cause a tire to be ruined in just 2,000 miles.

 

Dave started this post with the problem that his trailer tires were ruined in only 2,000 miles. The fact is, absolutely no tires of any size or type on a light weight trailer (without problems) will show any significant wear in 2,000 miles, and the air pressure in those tires, of any size or type, has absolutely NOTHING to do with that fact. So continuing to harp on the idea that they are overinflated provides ZERO assistance to someone actually trying to figure out what the REAL problem might be.

 

I am not suggesting that your ideas are wrong about how much air works well in this type of tire and application, just that it has nothing to do with Dave's actual problem. Let's help him get his problem fixed first, THEN worry about what tire pressure he wants to run.

Goose

Edited August 3, 2010 by V7Goose

[Dave77459]

I think your tires were overinflated for the load which they were carrying. That would cause the centers to wear out over time and would probably never be noticed, but the wear is being aggravated by the tires pointing outwards so they're actually scuffing the road while they're rolling. I don't think that lowering the tire pressures would have prevented the wear. You may be able to flip or rotate the axle to change the bend in it. I can't recall how the axle is mounted on a HF trailer.

 

The assembly is designed to be fool proof. The main frame of the trailer is a welded square.(1) There are two receivers per side, where the leaf spring assembly bolts in. The leaf spring themselves are a single unit with two leafs, and the outer leaf has a pin sticking out (down, as the trailer sits).(2)

 

The axle is a convenient C-shape, with a hole for the pin. Thus, the axle aligns automatically.(3)

 

I use the term 'convenient' ironically, because now I cannot rotate the axle.

 

 

Figure 1

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4856300727_74e9b3105c_o.png

 

 

Figure 2

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4856918844_19f4a28d10_o.png

 

Figure 3

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4856919198_b134e24052_o.png

 

I haven't the solution to your problem but you might try removing the extra leaf spring, it should help with the bounce when running lite.

 

The outer leaf is welded/bonded to the inner. You can maybe see in Figs 2 and 3 that it doesn't go all the way to the rear of the assembly. Also, the outer has the pin for aligning the axle. In short, it cannot simply be removed.

 

As suggested measure the end of the axle to tongue they should be the same on both sides.

 

Measured when constructed by Squidley and Ponch, who knew what they were doing.

 

Lift the wheels off the ground and spin them, is there a wobble?

 

None.

 

Does the axle look straight?

 

Haven't flipped the trailer upside down to look.

 

Also check the bed from corner to corner it also should be the same and be ridged so it can't move and go out of square.

 

It is welded rigid, and IIRC, Ponch checked it during construction.

 

Also measure the front leaf mount to the front corner on each side, they sould be the same.

 

? Not sure what this means.

 

As Goose said pressure is the least of your problems.

 

For what its worth, I've been running 45-50 psi with no signs of wear after 20,000

 

Thank you for your suggestions and help. Comments above in bold red.

 

I appreciate everyone's help, and am enjoying the clash of wagering Titans.

 

Dave

[Trader]

The assembly is designed to be fool proof. The main frame of the trailer is a welded square

 

 

Might be a silly question...but did you check to ensure that the frame is indeed welded SQUARE?

[Dave77459]

Might be a silly question...but did you check to ensure that the frame is indeed welded SQUARE?

I call your attention to this comment:

 

Also check the bed from corner to corner it also should be the same and be ridged so it can't move and go out of square.

 

It is welded rigid, and IIRC, Ponch checked it during construction.

[flb_78]

I think you should go pick up a pair of straight edges from Home Depot or Lowes or any other hardware store and do both flanges at the same time. On Lowes website, they have one made by Swanson which is 72" long. The Home Depot site shows they sell a 60" edge. They're only $10 each on either site. You would then be able to check the hubs to each other. I think that since it was been welded together that Harbor Freight will not assist with any type of warranty. I think the only way this can be repaired is by heating and bending the axle.

 

Another option, albeit a pricey one, is to remove the axle and leaf springs and convert it to torsion hubs. You could then align each hub to the frame and have a better ride for the trailer.

 

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200335740_200335740

[V7Goose]

Dave, those pictures show that your trailer is clearly a very different animal than the HF utility trailer that I built. But then I guess I knew that from the beginning when you said the frame was welded.

 

Your measurement and picture with the straightedge is enough to prove pretty conclusively that there is something major wrong with that trailer. If it was me, I'd just insist HF replace it.

Goose

[Solodadof2]

Here is one as cheap as the trailer was, and as cheap as the tires are take a couple extra's with you and throw them away. LoL One of the guys i used to ride with built a trailer on a harbor freight frame and had the same thing happen. He ended up having to adjust the toe in and the axle just slightly. Good Luck!

[Squidley]

Your measurement and picture with the straightedge is enough to prove pretty conclusively that there is something major wrong with that trailer. If it was me, I'd just insist HF replace it.

Goose

 

We talked about that last night, he's going get ahold of HF and see about getting a new axle. I also have a spare one that Dray gave to me from when he had issues with his HF trailer. I'd be willing to bet that the spindles arent welded square with the cross tube. Worst case is I'll bring it into the shop here and either heat and tweak or just cut them off and weld them on right.

[Dave77459]

I think you should go pick up a pair of straight edges from Home Depot or Lowes or any other hardware store and do both flanges at the same time. On Lowes website, they have one made by Swanson which is 72" long. The Home Depot site shows they sell a 60" edge. They're only $10 each on either site. You would then be able to check the hubs to each other. I think that since it was been welded together that Harbor Freight will not assist with any type of warranty. I think the only way this can be repaired is by heating and bending the axle.

 

Another option, albeit a pricey one, is to remove the axle and leaf springs and convert it to torsion hubs. You could then align each hub to the frame and have a better ride for the trailer.

 

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200335740_200335740

 

The box is welded, and the flange is welded to the axle (wrong, I think). All the welding was by HF. I'll find out in an hour or so when they open if they will honor their warranty.

 

Dave, those pictures show that your trailer is clearly a very different animal than the HF utility trailer that I built. But then I guess I knew that from the beginning when you said the frame was welded.

 

Your measurement and picture with the straightedge is enough to prove pretty conclusively that there is something major wrong with that trailer. If it was me, I'd just insist HF replace it.

Goose

 

Yes, I'm calling when they open.

 

Here is one as cheap as the trailer was, and as cheap as the tires are take a couple extra's with you and throw them away. LoL One of the guys i used to ride with built a trailer on a harbor freight frame and had the same thing happen. He ended up having to adjust the toe in and the axle just slightly. Good Luck!

You know, because spending $160 in tires on each trip is cheap? And mounting them in Zion National Park will be a great way to spend my vacation time? "You go take the tour honey; I'll be getting greasy swapping out tires."

 

Dave

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Another bet lost. Man, you just can't let go of something, even when faced with the evidence that it has little or no bearing on the subject at hand.

Amazing that he got 20,000 miles on 8 inch tires, but that is not 'another' bet lost....

 

NO ONE in this thread has even once disagreed with the fact that an overinflated tire will cause the center of the tread to push out and touch the road first, but that still has ABSOLUTELY ZERO relevance to Dave's problem. We have said repeatedly that you are completely wrong in suggesting that it will cause a tire to be ruined in just 2,000 miles.

 

Dave started this post with the problem that his trailer tires were ruined in only 2,000 miles. The fact is, absolutely no tires of any size or type on a light weight trailer (without problems) will show any significant wear in 2,000 miles, and the air pressure in those tires, of any size or type, has absolutely NOTHING to do with that fact. So continuing to harp on the idea that they are overinflated provides ZERO assistance to someone actually trying to figure out what the REAL problem might be.

 

 

When you say "NO tires of any size or type"...just how sure are you? I can mail you a pair of tires I wore out in less than 1000 miles of trailer pulling..I have witnesses if need be....admittedly they were not these 8 inch tires, they were 10 inch scooter-type tires on my Motorvation trailer. But over-inflation killed them in just a couple of days of riding, about 800 miles.

 

I am not suggesting that your ideas are wrong about how much air works well in this type of tire and application, just that it has nothing to do with Dave's actual problem. Let's help him get his problem fixed first, THEN worry about what tire pressure he wants to run.

Goose

 

Thats my focus also, as I stated in my PM to you.

 

When Dave measured his tire pressures at 35 PSI for the first set, and 45-50 PSI for the second set, that tells me that he was running too much air for the load he had, and it contributed to the advanced wear.

 

If there is some small misalignment, that will contribute also, and I never said "BS"...as you suggested my statement about over-inflation was.

 

But those pictures he posted show OVER-INFLATION. Period. Other factors may have acelerated the wear, but the fact is, those tires were over inflated for the load he was carrying.

 

My conclusion is that Dave should run less air pressure in those tires. If the alignment is off by some amount, well by all means, that needs to be fixed also.

 

Edited August 3, 2010 by tx2sturgis

[flb_78]

The box is welded, and the flange is welded to the axle (wrong, I think). All the welding was by HF. I'll find out in an hour or so when they open if they will honor their warranty.

 

 

 

Yes, I'm calling when they open.

 

 

ah, ok then, This is a prefab unit. That's way different then what I was thinking it was with my limited experience with HF trailers.

 

Yup, make em replace the axle under warranty.

[V7Goose]

Harbor freight is pretty good about taking care of you. When I bought my trailer one of the fenders didn't look quite right and one of the zerk fittings in one wheel was twisted off. They replaced both the fender and the wheel without any argument at all.

 

The reason I suggested you insist on a whole new trailer was so you didn't have to keep looking for what else might be wrong. But at any rate, you should insist they also replace the tires since they are only ruined because the trailer is faulty. You already had to dump your own money on one set just to get home, but you shouldn't have to pay to replace them again!

Goose

[Dave77459]

Well, I haven't called yet (stupid Pacific time zone), but I just now read their warranty:

 

* 90 days from purchase (yesterday was the 90th day, today is Day 91)

 

* Send the unit to them for inspection, transportation charges paid by me. I spent over $100 in shipping the first time!

 

I hope they are better than what their warranty specifies.

 

Dave

[V7Goose]

Did you order from the catalog? I always deal with a local store, and they take care of everything right there. Your 90 days hopefully won't be an issue since your evidence is clear proof the problem existed before the 90 days was up. If they insist on an inspection, see if you can take it to a local HF store and have them do the inspection.

Goose