Harbor Freight Tag-along ride report

[Solodadof2]

Dave,

 

Do you have a local Harbor Frieght Store? or one nearby? Maybe you could take it directly to the store. This trailer is identical to a piggy backer, and the good folks over at Piggy backer are ticked. When they first came out a HF people trying to buy accessories from Piggybacker, like the cooler rack etc. Now I understand that you have to have a serial from a piggybacker to purchase accessories from them. To me if you are not making money on the trailer make money on the accessories. Anyway Best of Luck I have read a lot of success stories with the HF trailer on different forums.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Dave,

 

This trailer is identical to a piggy backer, and the good folks over at Piggy backer are ticked.

 

Cant blame them there....its a Chinese knockoff at half the price. And maybe the quality control is suffering...could be that the spindles on Daves unit are not welded straight and true.

 

We already know that many owners of these HF units have to service and/or replace the bearings before they take them on a trip. Of course, human falliblity being what it is, when I bought my brand-new $1200 Motorvation trailer in 1999, made in Iowa, USA, the left side bearing was improperly torqued, and at about 200 miles I reached down and felt the hubs, and WOW! That left side hub was HOT! In fact it had a slight smell of burning oil...not a good thing.

 

Luckily one of the travelers in our group had the right tools so that I could service it right there in the rest area. I loosened the castle nut a full turn or so and we were on our way.

 

It's very frustrating to have this stuff happen on the road...I sincerely hope for a good outcome in Daves case.

[Dave77459]

OK!

 

I called and there was no discussion at all -- they honored the warranty.

 

He asked me what parts I needed, and I requested the Axle, the Hubs, and two Wheels. He went and checked, and they will send them.

 

Problem: they don't stock parts, so they have to get them from the manufacturer in China. That will be 6-8 weeks. :( However, they will check their warehouse for used parts and send those. I really don't mind, as long as they are true! I have a trip in 3 weeks... 6 weeks would be painful.

 

I honestly didn't want a whole new trailer. I've begun making mods (LED lights) and put trip stickers on the inside lid. I know it isn't much modification, but it's mine.

 

I realize now that the hubs and the axle are separate parts. What is the chance that they will be user serviceable/adjustable?

 

As far as the Piggyback, Kreg and I put ours side by side and couldn't see much difference, if any. He had a nice chrome back bumper, but that was it.

 

Dave

[Guest tx2sturgis]

OK!

 

I called and there was no discussion at all -- they honored the warranty.

 

He asked me what parts I needed, and I requested the Axle, the Hubs, and two Wheels. He went and checked, and they will send them.

 

Problem: they don't stock parts, so they have to get them from the manufacturer in China. That will be 6-8 weeks. :( However, they will check their warehouse for used parts and send those. I really don't mind, as long as they are true! I have a trip in 3 weeks... 6 weeks would be painful.

 

 

I wonder if they could send a complete new unit to a store near you, and let you remove the parts you need from the shipping carton or pallet. Then when the new parts arrive at the store, the store can just replace them in the carton, and the package will be 'whole' again....

[Dave77459]

I wonder if they could send a complete new unit to a store near you, and let you remove the parts you need from the shipping carton or pallet. Then when the new parts arrive at the store, the store can just replace them in the carton, and the package will be 'whole' again....

That would make too much sense. They seem very reluctant to ship orders to the store. Like it is a SHALT NOT policy. It's a shame, because it would seem more efficient and cheaper.

 

Dave

[Flyinfool]

If HF does not want the old parts back, don't toss out the old stuff.

The hubs and bearings should still be fine as spares.

It is the axle that is bad and the worn out tires.

There are some people on here that have the ability to fix the axle and I would get that done, it might make for a good spare part for someone in need.

 

When you get the new axle, get out your straight edges and check it right away. The new one could be just as bad as the old one. You may need to end up using your repaired old axle for your upcoming trip.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Well this has been one of the liveliest trailer topics I've seen in here. Bet you had no idea you could generate this kinda traffic with balding tires. Kinda fun....maybe me and Goose can take our sparring gloves off for a day or three. I need a vacation from my vacation!

 

 

Any chance you could make them give you a complete new trailer and return yours, minus the lid and new lites? Make the swap of parts in the store?

 

Talking nicely to a manager might get it done, especially since you've already talked to Customer Service.

[Dave77459]

If HF does not want the old parts back, don't toss out the old stuff.

The hubs and bearings should still be fine as spares.

It is the axle that is bad and the worn out tires.

There are some people on here that have the ability to fix the axle and I would get that done, it might make for a good spare part for someone in need.

 

When you get the new axle, get out your straight edges and check it right away. The new one could be just as bad as the old one. You may need to end up using your repaired old axle for your upcoming trip.

I don't think they want the parts back -- no mention of it -- and I'll not be tossing it. Heck, I've still got 6 old tires, just in case someone needs one in a pinch! LOL

 

Great advice, though, thanks.

 

Well this has been one of the liveliest trailer topics I've seen in here. Bet you had no idea you could generate this kinda traffic with balding tires. Kinda fun....maybe me and Goose can take our sparring gloves off for a day or three. I need a vacation from my vacation!

 

 

Any chance you could make them give you a complete new trailer and return yours, minus the lid and new lites? Make the swap of parts in the store?

 

Talking nicely to a manager might get it done, especially since you've already talked to Customer Service.

Maybe it could get done, but Houston-area stores don't stock this trailer. If they did, I would have save $100 in shipping, and been able to use my 20% off coupon.

 

I'm glad for all the suggestions and discussion. Believe it or not, the various shots back and forth brought me some clarity. I'll not run the full pressure, for one thing. I'd never really done my due diligence on what MAX pressure meant.

 

So thanks for all your input!

 

dAVE

[Yammy]

The assembly is designed to be fool proof. The main frame of the trailer is a welded square.(1) There are two receivers per side, where the leaf spring assembly bolts in. The leaf spring themselves are a single unit with two leafs, and the outer leaf has a pin sticking out (down, as the trailer sits).(2)

 

The axle is a convenient C-shape, with a hole for the pin. Thus, the axle aligns automatically.(3)

 

I use the term 'convenient' ironically, because now I cannot rotate the axle.

 

 

Figure 1

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4856300727_74e9b3105c_o.png

 

 

Figure 2

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4856918844_19f4a28d10_o.png

 

Figure 3

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4856919198_b134e24052_o.png

 

 

 

Thank you for your suggestions and help. Comments above in bold red.

 

I appreciate everyone's help, and am enjoying the clash of wagering Titans.

 

Dave

 

This isn't the same trailor i have.

Not to be disrespectful but the quality assurance of these trailers may not be to the standards of north america. I my case I had to buy a new castle nut because it was threaded crooked.

[barend]

When you say "NO tires of any size or type"...just how sure are you? I can mail you a pair of tires I wore out in less than 1000 miles of trailer pulling..I have witnesses if need be....admittedly they were not these 8 inch tires, they were 10 inch scooter-type tires on my Motorvation trailer. But over-inflation killed them in just a couple of days of riding, about 800 miles.

 

But those pictures he posted show OVER-INFLATION. Period. Other factors may have acelerated the wear, but the fact is, those tires were over inflated for the load he was carrying.

 

My conclusion is that Dave should run less air pressure in those tires. If the alignment is off by some amount, well by all means, that needs to be fixed also.

 

 

Give it a rest Texas, you're so hung up on that blasted tire pressure, you can't seem to see the whole picture! Yes, since only the center of the tread is worn, you are correct in stating that he can and probably should run a lower pressure. What I fear you're ignoring is that a lower tire pressure would have simply shown the entire tread worn off. So we all agree that lowering tire pressures would improve the handling (less bounce, etc), but it doesn't do squat for the actual problem, namely tires lasting only 2000 miles, and that my friend, has nothing to do with overinflated tires.

 

As far as your scooter tires only lasting 800 miles, most of those things are only rated for 50-60mph and with your apparent propensity for running under inflated tires AND running them on a trailer probably going faster then the rated speed, hmmm, you don't suppose you killed them because of that, do you ...??

 

Now you kids want to argue about how to fix this mans trailer problems fine!, but can the chatter about tire pressure

[Guest tx2sturgis]

By any chance did that axle have front and rear arrows, or L and R stamped on it anywhere?

 

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Give it a rest Texas, you're so hung up on that blasted tire pressure, you can't seem to see the whole picture!

 

 

The whole picture meaning discussing wheel alignment? I did that in these posts:

 

32, 50, 58, 71, 77, 79, 82, and 86.

 

I think you might be missing something, but not me.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as your scooter tires only lasting 800 miles, most of those things are only rated for 50-60mph and with your apparent propensity for running under inflated tires AND running them on a trailer probably going faster then the rated speed, hmmm, you don't suppose you killed them because of that, do you ...??

 

 

That trailer was a new unit from Motorvation. Some of their units come from the factory with integral wheel/hub units, shod in scooter-type tires, very similar to motorcycle wheels. They are quite popular, attractive, and expensive. Unfortunately, the seller does not tell you that they wear out pretty quickly. A few thousand miles is all you will get from those tires under the best loading conditions. Heres why:

 

The scooter tires, normally fitted on a scooter, or motorcycle tires normally fitted on a motorcycle, are both single-track vehicles...they lean in turns. Well, a 2 wheel trailer does NOT lean in turns. When you air up the tire enough that the tire wont come off the bead, then what you have is a tire that is inflated more than is nescasary for the load its carrying. Hence the relatively narrow tire runs on the center of the tread ONLY.

 

After quickly wearing out 2 sets of tires, I placed a call to the owner of the company. She told me they have not figured out a solution with those wheels, but that I should always pull the trailer loaded as heavy as possible.

 

I tried that also, and it did not help. Scooter tires are generally pretty soft rubber, and used in a trailer scenario, they wear out fast, squaring off the tire, and leaving plenty of tread on the edges, but wearing to the wear bars in a few thousand miles or less.

 

The problem is that out on the road, those 10" scooter tires are hard to find, only the larger japanese scooter and motorcycle dealers seem to keep them in stock. You wont find those wheels or tires at ANY WalMart or Tractor Supply store. And worse than that, these cast wheels cost $350 each and you cant easily change them on the side of the road, since there are no lugnuts. You have to remove the dustcap, the castlenut, and then pull the wheel off the spindle, exposed bearings and all...and thats after removing the fenders and fender brackets...in other words its a pain in the arse, especially on the side of the road. It involves many tools and supplies that most riders simply dont carry on a bike.

 

I dont pull that trailer on long trips anymore...it simply goes thru tires too fast. I suspect that the Bushtech trailers, which use a similar wheel/tire combo, go thru tires pretty fast, but I cant confirm that. There are many small trailers on the market that use tires in this way. The short version is: It was kindve an experiment that failed. I dont have a propensity for underinflated tires, just properly inflated tires for the load they carry.

 

The trailer I pull on trips now has cheap, easily replaced, 8 inch trailer tires, with a tread thats more or less flat on the pavement. I measured the weight with a bathroom digital scale and the weight of my trailer on each side when loaded for this upcoming trip is about 65 pounds total. ( this trailer weighs about 75 pounds empty) The 8 inch tires are rated load range C, about 745 pounds..EACH, at 90PSI. If the load on each tire is only about 65 pounds, around 10 percent of the MAX...then its only logical to derate the PSI...to maybe 10-20 percent of MAX PSI.

 

In my case, I'm running 12 PSI on each tire, and they seem to happily hug the pavement that way. They are not UNDER-inflated, they are properly inflated, for this load.

 

Now you kids want to argue about how to fix this mans trailer problems fine!, but can the chatter about tire pressure

 

 

So we have to argue under your rules? I didnt sign up for that. Dave wanted input and he got plenty of it, from most of us in the thread. This IS a public forum, sir. I have never and will never tell another member to 'can' anything. If you dont like my posts, dont read them.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2010 by tx2sturgis

[Yammy]

This is a very interesting thread.

 

Its hard to tell from the photo's the one side of the leaf looks like a metal clamp that allows the leaf to move. The other side i can't make out. Mine was a bolt.

 

You had mentioned the trailer bounces. I was wondering if when the trailer comes back down and the weight of the loaded trailer causes a small amount of flex in the axle see my crude diagram. The flex may cause the tire to scuff as the axle flexes up and down?

 

The trailer is rated for 2 or 3 times what your hauling if the extra leaf was taken out, the springs would take more of the load and you'd get less flex.

 

Just a thought.

[flb_78]

The trailer is rated for 2 or 3 times what your hauling if the extra leaf was taken out, the springs would take more of the load and you'd get less flex.

 

Just a thought.

 

This is the prefab'd Tag-A-Long trailer from Harbor Freight. 600lb capacity.

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/600-lb-capacity-78-inch-tag-along-trailer-66771.html

[V7Goose]

When you say "NO tires of any size or type"...just how sure are you? I can mail you a pair of tires I wore out in less than 1000 miles of trailer pulling..I have witnesses if need be....admittedly they were not these 8 inch tires, they were 10 inch scooter-type tires on my Motorvation trailer. But over-inflation killed them in just a couple of days of riding, about 800 miles.

Well sir, I thought I was done with this discussion, but after thinking about it a bit more and reading your repeated statements about your trailer tires in a later post, I just had to make one more reply to you because it is specifically appropriate for the original subject of this thread.

 

I doubt that you will agree with me, but you absolutely have big problems with your trailer, too. Any street legal tire that is worn out in any way with only 800 miles has been abused in a defective setup. And the tire inflation had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. The process to identify what is wrong is exactly the same as I outlined for Dave. And I would be very happy to help you find the problem, but it sounds like you will need to buy two sets of tires just to get that thing here if you even care about getting it fixed.

 

And to your question about "...just how sure are you?" I am 100% sure. There is absolutely NO possibility that any street legal tire on a lightweight motorcycle trailer could EVER be worn out in under 2,000 miles UNLESS there is something major wrong with the trailer. The fact that you ruined a set of tires in only 800 miles simply proves what I am saying.

Goose

Edited August 3, 2010 by V7Goose

[Missionary Rider]

Dave, none of this changes my opinion - the only thing that could cause such fast wear on both tires, evenly all the way around, is if they were being drig sideways on the road (or drug straight from frozen wheel bearings. My point is, the ONLY way all that rubber is disappearing is if the tires are being DRUG OVER THE ROAD, not just rolling on it.

 

As for all the repeated suggestions that your problem is over inflated tires - I say BS. Yes, over inflation will push out the center of the tire and cause wear there instead of on the shoulders, but if there is not something else causing the tires to slip on the road, such as engine drive power, brakes, or steering, they will simply roll with no particular drag or friction. If there was not something else major wrong, you could put 100 lbs of air in those tires and they would not show any wear in 5,000 miles (assuming they did not explode!).

 

Bottom line is that you must have something wrong that is causing those tires to drag on the road surface.

Goose

 

Hate to ever admit that Goose is right :big-grin-emoticon but he is.

I had the same issue with my Piggy Backer. Changing the pressure in the tires made NO difference. On an 8000 mile ride, we replaced tires every 3500 miles. When we got home, a friend took his laser surveying equipment and used it to proper align the toe-in (go ahead and laugh - it worked!). Next trip was a 3500 miler with the last set of tires from the previous trip (means they had the last 600 miles on them of the 8000 mile ride) and I had no problem at all.

 

Bottom line: Yes lower your tire pressure but that's NOT your problem. Adjust your toe-in.

 

Good luck

Lynn

[Dave77459]

Hate to ever admit that Goose is right :big-grin-emoticon but he is.

I had the same issue with my Piggy Backer. Changing the pressure in the tires made NO difference. On an 8000 mile ride, we replaced tires every 3500 miles. When we got home, a friend took his laser surveying equipment and used it to proper align the toe-in (go ahead and laugh - it worked!). Next trip was a 3500 miler with the last set of tires from the previous trip (means they had the last 600 miles on them of the 8000 mile ride) and I had no problem at all.

 

Bottom line: Yes lower your tire pressure but that's NOT your problem. Adjust your toe-in.

 

Good luck

Lynn

 

Great feedback. So, A) how do you adjust toe-in in the Piggy Backer (I assume the HF has cloned that too), and B) can you send over your friend with the laser?

 

Dave

[Dave77459]

Squidley found his spare axle, so I dragged the trailer over and we swapped his for mine. Before I got there, he measured his axle and found it 1/16" off across 4'.

 

Swapping axles was no big deal. We also measured how square the tongue was to the frame, and it was darn close. We installed the replacement axle, making sure that it was square to the tongue.

 

Before I left his place, we measured my problem axle. Where the new is off 1/16", the old one was off by a whopping 1-5/8"! It was toed out by nearly 2" in 4'! I don't think there remains any mystery as to why my tires were ground off so quickly.

 

Thanks Squidley for being so awesome, again.

 

Dave

[flb_78]

Nice. Thanks for the update!

[Carbon_One]

Glad you finally found the problem and it should now preform as it should.

Yep the Squid comes thru once again for our members here. Way to go Brad.

Larry

BTW: I don't think I've ever seen an axle that far off before. It's no wonder tires were being shreded so fast.

[dray]

if you swap the axle end for end it wouldnt had been toed out:big-grin-emoticon:

 

are you still getting a replacement axle from HF?

 

you going to fix the old one?

 

 

 

I knew that new Axle would come in handy some day

 

 

 

Dray just fun at ya:080402gudl_prv:

[V7Goose]

Aw Dave, You just had to take all the fun out of this didn't you? Now how are we gonna argue about such an obvious problem? I guess now I'll just have to weigh in on the tire pressure choices!

 

But in all seriousness, I'm glad you have put that problem behind you, but now you do need to decide what tire pressure you want to run. Most of the comments made earlier in this thread about trailer tire pressures were generally accurate (even those by tx2sturgis other than his insistence about that being your problem), but you may not want to just blindly swallow those suggestions.

 

It is true that you do not NEED to run more than about 10 or 15 lbs in the tires on a little light weight trailer tire, and it is also true that running the minimum pressure that will just barely show tire flex when the trailer is loaded will make it run smoother, since the tires will soak up bumps and act like a soft spring. HOWEVER, in most cases I personally choose to run much higher pressure, even near max on the sidewall, because the lower rolling resistance is much more important to me. My choice varies depending on what type of stuff I have loaded in the trailer, how much weight I have on the trailer, and the type of roads I am on, but the vast majority of time I find that hard trailer tires touching only in the center are the best choice. You may want to do some specific comparisons before you make up your own mind.

 

As to the repeated assertions that some have made about that much pressure causing center wear on your tires, there is just a grain of truth to that. Certainly a tire that is only touching in the center can only wear in the center, so when the tires do actually wear out, they will look like your tires did. But the main point here is that those trailer tires, when actually tracking properly, will last a LONG LONG time. Without a lot of weight on them and no drive or breaking force, they will roll over the road so easily that the wear will be minuscule. That is why my personal choice is to minimize the rolling resistance of the tires by keeping them hard instead of worrying about tire wear that is practically non-existent in real life.

Goose

[Dave77459]

Glad you finally found the problem and it should now preform as it should.

Yep the Squid comes thru once again for our members here. Way to go Brad.

Larry

BTW: I don't think I've ever seen an axle that far off before. It's no wonder tires were being shreded so fast.

 

That was really bad manufacturing. Maybe it was made on a Monday.

if you swap the axle end for end it wouldnt had been toed out:big-grin-emoticon:

 

are you still getting a replacement axle from HF?

 

you going to fix the old one?

 

 

 

I knew that new Axle would come in handy some day

 

 

 

Dray just fun at ya:080402gudl_prv:

 

Yep, HF is sending me the new one from China. They quoted 6-8 weeks, and I have a trip in a couple, which is why I am so happy that Squidley had another. When it arrives, I'll tote it over to Squidley's.

 

Aw Dave, You just had to take all the fun out of this didn't you? Now how are we gonna argue about such an obvious problem? I guess now I'll just have to weigh in on the tire pressure choices!

 

But in all seriousness, I'm glad you have put that problem behind you, but now you do need to decide what tire pressure you want to run. Most of the comments made earlier in this thread about trailer tire pressures were generally accurate (even those by tx2sturgis other than his insistence about that being your problem), but you may not want to just blindly swallow those suggestions.

 

It is true that you do not NEED to run more than about 10 or 15 lbs in the tires on a little light weight trailer tire, and it is also true that running the minimum pressure that will just barely show tire flex when the trailer is loaded will make it run smoother, since the tires will soak up bumps and act like a soft spring. HOWEVER, in most cases I personally choose to run much higher pressure, even near max on the sidewall, because the lower rolling resistance is much more important to me. My choice varies depending on what type of stuff I have loaded in the trailer, how much weight I have on the trailer, and the type of roads I am on, but the vast majority of time I find that hard trailer tires touching only in the center are the best choice. You may want to do some specific comparisons before you make up your own mind.

 

As to the repeated assertions that some have made about that much pressure causing center wear on your tires, there is just a grain of truth to that. Certainly a tire that is only touching in the center can only wear in the center, so when the tires do actually wear out, they will look like your tires did. But the main point here is that those trailer tires, when actually tracking properly, will last a LONG LONG time. Without a lot of weight on them and no drive or breaking force, they will roll over the road so easily that the wear will be minuscule. That is why my personal choice is to minimize the rolling resistance of the tires by keeping them hard instead of worrying about tire wear that is practically non-existent in real life.

Goose

I had some nasty vibration on the trailer... I guess from the non-aligned wheels. I'd like to not have the contents shaken or stirred. I'll have to weigh the merits of either approach.

 

Dave

[PBJ]

maybe your problem is similar to mine. I have a 480x8 with integral hub on my sidecar and have been running it at 35psi. My wife says at 20psi she can feel the rim hit the pavement if I hit a bridge deck or skim a pothole. Nevertheless my tire wear is similar at 3K miles, though I still have some rubber in the center. I'm told I should be able to get 8 to 10K miles out of these wheels.

 

I can tell you that at highway speeds (60+) my sidecar tracks straight with no discernible pulling tendency left or right. However (!) at city limit speeds up to 45 or so I do have a tendency to pull right if I let go (the slower the more pull). Granted I only have one wheel, but I suspect toe in is not quite where it should be. Just wish I could see which way the thing is scrubbing (maybe the paint thing would work ...)

 

I'd check wheel alignment versus centerline like Goose suggests, overinflation may make these puppies wear faster in the center but not in 2-3K miles

 

 

Okay this one I can answer all sidecars even single wheel leaners like yours have what is known as crab walk. As the bike accelerates the weight of the sidecar produces enough drag to cause the bike to slide or scrub the tires, this happens during acceleration because the bike is pulling a load off to the side of the rear tire. Once up to speed this action is greatly diiminshed but continues as the bike must accelerate on hills and such. Hard or soft it still affects the tires and causes the ware. The kendra kruz i put on my sidecar has proven exceptionally resistant to this ware because of its big meaty middle.

 

Okay back to the trailer discussion.

[Yammy]

Before this thread is closed I would like to ask a question about toe-in or out as it applies to trailers. I have a limited understanding of the term, but mostly when it applies to the front of cars.

What is confusing me is, if the axle has a toe-in, or out then wouldn't there have to be an indication as to left-right side, or front or back? I assumed any variance was due to the manufacturer, especially on a $129 trailer.

When I bought mine, the axle came in a separate box in the main box It had no indication or which way the axle was to be installed. I could be having a senile moment though, I honestly don't remember any induction of direction of the axle.