Bert2006 Posted June 6, 2016 Share #1 Posted June 6, 2016 Well not even 6 month after doing the Barnett upgrade I am starting to slip again in 4 and 5. I should have replaced the plates at the same time, but figured that with only 50K miles the original plates would be good for a bit more. Plates are getting ordered this week, but can I get away with not replacing the last plate (the one with the metal retaining ring)? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted June 6, 2016 Share #2 Posted June 6, 2016 You can, but it's better to replace it while you're there anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1MECH Posted June 6, 2016 Share #3 Posted June 6, 2016 That is very odd, normally the Barnett pressure plate fixes the issue for good. I have seldom heard of Yamaha friction plates wearing out unless they were slipping badly for a long time or abused. One fellow that was over on Delphi, had a slipping clutch and then entered a slow race competition and smoked his friction plates really bad, that is about the only case I have heard of. I suspect this has been asked before, but are you certain the oil you are using or may have used in the past was suitable for a wet clutch? If the friction plates were exposed to an improper oil type they could have soaked up enough of the friction modifiers so as hey weak they continue to leach out those modifiers and cause slipping. Are you pulling a heavy trailer that is adding extra load on the clutch? Just for grins, you should mic the friction plates and the steels when you remove them, to see if they are out of spec, if they are then yes if the total height of the stack is short enough it will result in a slipping clutch , I would be very interested in hearing if the plates are out of spec or not. Good luck, and as MarCarl noted , best to change out all of them if you are in there doing the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted June 6, 2016 Share #4 Posted June 6, 2016 The thickness of new friction disks is 3mm (0.1181 inch) Worn out is 2.8mm (0.1102 inch). Depending on how long your clutch was slipping when it first started slipping, it is possible to have worn it out already. AS for the half disc, You are there, change it. Whether you put in another half disc or change to a full disc is up to you based on personal preference. The full disk will give you a more solid lock up at the expense of a much narrower friction zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted June 6, 2016 Share #5 Posted June 6, 2016 Steve, I "blue'd" my metal plates from slipping my clutch too much learning to drive my RSV after it was converted to a trike, but I'm sure the extra 400 lbs plus a trailer didn't help matters any! That and the fact it was slipping pretty badly especially at highway speeds sometimes with a trailer towards the end of the season. I replaced everything and went with the Heavy Duty clutch and the PCW spring, no problems since then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider Posted June 6, 2016 Share #6 Posted June 6, 2016 Barnett makes heavy duty springs for their clutch kit. Standard springs are what are supplied normally. Upgraded to the HD versions a couple of years ago after the standards started slipping. No slip since. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert2006 Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share #7 Posted June 6, 2016 That is very odd, normally the Barnett pressure plate fixes the issue for good. I have seldom heard of Yamaha friction plates wearing out unless they were slipping badly for a long time or abused. One fellow that was over on Delphi, had a slipping clutch and then entered a slow race competition and smoked his friction plates really bad, that is about the only case I have heard of. I suspect this has been asked before, but are you certain the oil you are using or may have used in the past was suitable for a wet clutch? If the friction plates were exposed to an improper oil type they could have soaked up enough of the friction modifiers so as hey weak they continue to leach out those modifiers and cause slipping. Are you pulling a heavy trailer that is adding extra load on the clutch? Just for grins, you should mic the friction plates and the steels when you remove them, to see if they are out of spec, if they are then yes if the total height of the stack is short enough it will result in a slipping clutch , I would be very interested in hearing if the plates are out of spec or not. Good luck, and as MarCarl noted , best to change out all of them if you are in there doing the change. I am the 3rd owner of the bike, so don't know about any possible past abuses. Bike does not have a hitch or wiring harness for one, so thinking it has never towed. I put the last 20k miles on her. I have only been using Yamaha oil, however, I am due to change it. Did notice that this slipping started again after I had my fluids in the clutch master changed. Wonder if that could be related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1MECH Posted June 6, 2016 Share #8 Posted June 6, 2016 I am the 3rd owner of the bike, so don't know about any possible past abuses. Bike does not have a hitch or wiring harness for one, so thinking it has never towed. I put the last 20k miles on her. I have only been using Yamaha oil, however, I am due to change it. Did notice that this slipping started again after I had my fluids in the clutch master changed. Wonder if that could be related? So here is my history with Yamaha oil. Back when I had my 98 Royal Star Tour Classic every time I would go to parts counter to get oil and filters, they would sell me Honda oil and Yamaha filter for about the first 4 years I owned it (40,000 miles) , one day I decided as I really like Yamaha I should stay brand faithful so I switched to Yamaha lube. Right after the switch I started getting slippage in the clutch, I drained out the Yamaha lube, pulled the clutch pack and cleaned everything with brake cleaner and reassembled with the Honda oil I had been running all those years. The slipping was reduced but still there if I got on it hard in 5th gear. I bought a new OEM spring and a new pack of friction plates, even though the ones I had just cleaned measured OK, I was thinking was ever was in the Yamaha lube had saturated he material on the friction plates, so best to change them. Did that and continued to use either Honda oil or Valvoline motor cycle oil for the next 56,000 miles I owned that bike, he clutch never slipped again even two up pulling a trailer in the Smokey Mountains. Long story short, never going to use Yamaha Lube in any thing I own ever! That is my story and I am sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted June 6, 2016 Share #9 Posted June 6, 2016 IMHO, change it,,, that 1/2 plate is already the weak link (again, IMHO) - no sense in messing up a clutch swap over one plate.. Personally I have always been suspicous that the 1/2 plate "buffer" idea was a good idea from the dynamics of making the clutch more user friendly (less grabbing, smoother engagement) but possible causation of a lot of our clutch slipping under power - especially in those upper gears where we are asking the most out of the clutch.. Aint no way, aint no how I would rebuild it without replacing that little slacker.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 6, 2016 Share #10 Posted June 6, 2016 Six months after the Barnett is too soon for slipping to occur. As far as the plates go I have never run into one that was under specs. You mentioned you had the clutch fluid bled. My thinking is there's still air in the lines, or the expansion hole is plugged. Air will expand and cause the slave to apply pressure to the rod linkage. A plugged expansion hole will not allow hot fluid to bleed back into the reserve and apply pressure to the linkage via the slave. That and I've always run Valvoline MC wet clutch specific and never had a problem with a clutch slipping.... My 2 ¢ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowser Posted June 7, 2016 Share #11 Posted June 7, 2016 I just did my clutch, did full friction plate and supposedly a thicker diaphragm, I didn't go with spring because I didn't want to much of a harder lever pull. I do like the full disk better than the half and even tho my clutch was slipping I could hardly tell a difference in thickness, wishing I would have had a micrometer to tell for sure but regardless there's zero slippage. Bike only had 38k at time of replacement, I do like to twist that throttle tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert2006 Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share #12 Posted June 7, 2016 Six months after the Barnett is too soon for slipping to occur. As far as the plates go I have never run into one that was under specs. You mentioned you had the clutch fluid bled. My thinking is there's still air in the lines, or the expansion hole is plugged. Air will expand and cause the slave to apply pressure to the rod linkage. A plugged expansion hole will not allow hot fluid to bleed back into the reserve and apply pressure to the linkage via the slave. That and I've always run Valvoline MC wet clutch specific and never had a problem with a clutch slipping.... My 2 ¢ Thanks for that, how do I check for the plugged expansion hole? Is it in the master or the slave? I am obviously not an expert when it comes to this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9cottage Posted June 7, 2016 Share #13 Posted June 7, 2016 you will find it in the master about the size if a pin head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 7, 2016 Share #14 Posted June 7, 2016 It's at the bottom of the reserve. It looks like someone started to drill a hole and then said ooops!! and stopped. At the bottom of the oops is a tiny pin hole. With the reserve cover off, if you slightly squeeze on the lever a tad the surface of the fluid should deform a bit. It it does you're good to go assuming you have all the air out of the line. If it doesn't take one of those twist ties you find in the grocery section of the market and strip the cover off. The wire should pass through the hole and dislodge any junque. That just leaves the air in the line. It's hard to get all the air out of the clutch, and if you had someone else bleed it they might not have got it all out. The only way I can get it all out is to reverse bleed the damn thing. I'll shoot you a PM with a 'how to' write up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert2006 Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share #15 Posted June 7, 2016 It's at the bottom of the reserve. It looks like someone started to drill a hole and then said ooops!! and stopped. At the bottom of the oops is a tiny pin hole. With the reserve cover off, if you slightly squeeze on the lever a tad the surface of the fluid should deform a bit. It it does you're good to go assuming you have all the air out of the line. If it doesn't take one of those twist ties you find in the grocery section of the market and strip the cover off. The wire should pass through the hole and dislodge any junque. That just leaves the air in the line. It's hard to get all the air out of the clutch, and if you had someone else bleed it they might not have got it all out. The only way I can get it all out is to reverse bleed the damn thing. I'll shoot you a PM with a 'how to' write up. Ok thanks, got your PM and will give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider Posted June 7, 2016 Share #16 Posted June 7, 2016 Another thing to use with these small orifices is a small guitar string. They also work on the small carburetor holes. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert2006 Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share #17 Posted June 10, 2016 Openned up the master and it was filled right up to the top. Removed fluid so that it is now slightly above the middle of the sight glass when bars are level. Noticed immediately that the clutch handle is a bit easier. Will try it as soon as the monsoons we have been having this week drift away. Thanks all for your help and a shout out to Condor for your help via PM. Hopefully this does the trick and I can avoid digging into the clutch pac so soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky13 Posted June 15, 2016 Share #18 Posted June 15, 2016 New to Forum. Has anyone tried to put a clutch pressure plate from an 84'-85' in a newer XVZ to upgrade to coil rather than diaphragm spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted June 15, 2016 Share #19 Posted June 15, 2016 Not sure about that but Barnett does make the coil type for the RSV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motiv Posted June 16, 2016 Share #20 Posted June 16, 2016 Since we are on the subject, my 99 rsv grabs hard when shifting but will slip in 4th and 5th if I am in either gear and nail the throttle. Is this normal to these bikes? I am not a hot rod and the bike performs well so it is not an issue, just want to know if it's normal? Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted June 16, 2016 Share #21 Posted June 16, 2016 No, it is not normal and indicates a weak clutch spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted June 16, 2016 Share #22 Posted June 16, 2016 yup weak clutch spring and an easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motiv Posted June 16, 2016 Share #23 Posted June 16, 2016 So, will it Stat slipping more gradually or are these known to fail all at once? Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 16, 2016 Share #24 Posted June 16, 2016 New to Forum. Has anyone tried to put a clutch pressure plate from an 84'-85' in a newer XVZ to upgrade to coil rather than diaphragm spring? I'm not totally sure, but I think you'd have to swap out the whole basket. I picked up a complete MKI clutch off eBay and planned on giving it a try. Never got around to it, and the things up in the rafters somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted June 16, 2016 Share #25 Posted June 16, 2016 So, will it Stat slipping more gradually or are these known to fail all at once? Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk It will likely be a gradual thing. Don't think it will leave you stranded anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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