LIttle girl hands big bad clutch

[Luvdaleather]

I figure that you guys can help me out. Due to many years of hammering leather my left thumb joint (along with myself) not in as good a shape as we used to be. In short the clutch on my RSTD makes that thumb joint real sore when I shift a bunch.

 

I checked out a site for an auto clutch which sounds good yet I'm looking for more feed back. How do this work in real slow parking lot maneuvers? The web site says I can still use the clutch or not but I always have to shift. http://www.efmautoclutch.com/street.shtml

 

We lost our Yamaha dealer so what does it take to install one and what am I looking for in a qualified mechanic? Oh and no I won't attempt to sweet talk Ken into doing it for me!

 

Ok, so SOMEONE out there has to have some first hand experience.

[Semi-retired]

Looks like no one else is awake yet, Nanci...so I'll add MY two cents worth here first.

 

I'm sorry to say I don't have any experience with the "auto clutch" thingy you mention, but to at least temporarily and partially take some of the load off your clutch hand, practice NOT USING the clutch at all when shifting from 3rd to 4th and from 4th to 5th. I know it's not a HUGE relief, but it sounds like your thumb/hand would be thankful for ANY relief at all.

 

This is a maneuver I've performed for years, mainly since I'm an old motocross racer, a type of racing where the clutch is never used AT ALL...for upshifting OR downshifting between ANY two gears. Once the racers are away from the starting line (where, yes, they DO sit with the clutch pulled in, in first gear, waiting for the gate or the flag to drop)......but after that, there's no clutch involved in the entire race....you just back off the gas a bit and kick that gear lever up or down to where it has to be next.

 

With our big cruisers, downshifting is a little tough/clunky to perform with no clutch....and even on UPshifting, the lower gears can be a bit clunky. BUT there's no reason at all to use the clutch when going from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th, as I said. Just put the tiniest amount of toe pressure (or heel...I'm not sure if the RSTD has a heel/toe shifter or just a single lever) when you're about to shift up, then as you back off the throttle, the bike will decide for itself the exact right time to change gears. It'll do it "almost automatically" when the revs of the engine are at the perfect speed to match the revs of the gearbox. It's a kind of "natural" synchronization......which is sort of the task your clutch performs but over a wider range of revs.

 

Until you get your "auto clutch" gizmo, try this method and see if you can't at least REDUCE the amount of hand squeezing required in the higher gears. I PROMISE you, it does absolutely no harm to your gearbox.

 

Good luck with the technique, your hand, and your search for the ultimate solution.

 

Best,

Michael

[BratmanXj]

I have not installed any of those automatic clutches but from what I'm reading on the website it is a direct swap for the factory diagram spring. I have done the "Double-D" spring on my venture as well as Barnett pressure plate on many Road Stars & Warriors (same clutch system as our ventures). The pressure plate swap is pretty easy with simple hand tools and a little patience. Read through the attached thread showing the Barnett installation but at step 7 you'd substitute the Barnett pressure plate for the AutoClutch of your choice.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?491-Barnett-Clutch-Installation

[ragtop69gs]

Cougar (Jeff Barnhart) put the EFM auto clutch in his RSV trike and he loves it. A search in the trike section will bring up his posts about the installation and use.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Flyinfool]

As Michal pointed out, you can sift these bikes without using the clutch. It does not take long to get the hang of just how much throttle to hold during the shift, up or down. If you are after heavy acceleration then you still want to use the clutch as the gears do not like being slammed in under full power. Once you learn to match RPMs to speed and gear, shifts will become just as smooth and noise free as when using the clutch.

 

Like Michal mentioned, start out learning in the higher gears and then work your way down until you can do the 1-2 shift with no problems this will save a lot of wear and tear on your thumb. I used it a lot when I had a torn ligament in my left arm and barely had the grip strength to lift a 12oz can of soda.

 

Another thing that can help is once you get a car or 2 behind you for protection at a red light, shift into neutral so you can let go of the clutch.

 

OH! and stop hitting your thumb with the hammer while hammering leather.........

[cowpuc]

Hi Nance

You bring up a very interesting possible project. Although auto clutches have been around for a long time (worked on many of them back in the early days - Honda used a form of an auto clutch in the "CT" line and their Honda Mini Trails, Husky produced an early model auto clutch in the dirtbike line and then Honda also had an "automatic" 400 and 750 - this was a true automatic tranny though) that industry changed hugely back in the late 90's when a clutch pressure plate was designed using ball bearings in the pressure plate to engage and disengage the clutch. I happened upon the prototype of this design at a Dealer show back then and loved the idea right from the start.

It caught on big time in the dirtbike industry and was not long and there were multiple suppliers of it. As I remember, the beginning was a complete clutch basket package and really expensive - I am thinking it was "Revloc" who started it all - with the need of swapping out the whole basket. Then a company called Rekluse came around with a design that required only the pressure plate to be swapped - much less expensive (under a grand). A number of my dirt riding friends went auto because it made them faster in the woods = completely takes the clutch out of the equation. Personally, I never made the change over - like mentioned already, I too learned long ago how to shift without a clutch and did it a LOT on my race bikes (dirt bikes) and never found the need or want to go auto BUT - I assure you if it came down to a need because I could not use my left hand like I use to, I would certainly not hesitate to go the direction your talking - clutchless shifting is fine once your moving but getting things rolling or sitting at a stop light,, gotta use that lever sometime IMHO.

Unless something has really changed in design (and I highly doubt it has) the auto clutch is actually pretty simple. The design works on centrifical force controlled by engine rpm to move ball bearings to open and close the clutch. The clutch does end up being still functional at the hand lever BUT the auto design is also there doing its thing so the clutch pull is wayyyyyy easier and, under normal circumstance - the lever pull is not needed at all. One of the issues that I ran across with this system had to do with engine braking (using the resistance of the motor slowing you down when you chop the throttle) - in a nutshell, adding the auto clutch required more brake input which required a little bit of a learning curve. Of course its very possible that this has been overcome by small design changes but it is something you might wanna ask about when you choose the provider for the clutch (better to not have surprises). Other than that, when you come to a stop, the clutch is being automatically pulled in by the bearings and all functions beyond that are the same - just like you were pulling the lever.

As far as installation goes, it should be just a matter of pulling the clutch cover, removing the pressure plate and installing the plate with the bearing assists in it. That comment is all based on my experience with dirt bikes but other than being smaller clutched - dirtbikes have the same system as our Yam's do so I am thinking the install should be the same. Because of this system being more common in the dirtbike world, you may find a lot more info about how the system works, maybe get a demonstration and maybe even find someone to do the install for you. Might not be a bad idea to make a few phone calls in your area to shops that cater to that world. I know our local KTM dealer is a smaller shop, been in business for years and has set up many auto clutches in recent years. Around here ya gotta stay away from the bigger shops with stuff like this because their business is usually quite limited when "modding" a scoot. The smaller shops are usually more informative IMHO.

All the best in your "Venture" into the clutchless world. Keep us posted on how it goes young lady!!

Puc

 

PS, sorry about the length of all this but you know how I am

[SilvrT]

I second the suggestion of shifting without the clutch. As for those "real slow parking lot maneuvers" ... just don't do them LOL

 

Now, in my case, it's the thumb and index finger on my throttle hand that get's real sore. I wonder if I could get Nina to reach over my shoulder and work the throttle for me.....

[StarFan]

Hi there Nanci girl.

Lets not talk tank bibs o.k. ?

If, and I say if you decide to do this yourself then I just want to point out a couple of things regarding taking the cover off and putting it on again:

1. You need to buy a new gasket - don´t even think about skipping that step you hear !

2. Make no mistake that the old gasket will rip and parts of it or most of it will be melted solid to the cover and the casing. These need to be thoroughly cleaned off.

3. To clean these old gasket debris off it has served me best to warm them up with a heat gun and then very carefully scrape them off with a razor sharp wood chissel.

4. Make sure that none of the gasket debris goes into the casing when cleaning that part (close it with a rag or something).

5. The chancing of the parts has been for me the least work and it is very simple,, just make SURE to tighten all the bolts you undo according to specs and note that some of these have a surprisingly low torque.

 

When and if you decide to do this I can guide you through the process on SKYPE or by any means you wish. I could also send you pictures of the dismantle process to get you started and then SkYPE when you put everything back together. (Just make sure not to get your hands to dirty before you work on my cover thingies)

And rest assure this is a simple thing to do and anybody can do this.

 

All the best from STUPID Norway,

 

Jonas the late Bib designer (I will get to it,,,just relax )

[JohnT]

We have installed 2 of the Rekluse auto clutches at the power sports dealership where work. Very straightforward installation and the adjustment of the clutch is also very simple. Just follow the directions. If you feel capable of installing a new stock clutch you will be fine. Both customers (Tri Glide riders) are very happy with the operation and they are just under a grand to purchase.

[Luvdaleather]

Thank you Michael, I haven't been on the site in a while thus the delayed "thanks!". What you wrote was interesting. We changed out clutch and brake lines to braided from Hawkeye Performance and it seems much better, however rain and snow is keeping the test ride from happening yet.

[Luvdaleather]

thanks John, I'm going to try the braided lines that we just installed as the stock one were past due. It does seem easier already. I'll go to the auto clutch if my thumb joint continues to cause me grief.

[videoarizona]

Nanci, I'm beginning to have similar issues with my thumb joint...so am following this thread with eager eyes.

And like Jonas, I still haven't got around to picking my bib design...sigh!!

[MikeWa]

Nanci

I think a lot of us are having similar issues. I sure hope some engineer over at Yamaha or Harley or Victory ### is watching this thread. One of the advantages of a hydraulic clutch is it can be made to feel extremely soft. I don't know why Yamaha's engineers purposely design these things so they feel like a very hard to pull cable system. Have they never sat in a traffic jam? Without much additional effort on the part of manufacturers we could have a stronger clutch with a softer pull. It's called hydraulics. OK back to you Nanci. I don't know of any easy solution at this time. But I think I will start looking at different master cylinders hoping to find one with a better advantage that is possible to mount on our bikes.

 

Mike

[cowpuc]

@Luvdaleather,,

Hey Nance,, this is probably a dorky thought but have you folks tried lubing the pivot joint on your clutch lever? I am always amazed at how much just a tad of lube can reduce the amount of pressure it takes to move those levers..

[Luvdaleather]

Mike, when our Yamaha dealership closed down a few years ago I was lucky to have made friends with the certified Yamaha mechanic. He still works on a few bikes from his house and I get to call him with questions. Tony said that yes you can change the master cylinder which helps a lot.

I was told that hydraulic clutches are supposed to be very easy (so "they" say) however even with changing the lines I can still feel the pain in the thumb joint. As an instructor I use the friction zone a lot and you can imagine what my hand feels and looks like after a lesson or a nice long curvy mountain road! (Ice becomes my friend). I've come close to selling my bike, but I cannot find anything I like as much.

Thank you for your kind words and I will keep you posted on what I find out.

[Luvdaleather]

Puc, I can always count you to come up with a simple solution....or at least a hell of a good idea. I will try the lube tomorrow and report back.

No test ride any where in site as we Californian's are hogging much of snow and rain (finally). Spoke to a guy in Dundee NY, he said he lives in a heavy snow area...they have no snow! If ya'll don't mind we'll keep some rain and snow for ourselves for a while to help our lakes and rivers come back to life!

Happy Holidays Buddy!

[Luvdaleather]

Jonas keeps me on my toes as that man is forever coming up with a new bib design or someting. ;o) I'll let you know how it comes along. So far nothing earthshattering; the braided lines helped but not as much as I thought. ;o( Next is Puc's suggestion on the lube....what an idea! LOL

[Luvdaleather]

Hey Puc! Ok so I finally got around to lubing the pivot joint on the clutch lever. (What an idea! LOL) We also changed out the brake and clutch lines and both things have helped with the stiffness of the clutch. On another, note I noticed that my left hand is much weaker than the right one so I've been doing some exercises to build it up and stretching the fingers and upper arm muscles. The thumb join is responding to the exercises and stretching. I have not ridden much this winter however on a short there is a marked improvement in the ease of the clutch. I'll report back when the weather gives us a break and I can go for a nice long ride.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Luvdaleather

[cowpuc]

:sign Rock On: Sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

 

Here's hoping it works PERFECT for you Nance!!!

 

THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE!

[Luvdaleather]

Michael, I'm replying to an old post that you made regarding shifting without hardly using the clutch or actually not using it at all. I went on a trip with a friend to the Oregon coast and figured that as long as I was on the road for few miles, I would try it out. Man it works! Your suggestion saved my hand from overuse as we went through a few hundred curves.

 

I never knew this technique although my husband Ken said he had showed it to me....obviously I had checked out and wasn't listening. (La La La La) :confused24:Another thing I did was not to be so concerned about downshifting all the time in the curves and just let the bike do the work. (what an idea! ) Well needless to say I'm "a little slow out of the starting gate" and with that its sure good to have the members of this site :2133:around to point me in the right direction.

 

We'll be pulling the clutch out here this weekend and sending it off to EFM that is if we don't take the boat out and go fishing! I'll be reporting back.