Rear Tire Overload?

[FROG MAN]

Your thoughts please? This is a serious matter. Rear tire load capacity varies by make of tire but lets say the average is 850lb. If a Yamaha venture weights 800 lb how much weight is riding on the rear tire?

 

Now at 70 mph the front end gets lighter so does more of the weight transfer to the rear?

 

Add a 250 lb rider and 150 lb passenger now what do we have on the rear?

 

Fill the saddle bags and maybe 25lb tongue weight for the trailer. Is it possible we are overloading the rear tire load rating?Yea I know put the rear on a set of scales when loaded but how much extra weight at 70mph? Not complaining just thinking snow on the ground and nothing else to do.

[93 venture]

YOUR GONNA BE OVER LOADED ON THE REAR TIRE BY ALOT. I RUN BOTH THE FRONT AND REAR TIRE BETWEEN 36 TO 40 PSI. IF I RUN ANY LOWER THAN THAT, TIRES SOUND LIKE A DUMP TRUCK IS COMING DOWN THE ROAD,AND REAR TIRE GETS KINDA HOT.

MY PROBLEM IS TOO MUCH CARGO AROUND THE BELT AND THEN THE WIFE GETS ON. I THINKS IS CALLED BIKE ABUSE!:rotf:

[FROG MAN]

My concern is are we increasing our risk of a blow out. Overloaded tire,hot pavement,and more and more debris on the highway. Not to mention our eating disorder adding to the weight.

[Leadwolf56]

YOUR GONNA BE OVER LOADED ON THE REAR TIRE BY ALOT. I RUN BOTH THE FRONT AND REAR TIRE BETWEEN 36 TO 40 PSI. IF I RUN ANY LOWER THAN THAT, TIRES SOUND LIKE A DUMP TRUCK IS COMING DOWN THE ROAD,AND REAR TIRE GETS KINDA HOT.

MY PROBLEM IS TOO MUCH CARGO AROUND THE BELT AND THEN THE WIFE GETS ON. I THINKS IS CALLED BIKE ABUSE!:rotf:

 

:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

 

No comment..............

[Guest KitCarson]

When I first got Crickett, I did read the owners manual....I seem to remember it says that the maximum payload....passengers and gear is 400 pounds. Not a whole lot is it? I see bikes with 1400 pounds on them.

[BOO]

I have read in the manual or maybe on the trunk plate about loading and I think you are correct. We are overloading the rear tire by quite a bit.

The tires seem to take the abuse for the most part but if you happen to let the pressure get down a little bit then you are in big trouble. I don't think it's a problem of any certain brand because I've heard stories about several different one's.

I know some people are riding the bikes with air pressure down a few pounds and thinks it makes the bike ride better, maybeeeee but I keep mine right up to the limit or try to. I don't check the pressure as often as I should but when you are traveling at Interstate speeds you better keep the presure up. I know the pressure will build up a bit but I still keep the pressure up to limit cold.

Jerry

[flb_78]

After reading about Squidley's accident, I was wondering the same thing. I think these little 15 inch tires with the tall sidewalls aren't working too good. My Roadstar had 16 inch wheels, and I was always riding 2 up pulling a trailer at high speeds and had NO problems with tires. My Roadstar was very comparable in weight to the RSV. Add in the fact that the tires are under the saddlebags and have hot exhaust right next them, could be very restricted air flow for a tire.

[Squidley]

This is a good topic to mention, as I too have wondered the same thing on our accident. I am leaning towards not having a basket on the back of the bike. I did try to distribute the weight more towards the front, but you can only move it fwd so far.

After what has happened, as much as I really wanted to get away from a trailer behind the bike. It seems as if it would be the safest thing to do on long trips. I also agree with keeping the tires at max inflation for the reason that Boo mentioned. The less air in the tire the lower weight it can safely handle. Keep an eye on them close and let us be vigilant about checking them so nothing like what happened to us happens again.

[Tartan Terror]

Very Valid question. I deal with this very thing every day in the passenger and light truck market. Many people want to put larger tires on the LTs with no regard to the loads they carry and trailers they pull. Never really occured to me on a bike for some reason. Im gonna do some research. If I remember right the Squid uses the Avon tire like me even though the brand really doesnt matter. It will give me the tech data to see where to start. On thing I will say is that the Max load number that the manufacturers place on the tire isnt the final number. As with all things the make that number significantly lower than the actual failure point so that they have a safety zone in there. I think its about 20%. Under heavy load max air pressure is the best way to go as that will give you the most strength. Let me crunch some numbers and get a hold of my contact at Avon and see what he thinks. One thing I caution though is jumping to conclusions. Now a days tires rarely just blow. Not to say they never do but in my experience if you get a small leak you will as the tire goes down start building air pressure back up along with heat and that will weaken the side wall and cause a blow out of the entire sidewall of the tire. Is ist possible to post some pics of the tire?

[FROG MAN]

Brad way to much of this stuff happening. My only blowout ever was last summer. My first ride on the 99 RSV. The tires were new and the owner said every thing was ready to go. I gave them a visual but did not check the pressure. They looked fine but I blew the rear about 200 miles into a 700 mile trip back from maine. I was riding single following ramona in the pickup. 70 mph the only thing that saved me was the voyager kit. This added unbelievable stability during the blowout.Gets a man to thinking.

[Skid]

After what has happened,.......

 

Brad, I too was wondering about your accident today as I was driving down the road. Was you using Ride-On by any chance? Or do you think maybe just low air pressure, worn tire or other factors caused the blow, and what kind of tire was you running?

[Marcarl]

If I think that my load is getting close to the limit, I will ride or drive, depending on the vehicle, for about 20 min to half hour and then stop to check the tire temp. If it is hot, it's time to do something, should they be warm, I'm happy and will check again further down the road. But always keep the pressure where it should be. When I ride solo, my pressure will be less than when I ride fully loaded,(never mind the comments). I really don't want a hard tire with little contact patch and slim grip when I will need all the help I can get in a problem situation.

[FROG MAN]

I found these specs for a D404 rear for a first gen.

 

140/90-16 71H BW 32NK-46 3.50 25.78 5.89 9/32 761 @ 41

Only 761 lbs at 41 psi. Hmmmmmmmm?

[Redneck]

There is no doubt that the tires on a loaded rsv are are over rated max. I have no doubt that the tires have at least twice the capacity they are rated for. I have run tires way overloaded on trucks many times and have never blown a tire that was inflated to max. I put my hand on the tires at almost every stop if you can't hold your hand on the tire its too hot. Make it a habit to feel how hot your tires are every time you stop that will tell you if your pressure is low , your load is to heavy or speeds are too high.

[FROG MAN]

Redneck I hope your right. One thing for sure. I'm going to run max pressure in mine and check them often. I think i took 3 different tire pressure guages with me to florida last year just so I wouldn't forget. That blow out in maine cost me $550 for a uhaul and another $100 for a tire.

[flb_78]

There is no doubt that the tires on a loaded rsv are are over rated max. I have no doubt that the tires have at least twice the capacity they are rated for. I have run tires way overloaded on trucks many times and have never blown a tire that was inflated to max. I put my hand on the tires at almost every stop if you can't hold your hand on the tire its too hot. Make it a habit to feel how hot your tires are every time you stop that will tell you if your pressure is low , your load is to heavy or speeds are too high.

 

Im sure you're not running BIAS ply tires on your pick-up though. There's a reason why everything is steel belted now. I really wish that they would come out with some 16 or 18 wheels that will run a low profile steel belted radial.

[BOO]

Very Valid question. I deal with this very thing every day in the passenger and light truck market. Many people want to put larger tires on the LTs with no regard to the loads they carry and trailers they pull. Never really occured to me on a bike for some reason. Im gonna do some research. If I remember right the Squid uses the Avon tire like me even though the brand really doesnt matter. It will give me the tech data to see where to start. On thing I will say is that the Max load number that the manufacturers place on the tire isnt the final number. As with all things the make that number significantly lower than the actual failure point so that they have a safety zone in there. I think its about 20%. Under heavy load max air pressure is the best way to go as that will give you the most strength. Let me crunch some numbers and get a hold of my contact at Avon and see what he thinks. One thing I caution though is jumping to conclusions. Now a days tires rarely just blow. Not to say they never do but in my experience if you get a small leak you will as the tire goes down start building air pressure back up along with heat and that will weaken the side wall and cause a blow out of the entire sidewall of the tire. Is ist possible to post some pics of the tire?

 

I also agree with the thought that the tires rarely blow, I think they are low on air pressure for whatever reason and then they build up heat and bruise the sidewalk, then all the air comes out. Once the pressure is pretty low say 1/2 what it's suppose to be, the rear end gets real squirrelly and then you're in a big world of hurt. You can try keeping the throttle up and staying off the brake but eventually the rear tire will come apart and down you go.

I've said this before but I think I would rather have a front tire go down then a rear one. Seems to be more control.

I've had both and neither is anything to brag about and can ruin your day.

Jerry

[BEER30]

On long trips , I tend to lesson the contents of the saddlebags and trunk and transfer most of all the heavy stuff to the BEERCART . We keep the saddle bags open to her purse and our Frogg-Toggs , first aid kit and cameras , flashlight/strobe and lightweight clothing for the ride . Things that we may need more frequently . Now that I have an air pump for the shocks , I always check them as well and place 45 lbs. in it . I run 46 lbs (cold) in my rear Meztler and inspect it up on the lift at least once a week now . Between BEER24/7 and I , we weigh around 350 lbs.. Tongue weight of the BEERCART is around estimated 20-25 lbs. . I'd rather drag something more heavy than carry something heavier . Such as a trailer versus the hitch carriers . As long as everyone is vigualent on how much that hitch carrier weighs and not overload it , one could still be in the safe range .

I'm not so much concerned about exhaust heat unless we are in slow traffic . Tires tend to keep normal temp range as they spin .

As I learn that Brad and Lonna just came off the bridge , I think Brad's tire may have picked up some debris or may have been damaged by something . Bridges tend to collect more trash , where open road the trash is forced off by vehicle wind wash . Bridges are known to collect more trash because of the guard rails . Even the bridge is made up of sections . Each edge of these sections I have seen to have rough edges to to concrete breakage or have seen metal re-bar or metal mesh stick up out of the road . There will be multiple theories on what may have happened .

A while back when I helped out the HD rider , he had a piece of glass that caused his flat .

It's sad that it always takes an incident to get people to open their eyes a little bigger . We should always be more alert to what conditions our equipment is . But even with all the inspections , planning , or maintenance we preform , something is bound to happen somewhere , at anytime .

 

BEER30

[Squidley]

A little more info here for you all. The Tire was a Michelin Commander, and I still had a portion of the center ridge rain groove visible. I was going to change it out after this trip as I dont like to push the tires for this reason. I always keep my tire at max inflation, when I checked the tires before we left they were at 41 lbs, which is max pressure.

The tire never gave me any indication of it being low. It wasn't loose in the rear and the bike felt very solid the entire trip. I honestly dont know what happened, I want to get it in the air and take a look at it closer and make sure there wasn't anything in it. Give me till the end of the week and we'll see if we can get a good solid answer for Y'all...Gotta go back to watching some movies with Mean Dog

BTW...did I mention were happy to be alive

[Thom]

squid , so are we , so are we . say hi to mean dog for me

thom

 

 

A little more info here for you all. The Tire was a Michelin Commander, and I still had a portion of the center ridge rain groove visible. I was going to change it out after this trip as I dont like to push the tires for this reason. I always keep my tire at max inflation, when I checked the tires before we left they were at 41 lbs, which is max pressure.

 

The tire never gave me any indication of it being low. It wasn't loose in the rear and the bike felt very solid the entire trip. I honestly dont know what happened, I want to get it in the air and take a look at it closer and make sure there wasn't anything in it. Give me till the end of the week and we'll see if we can get a good solid answer for Y'all...Gotta go back to watching some movies with Mean Dog

 

BTW...did I mention were happy to be alive

[Redneck]

Im sure you're not running BIAS ply tires on your pick-up though. There's a reason why everything is steel belted now. I really wish that they would come out with some 16 or 18 wheels that will run a low profile steel belted radial.

The tires I was referring to are big truck tires with 100 to 150k loads. I don't run bias tires on anything any more except thebike but I remember when thats all there was. I'm not sure about the low profile tires I know in extreme heavy loads they don't work as well as high profile on trucks.

[hipshot]

while we are all discussing rear tires, i have a question.

has anyone experienced a blow out, on a trike kit?

if so, what were the "handling" aspects?

how about a "voyager kit?

it would seem to me , that a blown tire on a trike, would send you into an immediate "spin", whereas a blown tire on a voyager kit, would allow you to lean one way or the other, and help maintain control!

any ideas on either?

just jt

[Stoutman]

Here is my thought on the matter. I try to keep an air gauge in every vehicle I own. Once the two kids started driving, then mamma and I both bought recreational vehicles, I ended up with 8 different air gauges laying around. Since I used to evaluate measuring devices when I worked in avaition, I took them all and measured them against a calibrated source then I measured their repeatability and reproducability. Long story not quite so long, the variation was huge. On accuracy against a calibrated source they varied as much as 10 pounds. On repeatability and reproducability the worst of the bunch were good to a tolerance greater than plus or minus 5 pounds. The best was only good to plus or minus 2 pounds.

 

So here's my theory: take a tire gauge that is reading low by 6 pounds, add in variation that could measure low another 5 pounds, and you just overpreasured your tire by as much as 20% cold. Then put the load to it on the road and heat it up a bunch and you could have a tire that is over preasured by 25%. That could add a lot to the stress and possible failure of a tire.

 

Moral of the story, I threw away 5 of the 8 air guages I had and bought 5 new ones. Of these, I check them every year. The real kicker was that the best guage I found was not the most expensive. It was the little Campbell Hausfeld electronic gauge that cost about $10.00. http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/catalog/images/AU1100_500.jpgThe worst one was a cheap analog gauge with the needle style readout.

 

Buy a good gauge and check it every year. And if it is an electronic one replace the batteries every year. Then when you check your tire pressure always check it two or three times and take the average.

[cmiles3]

Never lost a tire on the Ventures, but I had a rapid deflation on a scooter last summer. Valve was damaged, leaked and the rear tire went flat in a couple of miles. I had checked pressure before leaving home & it was normal. That was a wild ride. It was wobbling if I tried to brake, but would smooth out with a little throttle. Took a few seconds to bring it to a safe stop.

 

Just from the description, sounds like Brad's tire was damaged by road debris, or else age/wear caused a failure.

 

I think everyone talking about their personal experience with tire problems makes all of us aware that it could happen to us at any time.

 

Personally, my max load rating is met when Amy & I ride 2 up without luggage. Better to empty the saddle bags and trunk and put it in the trailer if you're loading heavy. I think I read where the front tire is loaded 60%, rear at 40% while stopped. I don't the the weight transfer to the rear tire would exceed 50%, unless you're riding in reverse and braking hard. The front tire can get close to 100% load if braking extremely hard, but that will only be for a short time.

 

I believe most tire failures are the result of damage from under/over inflation. The failure doesn't necessarily occur when the tire is under/over inflated. The damage is initiated, then heat/wear cause the damage to progress until failure occurs. Same thing with road debris damage. Tire might not fail for many more miles or months.

 

Tires are constructed stronger than their ratings, but don't rely on that. The factor of safety is designed to account for short duration, unexpected things, like riding over a 2x4, 120 degree days, hard braking, and so on. If you're consistently overloading your tire, you're betting your life that all those chinese factory workers had a good day when they put your tire together.

[FROG MAN]

Hipshot my blow out was with the 99 and the voyager kit. The voyager handled like a dream. Very stable I have resolved to use the 99 as a permanent vacation ride. Those outriggers are great especially when towing. Shame the 99 is slow.:rotf:

 

Also here is some good advice from dunlop.

http://www.kashinsky.net/gwrra_nj_de/Forms_and_Documents/Safety_Topics/RE_Newsletters/TIREINFLATIONMAINTENANCEMay2002_files/image002.jpgIMPORTANCE OF MOTORCYCLE TIRE INFLATION MAINTENANCE & LOAD RESTRICTIONS

Dunlop Tires

 

As the world leader in motorcycle tires, Dunlop continues to be concerned about the lack of attention paid by cyclists to proper use and maintenance of their tires, particularly when fitted to motorcycles intended for touring.

 

Dunlop technical personnel have attended touring rallies all over North America to collect vital data and give instructional seminars.

 

What we have observed at these rallies alarms us: many touring riders are not following proper tire maintenance procedures.

 

The requirements for proper tire usage are not complicated, but they do require consistent attention.

 

Owners and operators of motorcycles should closely monitor vehicle loadings to insure they are within the maximum loads and corresponding inflation pressures for their tires. This basic load and pressure information is clearly stamped on the tire sidewalls.

 

The tire does not support the load-the air pressure does. The manufacturer’s ratings for the maximum load and inflation pressure are critical tire design elements. If not observed, the handling and performance of your motorcycle will be greatly affected.

 

We have checked inflation pressures at several touring rallies and found a high percentage of rear tires to be under inflated. In addition, weight checks of the rear axles of these motorcycles indicated a number of tires were loaded beyond maximum capacity.

 

Our inspections have not been limited to those cycles fitted with Dunlop tires; the situation exists for all brands of tires.

 

Regardless of the make of tire, this is a serious problem. Riders of motorcycles with significantly under inflated and overloaded tires will experience handling and steering difficulty. In addition, this abuse will result in disappointing premature tire wear and may cause catastrophic tire failure.

 

The addition of accessories, cargo, and dual riding to touring motorcycles aggravates the problems of overloading and under inflation. The excessive flexing that results from under inflation or overload causes buildup of internal heat, fatigue cracking and eventual carcass breakup resulting in complete failure. A consequence of such failure may be an accident with serious personal injury or death.

 

The appearance of stress cracks in the tread grooves is an indicator of overload and/or under inflation. If you find evidence of tread groove cracking, you should remove and replace the tire immediately. This damage is permanent and non-repairable.

 

Our inspection of tires of various styles & manufacture at rallies and our subsequent testing have confirmed that under inflation (and/or excessive load) causes tread groove cracking and can result in more serious damage within the tire body. Uneven wear may also accompany under inflated use. Failure to heed these visual warnings can result in tire failure or blowout.

 

The use of trailers can also contribute to tire damage and touring motorcycle instability. Although most motorcycle manufacturers recommend against their use, a percentage of the motorcycles we have inspected were so equipped. The trailer tongue weight added to an already heavily laden motorcycle can fail a rear tire. The percentage of overloaded motorcycle rear tires found during our inspection would have been higher if trailer tongue weight had been considered. The forces of rapid acceleration and deceleration may also multiply the effects of trailer tongue weight.

 

To get the maximum safe use out of your tires and maximum touring enjoyment you should:

• Properly maintain all aspects of your vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations. Read and reread your motorcycle owner’s manual.
  
• Never exceed the loading and accessories restrictions found in your motorcycle owner’s manual, or the maximum load displayed on the tire sidewalls. Know your loaded vehicle weight.
  
• Check air pressure at frequent, regular intervals, particularly just before and during long trips. Always use an accurate tire gauge and check pressures only when the tires are cold. (i.e., wait on hour after running). We have found many cheap gauges to be off more than 5 psi, so be sure to use a top quality gauge and preferably one that retains the pressure reading until reset!
  
• Inspect you tires as often as possible. Look for irregular wear, any signs of cracking in the sidewalls & tread, blisters, knots, cuts or punctures. Immediately remove and replace damaged tires. If in doubt, ask your motorcycle tire dealer to check your loading, inflation and tires. Remember, your tires stand between you and a serious accident. For touring motorcycle loading, follow these general guidelines:
  • Light loads-single rider with some luggage (up to 200 lb. total)-minimum tire pressure of 32-psi front and 36 psi rear must be maintained.
    
  • Heavier loads-dual riding and/or luggage (from 200 lb. total up to maximum motorcycle capacity stated in the owner’s manual)-pressure of 36-psi front and 40 psi rear must be maintained.

Please note: For any dual riding or fully loaded use, 40 psi must be maintained in all Dunlop rear tires fitted to touring motorcycles.

 

In addition to following these recommendations, notice what your tires are telling you while you’re riding. If your steering response is slow or mushy, or if cornering and braking response is heavy, there’s a good chance your tires are under inflated. Vibration or wobble may signal that actual tire damage has occurred and failure is imminent!

 

If you conscientiously follow our recommendations, you will enjoy better, longer, and safer tire performance and many, many miles of touring pleasures.