dmoff1698 Posted October 17, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 17, 2009 I've been thinking about putting on a C/T for a while now. From what I've been reading it sounded like a good choice for the way I ride. Well...last weekend while on a trip to Texas, I punched a hole in my rear tire and decided to take the plunge. Getting a C/T mounted on a bike is sure a conversation starter. But I got er done. Two hundred miles later around Texas it was all I hoped it would be. Smooth, stable and quiet. Then I made the mistake of trying to pull my Time Out camp trailer back home. Holy crap!!! I'm all over the road!!!! Any speed over 40 mph and the trailer starts oscillating back and forth dragging me with it!!!:shock3: Thought since the C/T had a softer sidewall than my E3s I've been running, I tried bumping up the pressure from 40 to 45 lbs. No help at all. I've got probably 4000 miles pulling this trailer, and never had this problem before. A friend who was riding with me suggested that the trailer acted like the tounge was too light. I have always run with about 20 lbs on the tounge, and don't see that changing the tire should change the loading but that is the only thing new:confused24:. Any similar experiences out there? If I don't find a quick solution, this tire is outta here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kregerdoodle Posted October 17, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 17, 2009 That sounds scary.... Ponch had the same thing happen on his way to WY. I am not sure what he did to correct it.. he is on his way to Tx panhandle MX Day, and may check the site when they get there, so if you can wait there is a good chance he will answer your ?? today. you may want to send him a PM.. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted October 17, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 17, 2009 I would agree with the tounge weight, unless you weighed the tounge (and you might have) there's no real way of knowing. When I load any of my trailers I make sure that I lock everything in so it can't move around during transit. Perhaps this is what happened and you weren't aware of it Another thing, what was the tires on the trailer inflated to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummingbird Posted October 17, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 17, 2009 sounds like a tongue weight problem, did something shift in the trailer ? empty cooler ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoff1698 Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted October 17, 2009 sounds like a tongue weight problem, did something shift in the trailer ? empty cooler ? I checked when I got home and nothing had shifted in the trailer. tongue weight still around 20 lbs. Another thing that is really strange, the last 50 miles of my trip was riding 2 up. For some reason the trailer pulled straight and true while 2 up. Several people on the trailer forum say the tongue weight should be 10% of the total trailer weight. For me that would be around 40 lbs, which sounds pretty high. But what do I know? I'll try that and see if it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted October 17, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 17, 2009 From my days of pulling trailers with Telephone poles on them if the tongue did not sit firmly on the ground it would whip all over the road. With a large load if I could load it by hand without using the boom on the truck it would still whip. The larger the load the more of a portion of it had to be on the tongue. Put a 75 ft pole back there not loaded right you could clear the Interstate of traffic!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMIKE Posted October 17, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 17, 2009 Not sure but...what if the car tire increased the height of your hitch just a little...and picked up the tongue of your trailer just little. If the tongue was up just a little would that not cause the tongue weight to drop just a little. I really think the handling has something to do with the tongue weight. Any trailer with not enough tongue weight will respond as you described. My son recently bought a Yamaha Rhino. I had the pleasure of driving 2 1/2 hours to pick it up. Got a new trailer to haul it on since I did not have nothing that was not too big (8x22 22 ft to big to haul it to the deer camp) or too small (4x8). Did the paper work and loaded it up and took off down the interstate...Rhino against the front of the trailer... The trailer started walking back and forth after a lane change. Stopped to check on it...the Rhino had slipped back about 1 inch. Two rachet straps later, problem solved by holding it tight against the front of the trailer. 1 inch had made a difference on how it pulled. But the trailer without the load had about a 5 lb tongue weight. Too light in the front end to start with. I would empty the tour pack or saddle bags into the front of the trailer if this happens again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dano Posted October 17, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 17, 2009 yep, not enuff tongue weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyR Posted October 17, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 17, 2009 yep, not enuff tongue weight. And since you said it didn't happen riding 2-up, it confirms that your hitch is slightly higher with the car tire, and by going 2-up your rear shock is compressed. Maybe letting all the air out of the shock would be an alternate solution? Or maybe there's a washer under the ball that could be removed to lower it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted October 17, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 17, 2009 An easy check would be to put a level on the tongue of the trailer, then check the level with you one up and then two up. I think you are going to find that the tongue is going to be "high" until you get two up. All the tongue weight in the world is not going to help until you lower the tongue. Think of a triangle, the height of the end of the trailer tongue is the side adjacent of the triangle, any weight added to the tongue is effectively being shifted to the rear of the trailer because of the angle created by the side opposite and the hypotenuse of the triangle. So to put this in ENGLISH, lower the tongue until you see level to 1/4 bubble low with one up and your scoot and trailer should track the same as it did before! (sorry for the tech-no-babble!) Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade239 Posted October 17, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 17, 2009 Sorry guys for a stupid question what is a C/T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroker ace Posted October 17, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 17, 2009 It is a car tire alot use them on the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted October 17, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 17, 2009 Might want to check to see if the air pressure in both trailor tires are equal. Just my worth. Hope you figure it out. Keep us posted 'cause I'm probably going that way(CT) soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMIKE Posted October 18, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 18, 2009 Sorry guys for a stupid question what is a C/T C/T...Called the DARKSIDE???...Some of these guys on here actually run a CAR TAR on the back of their motorcycles. That sounds kinda crazy don't it. I am still shaking my head about all that in disbelief. but they do it. I have met a few of them and maybe some are just a little bit crazy. But over 3/4 of us are a little more than crazy on here anyway so why not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoff1698 Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted October 18, 2009 This talk about tongue weight and ball height has just struck a bell. I have been playing around with the pressure in my rear shock trying to figure out how it changes handling. Just before I left on this trip I bumped the pressure up another 5 lbs. I did notice that it raised the bike some when I did it. I just went and set the trailer back on the hitch..it looks like the the tongue is a good 2-3 inches above level. Slightly taller tire, a little extra pressure, riding 1 up = a real interesting ride. Not a proven fact yet, but my money is on you guys!! There is so much experience here, no need to go anywhere else. Thanks!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponch Posted October 19, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) My issue was low PSI in the trailer tires. I bumped the PSI to 30 in the trailer tires and the handling was good! Edited October 19, 2009 by Ponch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunboat Posted October 19, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 19, 2009 i would agree it's your trailer tounge weight. last year i took my trailer to the '08 international rally in kitchener. over 4,000 miles, had it loaded to the gunwalls with more stuff loaded on top. over 1/2 of this trip was two up. my tounge weight was around 30 plus pounds. pulled like a dream and this was at 70 to 75 mph. i can't remember but i think i put the max air pressure in the trailer tires, maybe 5psi less. i had a bfg 155 c/t on the rear. don c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoff1698 Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted October 19, 2009 For the last few days I haven't been able to do much with this due to a pinched nerve in my back. Now I'm doing much better and feel it will be safe to ride in a couple days. Here is the plan based on your inputs. 1. Check pressure in the trailer tires and make sure they are even. 2. Lower the pressure in the rear shock to get the hitch height down. 3. Repack the trailer to get more weight on the tongue. 4. Go on a good test ride on various roads and speeds. Thanks for all your input and support. I will post results as soon as I get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoff1698 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted November 4, 2009 It's been a few days longer than expected with my back and I haven't done any riding at all until this Monday when I decided to try riding to work. Sunday I serviced the bike with fresh oil, plugs, tire pressure check (42 lbs rear-38 front), checked stearing (good) etc. etc. Monday's ride was smooth and uneventful. Normal ride to work, 55-60 mph, clear and dry. No problems. Tuesday ride was also good until I hit the main hiway (2 lane) and decided to let it breath a little. All good until I hit 75 mph and felt just a slight "wiggle" in the rear. It only lasted a second then settled down. Pushed on to 80 mph and OMG!!! the back end suddenly tried to jump out from under me. Felt exactly like a flat tire that had jumped the rim. Set up a oscillation that I couldn't control no matter what I did. Scared to hit the brakes or the gas or maintain speed. Just scared PEROID. Oscillation did not let up until I got down to around 50 mph, by then I was riding on the white line ON THE LEFT SIDE of the road. Lucky there was no other traffic close by because I was totally out of control. The bottom line is...all this happened riding 1 up, everything checked and to spec. and no trailer. No damage to the rear C/T and swing arm is tight. I've put my bike through it's paces many times in it's 126K life, and this bike has been rock solid since day one. The only difference in Tuesday's ride is the rear tire. I know many of you have a lot of time on the darkside and are pleased with the results. But for me, I will never be comfortable again with any solution other than going back to what I know works for me. E3 ordered yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flb_78 Posted November 5, 2009 Share #20 Posted November 5, 2009 What brand and size of tire are you trying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarges46 Posted November 5, 2009 Share #21 Posted November 5, 2009 BigBobs crash happened last Sept on our way to Pork in the Pines. He had installed a car tire and was telling me just prior to leaving Devils Lake that he was going to "hit it" as he was experiancing a wobble at speeds and trying to get the pressure right. From the witnesses travelling behind him it was like a gust of wind took him and he went into a tank slapper and was done. Scared me enough to not want the car tire either. I had been seriously thinking of it. To those that have it...I am truly glad you are able to enjoy the ride...but it is not going to happen for me. I am glad you recovered from your near miss...that could have left a mark or two besides in the shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradT Posted November 5, 2009 Share #22 Posted November 5, 2009 Can not comment on the car tire but sounded like to little weight on the tongue. I am a strong believer that even at 20 or 30 lb tongue weight it may not be enough, depending on what you have in your trailer or better yet where the weight is loaded. I believe if you have a heavy load behind the tires and compensate it with a heavy weight on the tongue you may still have a tongue weight of 20 or 30 lbs but you may technically have too much weight behind the tires causing that lovely sway. I think it is all about packing. Heavy loads go over the axles, or towards the hitch, then pack around the heavy weighted object. I do not worry about tongue weight I just make sure it is has a good load on the tongue.(it may even be 40 lbs). Works everytime for me and never had to shift the load around and have pulled the trailer many miles without problems. AND following Naugh-T I have to run pretty hard to catch up some time. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAINEAC Posted November 5, 2009 Share #23 Posted November 5, 2009 I'm on my second car tire and i did a 14k mile trip pulling my piggybacker this year... Here's my take on this... The only wagging problem I had was one time when I was not running a car tire but an Avon Venom and I had too much weight in the back not too little tongue weight... I only moved my laptop from behind the wheels to over the trailer wheels... i hardly added any weight to the tongue but took away 30 lbs from behind the trailer wheels... no more sway... The answer is not "Not enough tongue weight" But "Too much weight behind the trailer wheels" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunboat Posted November 5, 2009 Share #24 Posted November 5, 2009 hi dale sorry to hear your having so much trouble with your car tire and pulling the trailer. i will be the first to tell you to take off the c/t, and go back to a m/c tire. i'am on my second c/t ( it's a kuhmo ) this time with a avon crobra front tire. i have not pulled my trailer with this set up yet, but i don't expect any different results than i had with my first c/t. but for some reason it's not working for you. i presume that the bike drives ok with out pulling the trailer. the issuse is with pulling the trailer. i'll be willing to buy the car tire for you when you get it off. as always be safe. don c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyR Posted November 5, 2009 Share #25 Posted November 5, 2009 Dale said: The bottom line is...all this happened riding 1 up, everything checked and to spec. and no trailer. No damage to the rear C/T and swing arm is tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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