Just purchsed an 88VR - need clutch advice

[Evan]

I 'm a new member as well as a first time owner of an 88 VR. Never been bikeless since 1963 and currently ride a 90 PC. Very excited to get this VR on the road as soon as the snow melts here in Ontario but have one immediate issue. There is no clutch pressure so I checked the reservoir and it was empty - strange since the previous owner drove it to where it was parked, although that was a year ago (he bought a new RSV last year). I added some fresh fluid but couldn't get pressure. Should my first step be to bleed the line and then check to see that there are no visible leaks. Any advice on this problem or bleeding the line and anything else that I should do to check it out and make sure all is good. I hope to ride this bike for many years.

 

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[mini-muffin]

First welcome to the site. Gravity bleed at the slave cylinder until you get all the air out then pressure bleed at same point. If you still don't get full pressure use a zip tie on the handle overnight let us know if this works. Before going to all this trouble check the rubber line at the slave cylinder for swelling, a known problem.

 

Margaret

[scotty]

Likely the slave cylinder has gone bad and leaked the fluid out while it was sitting. You are right that the first thing to do is bleed it and see if it works/leaks.

On the upside its cheap to rebuild and not that hard.

Hope this helps, scotty

[Condor]

Every one seems to have their own idea of how to get the clutch bled. The air is a PITA to get out of the clutch lines and slave due to it's design. With the master so much higher than the slave the air bubles willl always want to rise to the master. Because you can't apply compression like you can in a brake system you end up forcing a little fluid in the lines and the bubbles go down toward the slave. By the time you're able to pump again the air has started to rise again. It's a never ending cycle. The air will continue to rise and stay suspended in the lines. You can't really speed up the pumping process. Pump a little in and by the time you reload for another shot of fluid the bubbles are back where they were before. It's tough to get them out of the system. Here's my solution, takes about 15 minutes, and it works every time.

Basically it's forcing the DOT 3 or 4 up the clutch lines from the bleeder valve on the slave, thru the slave, and up into the reserve. Since air will naturally rise in the lines, it's almost impossible to force the air down thru the lines, thru the slave, and out the bleeder valve. There are several different ways to accomplish reverse bleeding, but they all do the same thing. i.e. force the fluid from the bleeder valve on the slave up into the reserve. With a standard OEM valve you can just loosen it, attach a clear plastic tube for a visual, and use what ever method you can conger up as an injection tool... Everyone seems to have their own method for this. I personally use one of those rubber ear bulbs. Since I have a speed bleeder installed I have to remove it. With the top of the master reserve removed start forcing fluid into the lines, being carefull not to force so much in that it overflows the reserve bowl. You can actually hear the air bubble out. It won't take long, but once no more air can be heard, lock down the bleeder valve and you're good to go. Make sure that the reserve isn't over full when you button things up.

[GeorgeS]

If you do end up rebuilding, the " Master " and " Slave" cylinders, I reccomend getting the rebuild kit from Yamaha, for the Master. If, its never been rebuilt, then consider that due to " AGE " it should be rebuilt.

 

As to the Slave Cylinder, it can be rebuilt with a Kit. However I strongly reccomend buying a NEW Slave Cylinder. About $15 for rebuild kit, or about $35 for a New unit. In my opinion its well worth the extra, to get a new one.

 

The old Slave cylinder will most likley be corroded, maby beyond repair.

 

Save yourself the trouble just order new parts. Also, I would consider buying new rubber lines. Remember, that rubber is 21 years old !!

[Evan]

Big thankyou's to all for your advice and particularly to Condor for your additional information. Like you, Condor, I am retired, but with 4 grandkids that are becomng a major source of pleasure for me. Two of my passions in life have been horses and motorcycles and I bought my first mororcycle in '61 to get to horses. While I haven't owned horses for several years, I have never been without a motorcycle since then. Even so, I am surprsed about how excited I am to pick up this 88VR. Since I stumbled across this forum a few days ago, I have spent hours learning about 1st gen VR's and I have been blown away by both the good information and the friendliness of forum members. I hope I can reciprocate over time.

 

PS - For my 60th, I bought myself a different "toy" - which is identical to the one my grandfather taught me to operate when I was 7. It is almost as old as I am and in my mind, a classic, with a dedicated owners forum similar to this one.

 

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[mother]

hello Evan and welcome to the greatest forum.

 

i have an 86 and when i picked it up the clutch slave cylinder was weeping and i rebuilt it by installing the new rubber seals in the winter season. if i knew the slaves were as cheap as they are, i would have picked up a new one. they are a bit of a pain to do just because of the slaves location, but it can be done if you are patient and handy with basic tools and know how to bleed a system.

if you need any help please feel free to contact me as i am in the north east Toronto area.

 

cheers, Scott

[bongobobny]

Nice looking ride, Evan! There is a meet and eat coming up o n the 14th in Ft Erie at Green Acres. There is info in the meet and eat forum. Do try to come and get to know some of the people in the area!!

[Evan]

Thanks Scott - and yes, this does seem to be the best forum - by far. I am amazed at the good information and helpful responses, and I sure appreciatre your offer to help. I look foreward to being able to help others some day.

 

We are probably quite close as I live in downtown Toronto with a cottage on Lake Nipissing. Unfortunatley, my shop and tools are at the cottage. I am looking forward to being able to ride the VR to the cottage (about a 350K run to get there) and I expect the ride to be much more comfortabel than with my Pacific Coast, which I still have for now. I also hope to do more touring.

 

Right now, the VR is in a garage close to Hanover. It seemed to run well when I looked at it. Fortunately, however, I noticed the lack of hydralic clutch pressure as I was planniong to ride it back to Toronto as soon as the roads are clear. When I checked the master cylinder, it was empty. I am hoping that bleeding the line will at least get me back to Toronto. The owner claimed that he rode the VR to where it has been stored for a year (he bought a RSV) and that it ran well with no clutch problem then. From the forum responses, I hope that bleeding the line will get things working well enough to run home. However, my other problem is that I will not be able to work in the garage where the bike is currently stored for more than a few hours, so Condor's suggestion to back pressure bleed the line may work best or alternatively, I understand there is a tool to power bleed a line. While I did my own brakes on my van last year (with help from a frriend), I don't know what I am geting into with the VR. Alternatively, I have an option to trailer the bike to my brother in law's farm near Woodstock and work on it there? From the sounds of it, I should do what you did fairly soon in any event, and I would sure appreicate your help. Also, I look forward to talking with you about other maintenance that you suggest and hopefully, we will ahve a chance to ride together this summer.

 

Thanks Again

 

Evan

[Evan]

Bongobobny - Thanks for your note and the meet and eat info. If I can't make that one (likely not), I will sure try to do so as soon as I can this season - and I will check for future dates. The ride from Toronto to Fort Erie will be great for me as Niagara is my original stomping ground.

 

Evan

[RedRocket]

I'm a new owner of an 88 and my clutch was the same as yours when I bought it- soggy of lever, and empty of reservoir. I first rebuilt the master cyl, and it still didn't work, so I rebuilt the slave. The cheapest I could find a replacement for was $ 65. Mine looked pretty good and the new seals seem to work fine.

 

In regards to squirting fluid upwards, I use a big 6 inch syringe that I picked up at a Medical Supply store.

[Evan]

Been thinking of all the encredibly helpful advice. I plan on trying to reverse bleed the clutch line for starters. Been thinking of ways to do that and today I picked up a pump that is normally used to inject oil into the lower end of outbaord motors or outdrives. It is designed so the pump screws onto the top of the Dot 3 fluid container and sucks from the container. I can then pump fluid straight from the container through a plastic tube connected from teh pump to the bleeder valve. I understand all I need to do is take the top off the clutch reservoir and and make sure the fluid level in the reservoir doesn't get too high by removing any excess fluid until it comes out clear and without air bubbles. I also understnd from Condor's helpful advice that I don't need to depress the clutch lever to do the line bleeding.

 

Hope I got this right as it is a 3 hr drive to get to the VR and I will be working in someone else's garage?

 

Evan

[Evan]

Thanks to Condor and all others who gave me such useful advice. I came up with a way to do a reverse bleed that worked like a charm, so I am passing on this information. I purchased a small pump for filling outboard motors with lower unit gear oil. The pump is designed to screw onto any plastic container containing oils or fluids such as dot 3 brake fluid. You can pump directly from the dot 3 fluid container into an attached hose. I repalced the original hose and fitting for marine use with a 3/16 plastic line. The beauty of this setup is that you can pump until the plactic line is filled with dot 3 fluid (no mess and it won't flow back into the container) and then insert the other end of the line on the bleeder valve and pump some more until it comes out of the reservoir clean and airless. In my case, I used a syringe to remove excess fluid from the reservoir until all the old fluid was displaced. I have attached a picture of the pump as well as the original line and fitting for marine use that came with the pump plus the 3/16 line that I used. It cost less than $15.00 at Canadian Tire.

 

Evan

[Condor]

Thanks to Condor and all others who gave me such useful advice. I came up with a way to do a reverse bleed that worked like a charm, so I am passing on this information. I purchased a small pump for filling outboard motors with lower unit gear oil. The pump is designed to screw onto any plastic container containing oils or fluids such as dot 3 brake fluid. You can pump directly from the dot 3 fluid container into an attached hose. I repalced the original hose and fitting for marine use with a 3/16 plastic line. The beauty of this setup is that you can pump until the plactic line is filled with dot 3 fluid (no mess and it won't flow back into the container) and then insert the other end of the line on the bleeder valve and pump some more until it comes out of the reservoir clean and airless. In my case, I used a syringe to remove excess fluid from the reservoir until all the old fluid was displaced. I have attached a picture of the pump as well as the original line and fitting for marine use that came with the pump plus the 3/16 line that I used. It cost less than $15.00 at Canadian Tire.

 

Evan

 

Being in the boating business I should have thought of that Evan. MOF I probably have a couple of those things floating around here somewhere. Good thinkin'

[SilvrT]

Being in the boating business I should have thought of that Evan. MOF I probably have a couple of those things floating around here somewhere. Good thinkin'

 

 

"boating" ... "floating" .... good choice of words! You planned that...right?

[Squeeze]

"boating" ... "floating" .... good choice of words! You planned that...right?

 

Nope, Jack's a Poet by nature !!! :happy34:

[Evan]

Being in the boating business I should have thought of that Evan. MOF I probably have a couple of those things floating around here somewhere. Good thinkin'

 

Thanks Condor - Now, while my rear brakes stop well, the pads are not releasing enough to prevent minor friction and rotor heat. I can spin the back tire while my 88VR is on its centre stand by only about one revolution before it stops from pad friction. I have about 1/4" play at the brake pedal which I understrand should be enough. This bike sat for a year and I don't know the history of brake fluid repalement, but the cluth fluid that I replaced by reverse bleeding looked dirty. Before I get into work like cleaning the pistions, should I try bleeding the brakes lines to reduce this friction? If so, can I do this by a similar reverse bleed procedure as Condor suggested for my clutch? If so, what order should the lines be reverse bled?

 

I would like to reduce the pad friction enough so I can drive to my cottage (250 miles away) where I have my shop and good tools to do more work.

Evan

[Condor]

 

Thanks Condor - Now, while my rear brakes stop well, the pads are not releasing enough to prevent minor friction and rotor heat. I can spin the back tire while my 88VR is on its centre stand by only about one revolution before it stops from pad friction. I have about 1/4" play at the brake pedal which I understrand should be enough. This bike sat for a year and I don't know the history of brake fluid repalement, but the cluth fluid that I replaced by reverse bleeding looked dirty. Before I get into work like cleaning the pistions, should I try bleeding the brakes lines to reduce this friction? If so, can I do this by a similar reverse bleed procedure as Condor suggested for my clutch? If so, what order should the lines be reverse bled?

 

I would like to reduce the pad friction enough so I can drive to my cottage (250 miles away) where I have my shop and good tools to do more work.

 

Evan

 

Unfortunately the rear brake ,with the proportioning valve, can't be reverse bled. Two things to check. Reserve's too full, or the expansion hole might be plugged. You might also take the pads off and compress the pistons...one or both may be sticking?? If it's not these, it might be time to rebuild the rear caliper...

[Rocket]

 

I have about 1/4" play at the brake pedal which I understrand should be enough. I would like to reduce the pad friction enough so I can drive to my cottage (250 miles away) where I have my shop and good tools to do more work.

 

Evan

 

Also check the linkage adjustment, for the push rod that goes into the rear master. The push rod could be too tight (pressing up on the piston), there should be just a little play, between the rod & the piston. There is an adjusting bolt with a lock nut, facing to the rear at an angle.

[Marcarl]

Hey Evan, welcome. See you have some issues, somehow I missed all this thread. Where have you got your scoot now? in the Woodstock area? not too far from Brantford I'd say, would like to help you out, sounds like fun and a good time to meet an oldtimer and learn something from days gone by. Let me know if I can be of help.

Carl

[Evan]

Hey Evan, welcome. See you have some issues, somehow I missed all this thread. Where have you got your scoot now? in the Woodstock area? not too far from Brantford I'd say, would like to help you out, sounds like fun and a good time to meet an oldtimer and learn something from days gone by. Let me know if I can be of help.

Carl

 

Hi Carl - Thanks for your note. I'm in Toronto, which is a bit further than Woodstock, but still only a hour or so from you. I am now mostly retired and I hope to do more rides with this VR. I got to the International MC Show in Toronto today and picked up info on a number of charity rides. I talked to a guy who was selling his 85VR and he said there was a VR ride here in Ontario last year. I'm reluctant to ride too far before I reduce my break pad friction, so I will see what I can do with my limited faciliteis here. Hope to connect with you soon and I will keep in toutch.

 

Evan