BlueSky Posted April 23, 2019 Share #351 Posted April 23, 2019 Well, now is a good time to repair 2nd gear if you want it repaired. It shouldn't be a lot of labor or cost involved if you could find a mechanic who is familiar with how to repair it. Like Puc and many others have proven, the bike will be reliable without 2nd gear if it is not important to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
made2care Posted April 24, 2019 Author Share #352 Posted April 24, 2019 If it's a 1300 engine, that could be good news. Have you checked the engine number? yes, its a 1200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaj1917 Posted April 24, 2019 Share #353 Posted April 24, 2019 Okay. I guess you have a decision to make about repairing 2nd gear. Don't do it, have a mechanic do it, or do it yourself. I chose to repair it myself on my '84. Not that complex, honestly. The fact that you've been able to pretty much totally disassemble your mc, tells me you'd get on just fine splitting the engine cases and picking away at the transmission. Lots of help here on the forum. That, along with a service manual, will get you through the repair. Repair parts are still available, and not terribly expensive. Or get a good used '85+ transmission and install that (using your middle gear components though!) You will need some special tools. I built an apparatus to compress the axle drive for disassembly. You'll also need a good impact driver, with preferably JIS (Japanese) heads. And, snap ring pliers. As a bonus, while inside the engine you'll have a chance to inspect other items for wear/breakage, like the shift forks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
made2care Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share #354 Posted April 25, 2019 I've made my decision. I really want to ride this bike this summer and do not want to tackle the 2nd gear. I have been painstakingly checking online for a late 85 engine with no luck. I realize most of you think I should fix it, especially since the engine is out but I'm eager to see this engine turn. Sorry for the let down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 25, 2019 Share #355 Posted April 25, 2019 Why only go with a late 85 engine? If I were you I would also include the 1300 engine. I think the last couple years had a different ignition system, but there should be a bunch of those around. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
made2care Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share #356 Posted April 26, 2019 Why only go with a late 85 engine? If I were you I would also include the 1300 engine. I think the last couple years had a different ignition system, but there should be a bunch of those around. Randy I'm still learning here. I thought a late 85 would be a simple 'plug and play". So what year 1300 which would require fewer changes Ie: electrical and son on and will fit an 83 frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
made2care Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share #357 Posted April 26, 2019 I found an 88 engine, looks like it might fit my 83 frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 26, 2019 Share #358 Posted April 26, 2019 How complete is the 88 engine? That would be a good option. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanK84VR Posted April 26, 2019 Share #359 Posted April 26, 2019 I Picked up an 88 1300 for my 84 VR, same block as the 1200 on the outside just different Bore, Vmax Heads and Cams will bump you from 97 hp up to 120HP give or take. Engine mounts exactly the same, up to 1993, 2nd gen the rear cyl exhaust ports are different. HermanK84VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickersguy Posted April 26, 2019 Share #360 Posted April 26, 2019 ( WARNING, NOT AN EXPERT ON THIS ) There are some folks who know better than I do, but I've been poking around with the same question. I think, if you use the drive shaft you have, it should fit into the yoke of a 1300 engine. The swing arms are not the same length. While the engine will fit, the electrical system is different. This is not a bad thing. The electrical components of the '83 are unique and expensive. You would need the carbs, the "black box" ignition module , probably the coils too, and some other assorted bits. The pic-ups on the 1300 engine require the newer box. Perhaps the Instrument pod with the speedo and tac would be required. It can be done but a project that should be done where you are in the rebuild process, rather than one to do later. As for wanting to ride this summer. It's a good goal. I've managed to do this after a fashion, but there are always little things that pop up after you have a few miles on that will require additional attention and you will be down for a bit. I've had the fairing off twice since I've "finished", had the cabs off once, and this coming winter, will tear out the whole fork system for a rebuild. Right now, with 60 miles since I got "done", I have a problem with the right front cylinder ignition that I've got to sort out. That means the fairing, battery box, air box etc. again. For the third time. Any shortcuts you take will come back at you. I know you have the skill set for this and skipping the second gear fix is a personal choice. I would fix the gear because I like second gear. Not having second gear compromises the overall quality of the bike and affects drivability. If you want a great restoration and have an original machine with all the quality it should have, there is no other option. The great plastic which makes a restoration look so good, is makeup on a pig if the machine underneath is cobbled together. I've seen your work and I think the more you compromise the less satisfied you will be with the end result. After all. look at the frame you've just done. You didn't just weld in a couple pieces of strap irn and hit it with rustolium, did you ? The job you did was awesome and I'll do the same when the time comes. I think I better have some breakfast. Later ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted April 26, 2019 Share #361 Posted April 26, 2019 Yup, the easiest way is to pick up a MK2 wiring harness from '86 - '90 and a TCI box from '84 - '90. The main frames are the same for all years 1st gen. The MK2 has different sub-frames but they bolt right on. With the different harness you will also have to change out your speedometer cluster as the '83 is unique. All this stuff is found on eBay for a reasonable price usually, except the TCI which for a good working one they want a small fortune for! There are aftermarket TCI's available that will work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted April 26, 2019 Share #362 Posted April 26, 2019 Be easier to fix 2nd gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted April 26, 2019 Share #363 Posted April 26, 2019 I agree 100% with Blue Sky!! The videos will get you to the transmission, and I'm pretty sure someone has taken pictures or done a write-up on how to change that pesky thrust washer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted April 26, 2019 Share #364 Posted April 26, 2019 There's a pretty good write-up in the tech library. I posted it but don't remember now who actually wrote it. Note that it wasn't me. https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?508-Second-Gear-Repair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
made2care Posted April 27, 2019 Author Share #365 Posted April 27, 2019 mmmmmmmmmm...................I'm reading the 2nd gear repair thread. The gear kit alone is over $300 !!!! Crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 27, 2019 Share #366 Posted April 27, 2019 mmmmmmmmmm...................I'm reading the 2nd gear repair thread. The gear kit alone is over $300 !!!! Crazy! It probably is if you do it that way. I have made suggestions and you keep ignoring them. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
made2care Posted April 27, 2019 Author Share #367 Posted April 27, 2019 If you pick up a trans out of a later model engine from above S/N 1413 on an 85, you will not need to disassemble the gear shafts. So, Damon's video may help you. There are several 1st and 2nd gen transmissions on ebay, some cheap and some not. I would not buy any that says 83/85 unless you knew it was a later 85. Now, another thing to consider on replacing the gear/shaft set is many bad 2nd gear trans have a slightly bent fork due to 2nd gear kicking out against the fork. I know many years ago when I did my 1st trans repair, my fork was bent. I am still saying that the best bet is to go to the 2nd gen trans and I have everything you need, including the upgraded shift drum that was a definite problem on the 1st gens with the pins coming out. According to which pin that came out, you may only have 1st or you may have 1st,2nd and 3rd gear as it would only shift so far. Randy Yup, here is your suggestion. I'm contemplating this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted April 27, 2019 Share #368 Posted April 27, 2019 Is the rear gear ratio the same in all 1st Gens and 2nd Gens? The 2nd Gens are geared really high and are the changes all in the transmission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 27, 2019 Share #369 Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) Is the rear gear ratio the same in all 1st Gens and 2nd Gens? The 2nd Gens are geared really high and are the changes all in the transmission? I think they are. The difference is the spacing between the transmission gears. This is why the VMax ratio, being about 10% lower is so good. I know that a lot of 2nd gen guys did VMax swap and I also did the 2nd gen trans swap and VMax rear end swap on my 83. What you get as a comparison with stock on a 1st gen is 1st gear is about 10% lower. 2nd is 5% lower. 3rd and 4th are the same and 5th is about 5% higher. Not only does it give you that killer acceleration in 1st and 2nd, but at highway speeds, that 5% higher gear in 5th keeps you from feeling like you need one more gear. It also solves the shifter drum problem and bent fork problem. One other thing, if you have a 2nd gen rear end already, the driveshaft should fit a VMax rear end, but an early 1st gen driveshaft is different and had its own problems and that is probably why your bike ended up with a replacement 2nd gen rear end Randy Edited April 27, 2019 by Venturous Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycyclone Posted April 27, 2019 Share #370 Posted April 27, 2019 mmmmmmmmmm...................I'm reading the 2nd gear repair thread. The gear kit alone is over $300 !!!! Crazy! My understanding is the original recommendation from Yamaha was to replace the thrust washer and the thrust plate. You can always take it as far as you want including installing a complete Vmax engine with trans. That tends to get a little pricey. If you want to do it on a budget then go with the plate and washer. Of course you will need some other small items like gaskets. I would also recommend you inspect all of the gears for wear and also the groove in the shaft where the thrust plate fits into. Any wear here and you would need more than just the plate and washer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted April 27, 2019 Share #371 Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) According to my shop manuals that are on a disc, the 1st and 2nd Gens do have the same rear gear, 2.567. The trans gears are the following: 1st Gen 2nd Gen 2.600 2.529 1.772 1.632 1.347 1.200 1.068 0.960 0.906 0.786 And the Vmax rear gear is a 3.082 ratio from what I see when I google. Edited April 28, 2019 by BlueSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted April 28, 2019 Share #372 Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) I have yet to see a 2nd gear problem that did not have considerable wear on the leading edges of where 2nd gear engages. Many years ago when I had problems with my 2nd gear, I did what was known as the undercut on the gear after grinding it back to a sharp edge. I also had to fix my bent fork where 2nd gear had put so much pressure on it that it also limited the depth of engagement, therefore adding to the problem. With what I know now, I would not do any of this. If you are interested, I will make you a deal on a COMPLETE 2nd gen transmission and throw in the solid motor mounts. PM me if you are interested. Randy Edited April 28, 2019 by Venturous Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
made2care Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share #373 Posted April 28, 2019 Okay, i called Venterous Randy and the game is on. He convinced me to tackle 2nd gear and will be providing necessary parts. I believe this is the right thing to do since the engine is out of bike and of course various other reasons too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaj1917 Posted April 28, 2019 Share #374 Posted April 28, 2019 Alright! That's the spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted April 28, 2019 Share #375 Posted April 28, 2019 You will enjoy the bike a hell of a lot more when it is at its full potential!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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