jimmyenglish Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share #26 Posted September 27, 2012 HI guys, thanks so much for all the responses. I have not dissassembled the fork. I haven't changed anything other than the springs and ditched the AD's (I gave them away so I can't try putting them back on). I don't know what's happening but when I put oil in them, they are very difficult to compress. I drained and tried brake fluid. Every bit as difficult to compress. It's as if the oil is being smushed through some tiny hole internally somewhere on compression. Will Vmax forks fit? I was looking at one today and thinking of just putting vmax forks on? I wish I knew why this was such an issue. I haven't ridden (nor will I) the bike since my big trip (the first w/the new springs). Sucks, I don't know what to do other than replace everything (which is the next move). I know everybody says the block offs are the same as the AD's but when the AD's were installed in the past, the front end would compress like a regular bike with the ignition off. Something is wrong here. Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfVenture Posted September 27, 2012 Share #27 Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) I have an extra set of ADs if you want to come and try them since you're only about 30 minutes away. Edited September 27, 2012 by Golf&Venture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted September 28, 2012 Share #28 Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) HI guys, thanks so much for all the responses. I have not dissassembled the fork. I haven't changed anything other than the springs and ditched the AD's (I gave them away so I can't try putting them back on). I don't know what's happening but when I put oil in them, they are very difficult to compress. I drained and tried brake fluid. Every bit as difficult to compress. It's as if the oil is being smushed through some tiny hole internally somewhere on compression. Will Vmax forks fit? I was looking at one today and thinking of just putting vmax forks on? I wish I knew why this was such an issue. I haven't ridden (nor will I) the bike since my big trip (the first w/the new springs). Sucks, I don't know what to do other than replace everything (which is the next move). I know everybody says the block offs are the same as the AD's but when the AD's were installed in the past, the front end would compress like a regular bike with the ignition off. Something is wrong here. Thanks everyone! Fender mounts are very different on a VMax. Gary Edited September 28, 2012 by dingy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted September 28, 2012 Share #29 Posted September 28, 2012 Try some fork oil, 10wgt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted September 28, 2012 Share #30 Posted September 28, 2012 Try some fork oil, 10wgt Agree with what your saying Carl, but if brake fluid was tried & stiff, I don't think fork oil will be any better. Brake fluid is rather 'watery", non technical term, thin, low viscosity. Still don't think it's the block off plates, but not as sure as I was. I have them on with progressives & forks are fine. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfVenture Posted September 28, 2012 Share #31 Posted September 28, 2012 You know, I recall having a lot of issues with my progressive springs earlier this year. They were hard as concrete and I put the block offs on also at the same time. I ended up using 10 wt oil, no spacers, only the washer, kept the block offs on. But I measured down to 7 inches of oil and found the ride a bit softer but still very firm. I went with it that way. I only weight in at 170/175 lbs. However, I was able to move the forks up and down, by grabing the wheel. I did have the oil in, and without the caps off. That was in my 91 VR. Now on my 89 VR, I also put progressive springs in, kept the ADs on for a few members said that in an emergency that the AD would come in handy. I put 10 wt oil in but I removed 9 inches of oil for I still wanted a bit more softer ride. I was told that even at 9 inches of oil removed that all the fork internals would still get well lubricated. And I figured I could experiment with the air to get the ride I want. Just one thing. I won't be able report on the ride on my 89 VR until next year when I recover fully from my accident. I've managed to get enough movement on my fingers to make a fist aboput 75%. That was enough for my hand/wrist Dr. So I'll be in surgury this coming Monday to get my 8 or so wrist bones in there proper location and some reconstructive bone surgury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted September 28, 2012 Share #32 Posted September 28, 2012 ouch hope all works out for you hands that work are kinda nice to have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted September 28, 2012 Share #33 Posted September 28, 2012 Agree with what your saying Carl, but if brake fluid was tried & stiff, I don't think fork oil will be any better. Brake fluid is rather 'watery", non technical term, thin, low viscosity. Still don't think it's the block off plates, but not as sure as I was. I have them on with progressives & forks are fine. Gary I know it should work, at least there would seem to be some logic in it all,,,, not trying to be a smart ass here, but fork oil is fork oil, and brake fluid is not fork oil. Just checked and sure enough they come in different bottles, different colors, and the brake fluid seems to flow better,,,,,, but,,,,, the fork oil is slippery, the brake fluid grabs,,, so I noticed there is a difference,,,, maybe that's why they make different things for different applications. I'm not that smart, but it seems if your having problems, one needs to check what is different than the instructions,,,,,, darn threw them out already,,,,,, and here I don't see fork oil. What do I know,,,, not much,,, but if it says fork oil, I might even try it, just for kicks, maybe even no kicks but then I've learned something. The oil in the forks I think is forced through those 3 washers, 2 wave washers and 1 flat washer. The design is there,,, again, what do I know. I'll be quiet now.,,,,caution,,,,,,, just for a little while, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyenglish Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share #34 Posted September 28, 2012 Thanks again guys. I have tried fork oil as well: there is no change. As I said, I'm very confused because before I took it apart the forks were fine. I haven't dropped anything in the tubes nor disassembled anything other than removing the cap to put the new springs in and remove the AD's. I'm using brake fluid because it's cheap. Most of the last two bottles of $10 fork oil ended up on the floor and me. So, if I can get some functional forks I look forward to dialing it in with some kind of nice oil. I'm going to rip the forks apart today. I'll take pictures of anything weird. Is the fender the only thing different on the vMax forks? Analyzing a vmax yesterday they look badass and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankd Posted September 29, 2012 Share #35 Posted September 29, 2012 I don't think you want to use brake fluid. It may swell the seals. Frank d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIC Posted September 29, 2012 Share #36 Posted September 29, 2012 I also think the brake fluid is wrong. I know some have used transmission fluid, but brake fluid might destroy the rubber parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyenglish Posted September 29, 2012 Author Share #37 Posted September 29, 2012 Hi guys, I disassmbled the forks today. They are perfectly fine, all parts there. I removed the block off plates and discovered all the oil pooled on the top hole. Furthermore, I've been studying the pdf Gary posted with the detailed blowups of the AD system. According to the diagram oil should be flowing through the units until braking. I know everybody says that the block offs are the same as the AD's unplugged but the diagram clearly shows the opposite. Seems there should be a channel carved into the block offs for the oil to flow. Or maybe I could drill a passage? I gave my AD's away. ANybody got a set for an 86' they want to sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamamike Posted October 1, 2012 Share #38 Posted October 1, 2012 Sorry to hijack the thread but are there any of you out there running Progressives with 5W oil? I have 10W in mine and I find the ride quite harsh on smallish bumps, rail crossings, small pot holes. I installed the Progressives with no spacer and removed the air system to allow for lowering the tripple clamps on the forks. I know my Kenda Kruz's have stiff sidewalls and likely contribute alot to the harshness but wonder if switching to 5W will help. I see in some threads, guys suggesting reducing the amount of oil...I don't see how that would help soften the ride?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted October 1, 2012 Share #39 Posted October 1, 2012 Hi guys, I disassmbled the forks today. They are perfectly fine, all parts there. I removed the block off plates and discovered all the oil pooled on the top hole. Furthermore, I've been studying the pdf Gary posted with the detailed blowups of the AD system. According to the diagram oil should be flowing through the units until braking. I know everybody says that the block offs are the same as the AD's unplugged but the diagram clearly shows the opposite. Seems there should be a channel carved into the block offs for the oil to flow. Or maybe I could drill a passage? I gave my AD's away. ANybody got a set for an 86' they want to sell? Shipped set of AD valves today. New orings in package. Mounting screws & clips in there also. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted October 1, 2012 Share #40 Posted October 1, 2012 Sorry to hijack the thread but are there any of you out there running Progressives with 5W oil? I have 10W in mine and I find the ride quite harsh on smallish bumps, rail crossings, small pot holes. I installed the Progressives with no spacer and removed the air system to allow for lowering the tripple clamps on the forks. I know my Kenda Kruz's have stiff sidewalls and likely contribute alot to the harshness but wonder if switching to 5W will help. I see in some threads, guys suggesting reducing the amount of oil...I don't see how that would help soften the ride?? By reducing the level of the oil in the fork tube, the amount of the air pocket is increased by same amount. As the fork is collapsed when hitting a bump, outer tube is forced upwards over the iner tube. This causes the air that is contained above the fork oil level to be compressed to allow for the now reduced volume. As a given volume of air is compressed, its PSI increases. If the oil level is an inch or two lower in the fork tubes, the air volume above the oil is increased in its volume. The same amount of fork travel will then causes the pressure increase in the fork tube to be less due to larger initial air volume. With less air pressure in tubes, there will be more of a cushioning effect of the bump being hit. The progresive shocks show only a MAX. level in the instructions, it also seems implied in their instructions that a somewhat lower level may be acceptable. My disclaimer on this is it's only an opinion. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyenglish Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share #41 Posted October 2, 2012 Thanks Gary. I'm looking forward to trying this out. Sure hope it works. On another note, has anyone actually gone frankestein and put a modern front end on? Seems like there's quite a few bikes that have 41mm forks and a ton that share the same steering stem bearing size. Oogling over this newer (pre 1800 or whatever it is) vMax (early 2000's?), I got real excited thinking about just strapping the entire front end on. I am aware that they're (97' on or so) 43mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Myers Posted October 3, 2012 Share #42 Posted October 3, 2012 Hi guys, I disassmbled the forks today. They are perfectly fine, all parts there. I removed the block off plates and discovered all the oil pooled on the top hole. Furthermore, I've been studying the pdf Gary posted with the detailed blowups of the AD system. According to the diagram oil should be flowing through the units until braking. I know everybody says that the block offs are the same as the AD's unplugged but the diagram clearly shows the opposite. Seems there should be a channel carved into the block offs for the oil to flow. Or maybe I could drill a passage? I gave my AD's away. ANybody got a set for an 86' they want to sell? For some reason I'm just reading this whole thing now, all you had to do was ask and those would've been on their way back to you, in the same box you shipped them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyenglish Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share #43 Posted October 3, 2012 No Bob. Design your plates. I hate the idea of having to put them back on but if they work, I'm going to design a tube or something much smaller for the oil to pass through so I'll be getting rid of these new ones anyway Thanks Bob. Very kind of you but I'm no Indian giver. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted October 3, 2012 Share #44 Posted October 3, 2012 No Bob. Design your plates. I hate the idea of having to put them back on but if they work, I'm going to design a tube or something much smaller for the oil to pass through so I'll be getting rid of these new ones anyway Thanks Bob. Very kind of you but I'm no Indian giver. Thanks! Earl (Skydoc-17) already sells block off plates, they are listed in classifieds. http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3777&title=first-genmki-vr-anti-dive-s-sblock-off-plates-21&cat=22 http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3776&title=first-genmkii-vr-s-santi-dive-block-off-plates-21&cat=22 Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Myers Posted October 4, 2012 Share #45 Posted October 4, 2012 Gary, I'm just like you, I'll make what I want, if I can, instead of buying it for less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyenglish Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share #46 Posted October 4, 2012 Hey gang, finally reassembled the front end with the AD's back on and lo and behold, night and day. Took a test ride around the horrid roads of Tacoma and wow, it rides just like a bike from the 80's! 10wt oil, no air, AD's disconnected. Still, huge difference from before. Thanks Gary. One more question, how exactly do the air collars go back on? I thought they went over the circlips but I couldn't get them over those and of course, they leak like crazy now. Not that I'll ever use the CLASS (for the front). They sit just above the circlips. The manual just said to put them back on. How? Still be interested in a truly modern upgrade for this otherwise awesome motorcycle. I've ridden almost all of them and the Venture front suspension is, IMO, by far the worst. Especially considering how heavy it is. Should be cadilac like. I rode my friend's new Victory Crosstour (I know, not a fair comparison) last Aug and man, the front end was butter smooth! That was really all that I liked about it but I couldn't help but ponder how some nice forks up front would make the Venture totally awesome! Thanks again to all that chimed in. What a great forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairiehammer Posted October 4, 2012 Share #47 Posted October 4, 2012 From September 21:Put the anti-dive units back on. Don't hook them up electrically. See what that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted October 4, 2012 Share #48 Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Gary, I'm just like you, I'll make what I want, if I can, instead of buying it for less money. Based on this experience I might like to design a set with a cross connected channel between AD ports. May be able to use a set screw to restrict the channel and provide an alternate way of adjusting fork reaction. Probable could be done in 3/4" or less thickness. I have the block off plates already modeled in CAD, I worked with Earl on getting drawings for his. Gary Edited October 4, 2012 by dingy block off set screw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyenglish Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share #49 Posted October 5, 2012 An adjustable valve would be awesome. Let me know when you get your design done. I'm down for a pair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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