V7Goose Posted August 31, 2011 Share #26 Posted August 31, 2011 It was worth the extra money to me.And at the end of the day, that is really the only thing that matters. That is why there are options out there, and why I at least like to mention them, even if they are not worth the money to me. Glad you are happy with it. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted August 31, 2011 Share #27 Posted August 31, 2011 Sorry, but most of what you say is just wrong. OK, that's it for me. If you think I have said something incorrect, then let's prove it and get it corrected so we do not spread bad information. Otherwise, I'm done with this subject. Peace. Goose Rick, put your popcorn away, this ain't going any farther. I don't know everything there is to know when it comes to Ventures, but I do know what the 'H' I'm talking about when it comes to clutches and brakes on Ventures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Haywood Posted August 31, 2011 Share #28 Posted August 31, 2011 I have that pretty purple pressure plate in the bike since 2005 and never had another lick of trouble. Its kinda like back in my old hot rod days when the diaphragm pressure plate in the Chevys went south and it was replaced with a "finger" pressure plate. While the Barnett set-up costs more I feel that its a "true upgraded conversion" since your eliminating a weak design and replacing it with a 6 spring design. It was worth the extra money to me. Me too, but there always has to be comments with the sarcarsm in them because someone doesn't agree with the other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Hawg Posted August 31, 2011 Share #29 Posted August 31, 2011 I have that pretty purple pressure plate in the bike since 2005 and never had another lick of trouble. Its kinda like back in my old hot rod days when the diaphragm pressure plate in the Chevys went south and it was replaced with a "finger" pressure plate. While the Barnett set-up costs more I feel that its a "true upgraded conversion" since your eliminating a weak design and replacing it with a 6 spring design. It was worth the extra money to me. Sooooo....... If I paint my stock 6-spring pressure plate in my 83 a nice purple color (and take a picture for my wallet), will it quit slipping too? And I should save a lot of money too, right?:rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted August 31, 2011 Share #30 Posted August 31, 2011 Sooooo....... If I paint my stock 6-spring pressure plate in my 83 a nice purple color (and take a picture for my wallet), will it quit slipping too? And I should save a lot of money too, right?:rotf: Save the paint, and pick up a set of Barnet Coil Springs. By now your '83 needs them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jactana Posted August 31, 2011 Share #31 Posted August 31, 2011 ...and thus the reason I upgraded my clutch "modified,... not rebuilt" with skydoc's kit. In fact, one of my steel discs were already showing some "blueing". I have SkyDoc's upgrade too, and my discs were already "blueing" at 30000 KMS. I put in the upgraded components, and rode to Arizona and back in June, works great. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvrT Posted August 31, 2011 Share #32 Posted August 31, 2011 Based on the mileages folks are "upgrading" their clutches and comments such as "already blueing", etc .... seems pretty apparent that the clutch on these Ventures is a real POS. Of all the scoots I've owned over the years, I've never had to do any clutch work until I bought my '85 VR ... had to replace the clutch on it .... clutch on the '87 VR was slipping a bit... and same on the '06 RSV. WTF gives anyway?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvester Posted August 31, 2011 Share #33 Posted August 31, 2011 Based on the mileages folks are "upgrading" their clutches and comments such as "already blueing", etc .... seems pretty apparent that the clutch on these Ventures is a real POS. Of all the scoots I've owned over the years, I've never had to do any clutch work until I bought my '85 VR ... had to replace the clutch on it .... clutch on the '87 VR was slipping a bit... and same on the '06 RSV. WTF gives anyway?? Like any mechanical device things happen that are not part of the original engineering module. Every car, truck and motorcycle after production experiences mechanical and electrical issues. This is what we have and we deal with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Hawg Posted August 31, 2011 Share #34 Posted August 31, 2011 There's always a limiting factor. The weakest link in a chain is the first to break. Fix that and you can pull more but you will find the next weakest link and so on . . . . You simply have too much power:shock3: Try unhooking 2 plug wires, I think your clutch will hold fine then:whistling: :rotf::rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted August 31, 2011 Share #35 Posted August 31, 2011 Folks, I agree with those here who say that the stock springs on these RSVs are just weak. I have owned two '99 models. I can assure you that the clutches were maintained per the manual and I can PROMISE you that neither bike ever had any type of oil used in them that was not specifically made for motorcycles with wet clutches. On my first '99, the clutch started slipping at just over 30,000 miles. On my current '99, the stock spring was replaced at my last maintenance day with about 30,000 miles on it. In the first case, I changed out only the spring and that corrected the problem. On my current bike, SkyDoc installed his complete kit in it. I don't expect that I will ever experience any slipping again. Yes, the springs in these RSVs are a weak point. I have never had to replace the disks or the plates. The good news is that it is a cheap and simple fix. It's just not a big deal to correct the problem. If you are running the stock clutch and it is not yet slipping, I would recommend replacing it anyway somewhere around the 30,000 mile mark. If it is not already slipping, it will soon enough. Just get it over with already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jactana Posted August 31, 2011 Share #36 Posted August 31, 2011 I suspect Yamaha's designers was attempting to provide an easy clutch pull for the cruising crowd when they put this weaker spring in this detuned V-max engine. I think they underestimated the effect of the additional windage and considerable additional weight. Anyways, it's a cheap fix, even if you get a mechanic to install the upgraded components, whichever one's you choose. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scarylarry Posted August 31, 2011 Share #37 Posted August 31, 2011 Is the upgraded spring that much stiffer to pull in? Thanks for clearing this up for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvrT Posted August 31, 2011 Share #38 Posted August 31, 2011 Is the upgraded spring that much stiffer to pull in? Thanks for clearing this up for me... From my experience, no it isn't. In my case tho, I changed from the upgraded spring to a double stock spring setup and even it isn't that difficult; however, if you are stuck in stop-and-go traffic for a long time and you have weak hands, it can be bothersome... so far I have managed but I do find myself kicking it into neutral more often than I ever did before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scarylarry Posted August 31, 2011 Share #39 Posted August 31, 2011 From my experience, no it isn't. In my case tho, I changed from the upgraded spring to a double stock spring setup and even it isn't that difficult; however, if you are stuck in stop-and-go traffic for a long time and you have weak hands, it can be bothersome... so far I have managed but I do find myself kicking it into neutral more often than I ever did before. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted August 31, 2011 Share #40 Posted August 31, 2011 Is the upgraded spring that much stiffer to pull in? Thanks for clearing this up for me...No, it is not. If you just replace the spring, you will find very little difference from the stock setup (other than no slipping). If you replace both the spring and change the half plate to a full plate, then you will find the friction zone is smaller. Not a problem at all for most people with good clutch control. The stock half plate and wave washer (a kind of weak weenie spring) cause the stock clutch to start engaging and slipping very quickly when you begin releasing the handle, but the full engagement does not happen until near the end. When you remove that weenie spring and put in a full plate, the entire friction zone is near the end of the lever throw as you release it. Anyone with poor clutch control is better off leaving the half plate and weenie spring in the stock setup. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted August 31, 2011 Share #41 Posted August 31, 2011 This explanation was passed on to me by a Yamaha regional rep as to why the clutches are weak on the Second Gen. RSV's and RSTD's. (Also the MKII VR's that didn't have the 5 year warranty) It goes like this.... Clutches and brake parts are considered "wear parts" under the 5 year Yamaha warranty. (Which means that they ARE NOT covered) The Yamaha V4 being what it is, very dependable, doesn't leave a lot of Dealer Maintenance work to be done on these bikes. Yamaha is Fully aware of the clutch spring problem, and has been since the introduction of the MKII First Gen. Venture Royale back in 1986. Part of the issue is Yamaha didn't want the clutch to be "Too Grabby" from a standing start which would scare a lot of first time riders moving up to a bike this big. BUT the REAL reason is that a LOT of owners take their bikes back to the dealer when the clutch starts to slip, and this generates a TON of money for the dealers once they point out that the warranty doesn't cover the clutch spring, or the damage to the clutch friction discs and steel clutch plates once the spring starts to fail and allows the clutch to slip. When I added the FJR1300 Final Drive, VMAX Heads, Cams and Carbs. to my 87'VR, within a week, my clutch was slipping. During this time, the PCW Spring was not available. (Nor was my kit for that matter) While working on the VMAX's at the shop, when we did the 1500cc "Big Bore" Conversion, we automatically added a second stock spring to the first. And the clutches did not slip. I solved my problem by doing the "Double D" mod on my 87'VR, and ran that mod for a few years until the PCW Spring came out. (I wanted to ad that the pull on 2 stock Clutch Diaphragm Springs will allow you to "Crack Walnuts" with your left hand after about 6 weeks of everyday riding!) I now have the kit I sell in my 87'VR and to date, it has functioned flawlessly. I can absolutely assure you that I run my 87'VR WAY harder than 95% of the riders on this site. My bike sees a 10,000 red line EVERY day I ride, I pull wheelies, I do burn outs, I speed shift, and I pull a trailer loaded with tools and camping gear regularly with no ill affects to the clutch system. If you feel your clutch slip a single time, Don't Wait! Install a better Clutch Diaphragm Spring, (Or the Barnett Kit) to save the expense of the clutch friction discs, and steel clutch plates. AND if you think your local Yamaha dealer mechanics are the only people in the entire world that can install a clutch in your bike, then you are NOT giving yourself enough credit. I personally think that it is more time consuming to replace the brake pads on three calipers than it is to install the clutch kit I offer. I stand behind EVERY item I offer with Tech. Support by PM, Email, and REAL TIME cell phone communication. OR you can stop by the shop, and I will be happy to install one of the many kits I offer. NO MATTER where you buy your Clutch Diaphragm Spring Kit from, if your clutch starts to slip, BUY the kit. You'll be glad you did. Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvrT Posted August 31, 2011 Share #42 Posted August 31, 2011 Anyone with poor clutch control is better off leaving the half plate and weenie spring in the stock setup. Goose If you include having small hands and or short fingers which makes it difficult to work the clutch "friction zone" when the lever is almost fully released in the category of "poor clutch control". Under that circumstance, a person is using only the "first knuckle" of their finger which is considerably weaker than the "second knuckle" so consequently your hand/wrist will get sore quicker, not to mention the long-term damaging effect it might have on your tendons (carpal tunnel anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scarylarry Posted August 31, 2011 Share #43 Posted August 31, 2011 No, it is not. If you just replace the spring, you will find very little difference from the stock setup (other than no slipping). If you replace both the spring and change the half plate to a full plate, then you will find the friction zone is smaller. Not a problem at all for most people with good clutch control. The stock half plate and wave washer (a kind of weak weenie spring) cause the stock clutch to start engaging and slipping very quickly when you begin releasing the handle, but the full engagement does not happen until near the end. When you remove that weenie spring and put in a full plate, the entire friction zone is near the end of the lever throw as you release it. Anyone with poor clutch control is better off leaving the half plate and weenie spring in the stock setup. Goose Thanks so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2011 Share #44 Posted September 1, 2011 Sooooo....... If I paint my stock 6-spring pressure plate in my 83 a nice purple color (and take a picture for my wallet), will it quit slipping too? And I should save a lot of money too, right?:rotf: Those old relics will need more then a painted clutch plate........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted September 1, 2011 Share #45 Posted September 1, 2011 Hey Earl, what is your clutch kit? Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golftodd Posted September 1, 2011 Share #46 Posted September 1, 2011 I recently purchased a 2005 Midnight Venture with 42K miles. I went on my first long ride this past weekend and noticed some slippage in 4th and 5th gear. I decided to change the oil to have a base starting point and also make sure it had good oil thinking this may help. However, I just went for a short ride after changing oil with Mobil 1 4T and now the slip appears to be worse than before. Guess I need to go ahead and order the clutch spring kit and hope the disc are OK. Thanks for all of the advise on this site, I find it very helpful. Thanks, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitlow Posted September 1, 2011 Share #47 Posted September 1, 2011 So I did a PCW clutch upgrade kit on my last RSV what and where can I find more info on the SkyDoc's upgrade? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted September 1, 2011 Share #48 Posted September 1, 2011 It's the same thing. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider Posted September 1, 2011 Share #49 Posted September 1, 2011 So I did a PCW clutch upgrade kit on my last RSV what and where can I find more info on the SkyDoc's upgrade? Thanks Send a pm to Skydoc17. He will fill you in with the details. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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