muffinman Posted October 21, 2007 Share #1 Posted October 21, 2007 Don forgive me for posting this I will understand if you remove it but I would like all the members to sign this and also send an email to their state represenative on the subject. http://www.petitiononline.com/sabiker/ Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonRider Posted October 21, 2007 Share #2 Posted October 21, 2007 I signed it and in comments I put Member-VentureRider.org...........hope it helps....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEER30 Posted October 21, 2007 Share #3 Posted October 21, 2007 I signed ! BEER30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kregerdoodle Posted October 21, 2007 Share #4 Posted October 21, 2007 I Signed it !! Pray it gets there attention!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KitCarson Posted October 21, 2007 Share #5 Posted October 21, 2007 Folks I want to try to explain to you: Carefully:I Do not like the word Low-Life in this petition and I do not think Don will remove this. This is an opportunity for another healthy discussion. Some of us are involved in an MC Accident most likely each and every hour...as the internet and communications get better and better, we learn about it much more quickly. So we become more informed. However with out going to one extreme to the other...which seems to be the situation when you get these hot topics in play. Those who run over a motorcycle or directly or indirectly cause an accident, are not really low lifes. They are just like you and I, people with family and those who care for them and they care for others also.......they just as we do, make a mistake. They were not paying attention, talking on the Cell Phone, Day Dreaming, or like I have said before.....sometimes the mind fools the Brain.....you think you see, but you do not....... Accident happen all the time........to everyone....motorcycles, cars, trucks......people fall in the bath tub......last night on the news a young girl got killed.........in a car Something else........hope this is relevant......I am independent as can be....self employed....strong willed........spent 6 years in Vietnam, 4 years and 10 months and two days in combat. I because of this can get a little forceful in an friendly discussion.......but that time was spent to allow everyone in this country to have the right to think as they will....the ones who drive cars and talk on Cell Phones, and do other silly things.....have the right to do this. We have the right to ride a Motorcycle and stay alive also........ The world has grown.....a lot of people on the road, more and more bikes on the road........so it does get more and more involved. I did not know Gary.....I have been reluctant to even say much about that, because I am ,so damm independent and quick to say something, but it saddens me when any biker goes down and gets hurt. I think it was a combination of all factors.....a young kid who made some mistakes, and a rider who made some too....defensive riding is a constant occupation, and on that note.....let me say my wife has ran over a rider, yep she sure did. I myself in a work vehicle pulling a backhoe, ran one off the road...yep shure did.......he came up beside me and then dissappeared, was sitting in a blind spot........I changed lanes and got him(nothing hurt but his feelings!) So this stuff happens, to all of us....... I think doing constructive things are much better, such as defensive riding schools.........wear a helmet , use or not use this new modulator contraption we are some of us going to.......and anything else you can think of .....to become a professional defensive rider.......do things to be seen.......be courteous to everyone....... A petition such as this what little notice it will get from our politicians(I do not like politicians-but this is another story!!) will do more harm than good. Something like this has to be carefully thought out......and words like low-life not used. The girl who may have caused....and certainly contributed to this recent accident, with the loss of life , is no low life......just a child......one like so many of us hold dear ourselves....she made a mistake, we all do.......this petition is not the way to address this. Respectfully..Kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eck Posted October 21, 2007 Share #6 Posted October 21, 2007 I too agree with many things stated by Kit.. I Do not like the word Low-Life in this petition Those who run over a motorcycle or directly or indirectly cause an accident, are not really low lifes. They are just like you and I, people with family and those who care for them and they care for others also.......they just as we do, make a mistake. They were not paying attention, talking on the Cell Phone, Day Dreaming, or like I have said before.....sometimes the mind fools the Brain.....you think you see, but you do not....... Accident happen all the time........to everyone....motorcycles, cars, trucks...... the ones who drive cars and talk on Cell Phones, and do other silly things.....have the right to do this. We have the right to ride a Motorcycle and stay alive also........ I think it was a combination of all factors.....a young kid who made some mistakes, and a rider who may have made some too.... defensive riding is a constant occupation this stuff happens, to all of us....... The girl who may have caused....and certainly contributed to this recent accident, with the loss of life , is no low life......just a child......one like so many of us hold dear ourselves....she made a mistake, we all do....... This 16yr old will live with this mistake for the rest of her life too! Respectfully..Kit Respectfully..Eck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted October 21, 2007 Share #7 Posted October 21, 2007 I signed!! And the LOW-LIFE Crackhead that wiped me out thinks it is funny because it hasn't cost him a penny!! I have yet to meet him face to face. Might go to jail when I meet him!! I also am a Vet but won't blame it on that I just want to pound on him a little the way he did me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Posted October 21, 2007 Share #8 Posted October 21, 2007 There is already law in WV that covers all accidents involving death. The jail sentense in not manditory, but I've saw many drivers do jail time. It depends on the reasoning...... it could ranges from a driver falling to sleep and going left of center, to a drunk driver killing someone..... a jury decides. §17C-5-1. Negligent homicide; penalties. (a) When the death of any person ensues within one year as a proximate result of injury received by the driving of any vehicle anywhere in this state in reckless disregard of the safety of others, the person so operating such vehicle shall be guilty of negligent homicide. (b) Any person convicted of negligent homicide shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than one year or by fine of not less than one hundred dollars nor more than one thousand dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment. © The commissioner shall revoke the license or permit to drive and any nonresident operating privilege of any person convicted of negligent homicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTirelli Posted October 21, 2007 Share #9 Posted October 21, 2007 I have a problem with anything that calls for more serious punishment for killing a biker. I think that someone who kills ANYONE while driving a vehicle should be punished (if found to be at fault ) regardless of the vehicle they were driving. Someone's life is no more or less precious whether they're driving a Hummer or a Venture. Just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEER30 Posted October 21, 2007 Share #10 Posted October 21, 2007 I too agree with many things stated by Kit.. I Do not like the word Low-Life in this petition Those who run over a motorcycle or directly or indirectly cause an accident, are not really low lifes. They are just like you and I, people with family and those who care for them and they care for others also.......they just as we do, make a mistake. They were not paying attention, talking on the Cell Phone, Day Dreaming, or like I have said before.....sometimes the mind fools the Brain.....you think you see, but you do not....... Accident happen all the time........to everyone....motorcycles, cars, trucks...... the ones who drive cars and talk on Cell Phones, and do other silly things.....have the right to do this. We have the right to ride a Motorcycle and stay alive also........ I think it was a combination of all factors.....a young kid who made some mistakes, and a rider who may have made some too.... defensive riding is a constant occupation this stuff happens, to all of us....... The girl who may have caused....and certainly contributed to this recent accident, with the loss of life , is no low life......just a child......one like so many of us hold dear ourselves....she made a mistake, we all do....... This 16yr old will live with this mistake for the rest of her life too!Respectfully..Kit Respectfully..Eck Eck , This petition is not just directed towards people like in our recent incident , but characterize as a general term . I had a drunk hit and run myself and my family that has affected us for the rest of our lives . Now he was a low-life and he just beat his wife and kid the day before we went to court . So saying the term "low-life"is more a general term or meant in the a slang fashion . I've had so-called responsible people at the time of incident be nice and courteous , but afterwards trying to rectify the damages , become low-lifes . This day and age of political correctness has created more controversy than the issues themselves . Even the word "Political" correctness I think is improper . What does politics have to do with it ? I think some people just call it as they see it , just like the pecan , potato , tomato issue . And to put it in better perspective , I can become a low-life if I want too sometimes , :rotf: BEER30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Eagle Posted October 21, 2007 Share #11 Posted October 21, 2007 Kit, some interesting thoughts there, I think. I ended up signing that petition after reading 3/4 of it - after your post went back and read the last line - and definitely would agree that "low life" is the wrong word, and/or the wrong frame of mind, to use. I would think that most m/c accidents are just that, accidents. But, at least in my part of the world, I have witnessed and/or been involved in, "road rage" type actions by vehicles versus myself or our group riders which could have caused several accidents and injuries. There are many more motorcyclists today versus yesterday. Some - or most - are experienced riders who take driving one of these ponies seriously and defensively. Others are new (don't fully yet know how to handle their bike) or just plain idiots (they can be on rockets, cruisers, or even scooters). Everyday on my way to work, I see both styles of m/c riders, and wonder when there is going to be a serious situation up in front of me as a result of one of the idiots crashing - a result of their own idiotic judgements. I truly believe in the MSF course, Ride Like a Pro, etc. I think they are great tools for learning how to handle our bikes. What I don't think happens enough though, is how to continuoulsy evaluate or beware of potential dangers. You are right about daydreaming - I have found myself doing that now every once in a while, and now slap my helmet to refocus. I have always thought that the media is to blame as well. Look at the car ads on TV now. They show professionals driving whatever brand/type vehicle at crazy speeds, stopping on a dime, skidding into a 180 into a parking space, vehicles with the DVD's all over the place, etc etc. This is all cool, but I think it definitely sends a false message to many people (i.e. who reads or hears the small print of professional drivers). I don't believe these e-mail petitions do all that much with the politicians - I think I read something one time on Snopes (I think that is the name of the site) that e-mail petitions (regardless of topic) such as this are mostly ignored. I would have to agree that it seems as if when motorcyclists are involved, there is often no legal action taken, or the slap on a wrist is handed out. Why, I don't know - but it does seem like if one was involved in a car accident and someone is seriously hurt - or fatal - charges are filed - but in the case of motorcycles, they often aren't. That, I think if warrented, is the issue that should be addressed. Going back to an earlier thought though, how does the government (cities throught the fedreal government) assist in creating better driver awareness? Through PSA's, would people watch? Through print ads - if it ain't sexy - who would look at it? Tell the manufacturer's to stop showing their ads of people speeding/drinking coffee/being on the bluetooth/pulling 180's into parking spots,etc? I don't know any answers, but as more and more people are on the road - with twice the many distractions of yesterday - with having to be somewhere an hour ago, but we decided to leave late and make it up by driving crazy, things will continue to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted October 21, 2007 Share #12 Posted October 21, 2007 I have a problem with anything that calls for more serious punishment for killing a biker. I think that someone who kills ANYONE while driving a vehicle should be punished (if found to be at fault ) regardless of the vehicle they were driving. Someone's life is no more or less precious whether they're driving a Hummer or a Venture. Just my opinion Good Point!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Bates Posted October 21, 2007 Share #13 Posted October 21, 2007 No mater what you do and who you are a person should be responsible for his or her actions in all cases. Life is based on decisions and if harm is caused to another person do to a bad decision or negligence that person made there should be some kind of punishment. Accidents are accidents they do happen. But also negligence is negligence. Money and Attorneys these days can and will beat negligence, bad decisions I seen it many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon_One Posted October 21, 2007 Share #14 Posted October 21, 2007 I like Skids W.V. law. Wonder how many other states have one like that? I think it's needed by all of them. Certainly any law on the books will not stop accidents or loss of life while engaged in driving whatever you or the others are driving/riding but just maybe if the whole country had such a law people would take a bit more care in their driving habits. Just knowing there will be serious consequences like madatory jail time may save a few lives. More importantly I feel states do need to improve the standards for one to earn a driving license as well as limits on new drivers until either further testing proves one road worthy or time behind the wheel gains new drivers experince. AS to the above petition I don't think it'll do much good Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeperhawk Posted October 21, 2007 Share #15 Posted October 21, 2007 Folks, just to let you know, AMA is fighting for enforcement of laws when bikes are involved. Go to their web site and you will see articles about cagers getting off with a slap on the wrist for any kind of an accident involving a biker. Seems to me, most think bikers are the "Low Lifes" :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 - UP Posted October 21, 2007 Share #16 Posted October 21, 2007 Don forgive me for posting this I will understand if you remove it but I would like all the members to sign this and also send an email to their state represenative on the subject. http://www.petitiononline.com/sabiker/ Jeff I signed it and forwarded it to a friend of mine who rides a Honda Trike. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just-Jack Posted October 21, 2007 Share #17 Posted October 21, 2007 I to have signed this as well as everybody that is in my email address book an told them that they too should also sign. Jessie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvrT Posted October 21, 2007 Share #18 Posted October 21, 2007 Several years ago I bought a new truck. I pulled off the freeway on an off-ramp onto a 4 lane street. Once on the street, I needed to get over into the left lane. I checked my mirrors, looked right, looked left, it was clear so I changed lanes. At the same time, I could hear a motorcycle. When I looked (mirrors, right, left, etc) I didn't see anyone. Next thing I knew, I could hear a crash...I looked again and here was this biker floped over on the center median behind me. I stopped, checked that he was ok (thank god he was) and I helped him get his bike up and back on the street. He wasn't hurt, the bike was ok. I talked with him a bit and discovered that he was a new rider. I had cut him off. He was coming up in the left lane faster than me and when I began changing lanes, he "froze"... in other words, instead of taking evasive action ie braking, etc... he just froze and hit the curb which knocked him off his bike. OK, so I screwed up because I wasn't familiar yet with my new truck's blind spot. He also screwed up coz he didn't react and brake. Thankfully again that he was ok. I immediately purchased some convex mirrors to put on my side mirrors. The point here is that in some way, we were both at fault. Now, hypothetically, if that person had somehow fallen badly, broke his neck and died.... am I a low-life? should I lose my license for life and go to jail? ...exactly what punishment should I receive which would be in addition to the guilt and memory of what I'd done which I would have for the rest of my life? ... Had he died, would anyone know of his inexperience and that instead of braking to avoid me, he "froze" and hit the curb when in reality, he had sufficient time to brake and avoid that (his own admittance)? Because of the above, I do not agree with that petition. Each and every "accident" is as individual as our fingerprints and each one has to be treated that way. We can't just globally increase the punishment "just because" someone died or "just because" it was a biker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Posted October 21, 2007 Share #19 Posted October 21, 2007 I will not sign that petition for several reasons. One being that I see plenty of stupid actions by bikers themselves. I see them following too close, stopping at the bar for drinks. (By drinks I mean several, not 1 at a break from riding) I have had 2 bikes use both lanes in front of my pickup to impede traffic. My son related the story about when riding with another person they had a biker pull out onto a 55 mile zone highway from a tee road and they damn near got him. The driver had to swerve to miss the bike. My other son talks about how he was coming with a truck and a group of bikers pulled out from a bar location and proceeded to ride slower than the posted limit. Then when they got to the part of the road that was 4 lane they used both lanes and would not let traffic pass. I do not believe that more laws are the answer. Education on both sides of the fence would be a good idea. As for stupid moves I have done plenty and not become a statistic. It is purely by the grace of God that I am here and still able to post this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KitCarson Posted October 21, 2007 Share #20 Posted October 21, 2007 Eck , This petition is not just directed towards people like in our recent incident , but characterize as a general term . I had a drunk hit and run myself and my family that has affected us for the rest of our lives . Now he was a low-life and he just beat his wife and kid the day before we went to court . So saying the term "low-life"is more a general term or meant in the a slang fashion . I've had so-called responsible people at the time of incident be nice and courteous , but afterwards trying to rectify the damages , become low-lifes . This day and age of political correctness has created more controversy than the issues themselves . Even the word "Political" correctness I think is improper . What does politics have to do with it ? I think some people just call it as they see it , just like the pecan , potato , tomato issue . And to put it in better perspective , I can become a low-life if I want too sometimes , :rotf: BEER30 Beer: I think it is a product of our times. No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions. Everyone wants to hide and say he did it!! I used to think an accident was an accident.....do not blame anyone.....it is what it is......but in the case of someone who is drunk and hurts someone else....I agree there should be accountability for that...and other actions just as serious. Everything you have said.....I agree...and fully understand what you are saying.. Just did not think it appropriate for the given occasion.......and as for you being a low-life......no do not believe that one......not with your sense of humor..nope you will have to work on it to get me to believe that one.....we can all get mad and do things under the right circumstance. I can, and have and might again under the right situation. I am going to shut up now.........this stuff has gotten out of hand. Way too much off the wall stuff for me.........I have always tried to look at things with a whole pocket full of common sense......I do not see much of that here the last couple of days........so I think it best I just shut up, and go tease orrin about his square tire or something. This has been a serious and tragic wake up for a lot of people.......they will all deal with it in their own way........I am simply too stubborn and at times full of nonsense to even consider one extreme over the other........like to stay in the common sense zone. All of you.....and this statement is not to Gene.....all of you read this stuff........calm down.....take it easy.......remember it is done...blame and hard feelings never work......they just make it worse....and as bikers we have an extra challenge.......one member has correctly noted.......it is us the biker the public views as the Low-Lifes......I can remember going into a cafe.......not so many years ago....and having most of them clear out...and I am not a hells angel, I am clean cut.you would never know I was a biker unless you see me on one..... Okay said I would shut up.......Take Care . to all......Be safe all of you.......I want to go find a fun subject...smile..enjoy life........I refuse to stay sad and dig a hole.....tis enough for me. Kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FozzyUSN Posted October 22, 2007 Share #21 Posted October 22, 2007 Signed it and also posted as a member of VentureRider.org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Posted October 22, 2007 Share #22 Posted October 22, 2007 I couldn't sign this in good faith. I agree there are plenty of people that are bad drivers. There are plenty of motorcycle riders that are bad drivers too. All accidents, especially where injuries or death is involved, should be evaluated based on the facts and charges filed accordingly and punishment decided by a jury. A blanket statement that says if you are involved in an accident where a motorcycle rider\passenger dies is prejudging. I have never witnessed a motorcycle accident happen but I have seen several near misses and some of those were the fault of the motorcycle rider. Anyone riding a motorcycle is at greater risk of being injured or being killed if involved in an accident simply due to the lack of protection surrounding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Posted October 22, 2007 Share #23 Posted October 22, 2007 I couldn't sign this in good faith. I agree there are plenty of people that are bad drivers. There are plenty of motorcycle riders that are bad drivers too. All accidents, especially where injuries or death is involved, should be evaluated based on the facts and charges filed accordingly and punishment decided by a jury. A blanket statement that says if you are involved in an accident where a motorcycle rider\passenger dies is prejudging. I have never witnessed a motorcycle accident happen but I have seen several near misses and some of those were the fault of the motorcycle rider. Anyone riding a motorcycle is at greater risk of being injured or being killed if involved in an accident simply due to the lack of protection surrounding them. What I was trying to say. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ky. Rider Posted October 22, 2007 Share #24 Posted October 22, 2007 Kit brought out some good points. We have laws in every state that deal with negligence which enables a court decision. We don't need a mandate that takes out the accident clause without it being investigated. Even thought we all ride motorcycles we also drive cars. None of us, no matter how careful we try to be, can guarantee we won't cause an accident that involves a motorcycle while we are driving our car. That doesn't make us a lowlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KitCarson Posted October 22, 2007 Share #25 Posted October 22, 2007 Folks, just to let you know, AMA is fighting for enforcement of laws when bikes are involved. Go to their web site and you will see articles about cagers getting off with a slap on the wrist for any kind of an accident involving a biker. Seems to me, most think bikers are the "Low Lifes" :( Hi you Two: Years ago, I used to ride with a fairly large club and I have always been clean cut. I wear decent clothes....a helmet, a nice jacket......most of us did in this club.....we were not hells angels, most of us in the military. We used to have from about five to maybe a dozen riders in our outings, and we would stop somewhere to eat. People would get up and leave.....or move to another table or to the other side of the cafe'. The public, the people just like you and I, with family, kids and all the things of life......were simply apprehensive of us. I gave that up mainly due to the fact we all went our separate ways, and the only way I found out about Ventureriders , I was doing a lot of searching about my clutch whine....there you were......so thought why not....time to maybe make some new friends. I see motorcycles everyday ripping down the city streets at 90 miles and hour, I saw one just last week doing the famous ride between the lanes trick. A lot of riders are not at all considerate of others. So the public looks at all this and they have a fear also. They fear us. I myself fear some riders I see......the make me want to go the other direction, avoid them, let me please get away from these idiots, I do not want to be involved in no accident because of some fool riding like a maniac. What I am getting at is you have a very valid point that I do not think a lot of us really stop and think about. The public is very apprehensive of bikers. So when they see the ones who ride like fools......that is all they remember. Just as in life, or in any job......you can do the right thing for 10 years...do it all right.....be perfect......then one day you make a mistake, and people tend to remember that mistake.....they do not remember the good. I am using that to explain how the public views bikers. Just a few can cause and do cause people in power, whom vote on laws in regards to motorcycles to consider us all Low-Life bikers.....what do we care about them....they are the problem..we need to get rid of those people. I noticed something Saturday.......Sandy and I went for a ride....first we were going to ride to the Congaree Swamp Park and walk the boardwalk, but the football game , which I forgot all about turned us around. So we went all the way back and around Lake Murray. We were in full dress, helmets....gloves.....jacket(no chaps-still too hot for that just yet) and farmers working in the fields waved to us. People in the area whom live there some of them waved. They saw us as responsible people, they did not fear us. I like louder pipes than factory stock.....so I suppose I contribute to the dislike of bikers also. Just recently (my daughter goes to college in Charleston, South Carolina) bikes have been banned from parking in some of the parking garages. The public officials have made some negative statements about bikers in Charleston. This is due to bikers not neccasarily riding as fools.....but no helmets........extremely loud pipes......running up and down the city streets........yes the public fears us and does consider us Low Life Bikers. This is not addressed at you.......I am just saying Hi to both of you......and putting something out there for folks on this site to consider. Respectfully Kit No when my roadhouse pipes get here......I will eagerly put them on.....to me that is part of the joy of riding....to listen to the motor and those pipes especially in the downshift.........the public will just have to put up with me on that one........but I will be courteous......and present a good image. So i am not accusing anyone.....please take this for what it is.......all of you please do not get into an extreme issue with this........I am simply telling you why the lawmakers view us as they do. I cannot contain myself from coming back and bringing up this very big point. It seems in our particular area, the thing to do is make Tavern runs. For those of you who do not know what these are.......large groups of bikers.....as many as 20 to 100 gather at local beer joints and drink away the afternoon.....the public sees this every weekend.......think they do not notice........do not be fooled......what do you think people think when they see this all the time? I like a drink now and then myself......but at home...when the day is done.....never ever on a bike....someone gives me one.....I will take it......will not drink it......will just sit it down in a moment or two.....that stuff does not mix with bikes. Kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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