barend Posted September 14, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 14, 2009 Let me try this again; I have hot, as in extreme, air coming of the engine. I pulled the exhaust and found a crack in the downtube and collector as well as broken welds on the collectors mounting bracket. I fixed those, reassembled, thought I had it fixed and suddenly there was that wisp of hot air again. Took it apart again found a pinhole in the downtube they missed when welding and reinstalled with new crushwashers. The other gaskets are in good condition! Went to Rome GA, all was well for the first three hours!! during the last half hour both Brenda and I could feel the heat coming up, by the time we got to Fudruckers things were back to normal. On the way back we had no problem going down to Atlanta but halfway between Atlanta and Greenville, it got bad enough that I had to put my legs on the pegs to get some relief. I locked the throttle for a bit and rested my elbow on Brenda's knee and you could feel the wave of hot air rushing up and out between my thigh and her shin. So in short: -engine temp is consistently showing midway in the green. -weather /driving speed is not a factor, -I have a heat problem that comes and goes. I know RandyA says heat is no problem with shorts on, Randy come ride my bike and make that claim. Folks, I would love to hear some options, why would this not be consistent? If it is exhaust should it not be consitently hot? Where might this be coming from if not the exhaust? How do you trace something that is intermittent and burried under all kinds of plastic? I took the darn pipes of twice now for this and I'm gonna have to find the source of this dadburn bun burner, cause it ain't no fun. This is war!!! I know I could argue winter is coming and I currently have a build in forced air heater, so why complain, but that is hardly the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvrT Posted September 14, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 14, 2009 could it be a rush of air when the fan comes on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted September 14, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 14, 2009 I know RandyA says heat is no problem with shorts on, Randy come ride my bike and make that claim. Would you believe we came down 178 to the Cherokee Foothills Scenic Highway 11 Saturday near you? We ended up going back up on the mountain to see some waterfalls and to Brevard, NC. We had to go to Hendersonville to get a motel room as there was a music festival in Brevard and everything was booked up. I would have loved to have met up with you and we could have swapped rides for a while. I wish I could give you some good suggestions, as I am sure it is aggravating. The only time I have ever noticed much heat on my 83 is when it is hot and in congested traffic and I can feel the fan turn on occasionally. RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barend Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted September 14, 2009 Rick, I would say: "No", I can hear the fan kick in when I am stopped or in slow moving traffic, but do not (necessarily) feel the rush of hot air because it gets expelled in front of the lowers. The airflow I am referring to is definitely coming through the opening in the sidepanels. I also find it doubtfull that the fan would come on doing a steady 80mph on the interstate and the temp guage rock solid at just above horizontal and a 'mere' 85 degrees outside. Randy, you would've been about half an hour from the house, but we were in Rome at that time. Maybe another time! Given the temps I am feeling, I am convinced it has to be exhaust, but to verify that or determine where it is coming from would save me a lot of aggrevation when I pull these #%&* pipes back off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barend Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Somebody shoot me a close up pic of the alignment between the rear cylinder exhaust flange and the down tube?? Is it possible that, as much fun as they are to get into the collector, the downtube shifted during operation and caused the gasket to not seal anymore???? Edited September 14, 2009 by barend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyRich Posted September 14, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 14, 2009 I don't know if the 83's have it but Steved's 91 has a deflector that goes over the valve cover. He removed it and found his legs getting cooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barend Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted September 15, 2009 Thanks Buddy, I have both the heavy plastic heat shield over the valve cover as well as the metal shield behind the down tubes. the search goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecb Posted September 15, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 15, 2009 Get a 2nd Gen....?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barend Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted September 15, 2009 What??!! And have to start all over getting my sidecar mounts (which I still don't have)?? Nice try though, but I think I prefer the frame mounted fairing, so maybe: a Vision?, or a BMW? :rotfl: Way down in the future!!:mo money: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvrT Posted September 15, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 15, 2009 ok so if you figgure it might be an exhaust leak, wouldn't you be able to hear it? very puzzling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Giant Posted September 15, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 15, 2009 I'm going to go with the theory that either your thermostat is sticking or your cooling system needs a good flush. Does your temp guage always stay above the half way mark or does it come down to the normal mark and fluctuate higher? Where does it sit at highway speed? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barend Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted September 15, 2009 When this heat issue first started I did not hear a difference in exhaust sound, I did find a crack in the downtube, sound levels did not change with that fixed. I would say that when i load the engine up (i.e. to high a gear for speed) It does seem to sound more throaty. How much of that would be related to a leak or to an overloaded engine I do not know. I would agree that it would seem you should be able to hear a leaking exhaust, but than I did have that crack in the downtube .... The engine temp gauge runs about a needle width above horizontal under most conditions. Slow traffic and stop in town riding will run it up towards the red and the fan does kick in. After leaving town the temp gauge will return to it's normal position. The gauge also climbs up from "0" during warm up. I drained and replaced the coolant with engine ice this past spring. The reservoir is also full. I considered the thermostat being bad, but would the engine temp gauge not fluctuate while driving? I've considered the pump being intermitent, but that would raise the same question, wouldn't it? Perhaps I should also note that the engine does not smell like it is overheating. I can't tell if maybe I screwed up when putting the down tube back in the collector (my head's too big), so I'm going to take it all apart again (have to install the new regulator anyway) to see what I can see. Maybe I get lucky. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Giant Posted September 15, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 15, 2009 Just from my own experience with mine, regadless of outside temperature and how hard I'm riding the needle sits at the mark about 1/4 up from the bottom of the gauge where there is a break in the green band. When I have to run in stop and go traffic then it will run up about halfway or higher at which point there is a noticable difference in the heat coming up from the engine. That is why I'm thinking thermostat. Again, just my Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvrT Posted September 15, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 15, 2009 Just from my own experience with mine, regadless of outside temperature and how hard I'm riding the needle sits at the mark about 1/4 up from the bottom of the gauge where there is a break in the green band. When I have to run in stop and go traffic then it will run up about halfway or higher at which point there is a noticable difference in the heat coming up from the engine. That is why I'm thinking thermostat. Again, just my Paul Both my '85 and my '87 temp gauges ran close to the red most of the time and according to what I've read about this...it's quite normal so if someone's gauge is reading in the middle or, like your's, maybe the gauge is whacky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barend Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted October 3, 2009 Ok, It's been a long day, I am tired and getting frustrated, so before I do something I regret ...... I bought an inspection mirror to see what I could see, which is about nothing! went ahead and dropped the exhaust again and because I had a hard time getting the down tubes back in the collector I figured I'd check on new gaskets for that, just in case. For whatever reason, I chose to bring the collector along to the dealer, and ask them their opinion on the gaskets. As the non-mechanic they looked alright but the mechanic who helped me didn't take long to point out that the gaskets should come all the way to the top of the sleeve. So, of to the parts counter to bite the bullet. Imagine my surprise, $15 each for the ones on the intake side, they only had two though. Got those in and rode the bike, may be onto something here, so I went to order the rest. They had the ones for the pipes; $10.00each, left in stock and when I picked up the other two they discounted them to $22. As far as prices I got lucky, $180 worth of gaskets for half price. Now the irritating part, putting it back! Is there a preferred way? I am fighting this thing! If I install the downtubes in the collector i can't get the front pipes in; if I install the front pipes in the collector, I need to take the downpipes (and manifold?) loose and try to fight them sum'birches in. It would be nice to get all this back together, while remaining sane, unhurt and no damage to the bike, least of all my new gaskets. It'd be even better if that solves my excessive heat problem. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hope the weather allows for some riding tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted October 3, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 3, 2009 Barend, I'm here to tell you that the exhaust collector is the biggest PITA on the 1st gens. It took me 2 days of screwing around with the one on my '89 before I finally got it to fit well enough. I can't tell you any secret as it was all about fiddling around with it to access the bolts to tighten. I wish I had something better to tell you, but I most definitely feel your pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted October 3, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 3, 2009 Barend, I'm here to tell you that the exhaust collector is the biggest PITA on the 1st gens. It took me 2 days of screwing around with the one on my '89 before I finally got it to fit well enough. I can't tell you any secret as it was all about fiddling around with it to access the bolts to tighten. I wish I had something better to tell you, but I most definitely feel your pain. Has anyone ever replaced the collector with straight tubes and a crossover?? I know about the aftermarket collector, but it'll give you a nose bleed just looking at the price... Does the 2ndGen have a collector?? Or crossover?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted October 3, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 3, 2009 I would think that it could be done fairly easily if somebody was good with bending tubing and etc. The second gen does not have a collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camos Posted October 4, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 4, 2009 Has anyone ever replaced the collector with straight tubes and a crossover?? I know about the aftermarket collector, but it'll give you a nose bleed just looking at the price... Does the 2ndGen have a collector?? Or crossover?? They aren't straight but is [ame=http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=41374]this[/ame] what you are thinking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted October 4, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 4, 2009 we need to come up with something better and cheaper , i am thinking of something like the 2nd gens . i have a JD-2 bender and have made headers for cars before . if somebody can come up with a good and eazy design i will try to make it . if we make the pipe coming out the back longer and bend it dif. we could use slip ons . anybody know the ID and OD of the intake and the out take of the pipes ? Squid , you have had both bikes what do you think ? Thom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barend Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #21 Posted October 4, 2009 Took a deep breath and took my time yesterday a.m. After a lot of back and forth (fit this, thighten that, loosen that, refit, re-tighten, loosen again, fit better, tighten better, ... well, you get the picture) I got everything back together. Actually went relatively easy, couple of times it just seemed to fall in place unexpected . The big question of course is, "did it fix my problem:icon_smile_question" Let's say that I am cautiously optimistic. Last time I thought I had it fixed I rode close to 150 miles before I detected excess heat and so far I only have 120 miles, but, unless I post on this thread again, this one's done. Thanks to all who have offered suggestions and/or advise, next is a front tire and the sidecar, then on to the carbs (I think she's running rich -soot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted October 4, 2009 Share #22 Posted October 4, 2009 They aren't straight but is this what you are thinking about? Well... Mark's is the aftermarket collector that has gone over the hill on pricing.. What I was thinking about is to just mimic the collector with straight tubing between the front headers and the mufflers, with the rear header joined in somewhere along the middle. More of a 2 into 1 connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted October 4, 2009 Share #23 Posted October 4, 2009 Jack , that is what i am thinking , i started a new thread on this , i think if enough of us can get together , we can figger out something Thom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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