Melted bottom of saddlebag, how the heck.

Ok So I picked up a 99 RSV on the cheap. It only has 11,000 miles on it. The guy before me put some slip ons on. They appear to be the same distance from the bag on each side. It had possibly been sitting a while. When I got it, it ran ok. I had to let it sit for a month or two.

I went to crank it, I get some vapor lock, but it goes away. ran really rough for the 45 miles or so half way here and really nice and smooth the other 45.

Parked in garage, rode a week later, ran smooth as silk, parked, ....

Went to go polish it and noticed the underside of the bag had been heated a good bit. Pulled plugs, front right is getting too hot.

Any ideas as to what could cause one cylinder to get too hot? Hot enough to cause the slipon to melt the bag? Do you think it was just that one section where it ran like garbage from the old fuel?

Also will add that the Plugs pulled were DPR 8ea-9's (a cooler plug) and not DPR 7ea-9's

Any advice would be great. I don't want to just start rebuilding carbs if it's not necessary.

Joe

No idea as to why one cylinder is hotter than the other, but you may be right about the stale gas! I would suggest that you put a whole can of Seafoam into a full tank of fresh gas and ride it like you stole it first, then give it a set of the proper plugs as well as doing a sync on the carbs. If the sync is way off that might explain why one cylinder is running hotter.

Also I would suggest checking for any type of exhaust leak that might have caused the bottoms of the bags to melt. There might be an issue with the mounting of the aftermarket exhaust.

Also, you didn't accidentally leave the choke on?? That will cause the bike to run rich and hot...

No idea as to why one cylinder is hotter than the other, but you may be right about the stale gas! I would suggest that you put a whole can of Seafoam into a full tank of fresh gas and ride it like you stole it first, then give it a set of the proper plugs as well as doing a sync on the carbs. If the sync is way off that might explain why one cylinder is running hotter.

 

Also I would suggest checking for any type of exhaust leak that might have caused the bottoms of the bags to melt. There might be an issue with the mounting of the aftermarket exhaust.

 

Also, you didn't accidentally leave the choke on?? That will cause the bike to run rich and hot...

No the choke wasn't left on. though for those first 40 miles or so, I HAD to keep it on more fuel to even keep it running when attempting to idle. I've ran a full tank of other gas and topped it off again with some ethanol free on the way home. I may do what you are suggesting, with the proper plugs off the rip, though it may run even hotter, I'll have to pull over now and then and look. Then in for a sync. It's probably the factory setting. LMAO.

Crap i just twisted off a seat stud....

Joe

No idea as to why one cylinder is hotter than the other, but you may be right about the stale gas! I would suggest that you put a whole can of Seafoam into a full tank of fresh gas and ride it like you stole it first, then give it a set of the proper plugs as well as doing a sync on the carbs. If the sync is way off that might explain why one cylinder is running hotter.

 

Also I would suggest checking for any type of exhaust leak that might have caused the bottoms of the bags to melt. There might be an issue with the mounting of the aftermarket exhaust.

 

Also, you didn't accidentally leave the choke on?? That will cause the bike to run rich and hot...

Put it back together to check for exhaust leak and got NOTHING. not a single jet of air.

Good stuff.

Still popping a bit though. I may try the seafoam trick.

Carbs out of sync can cause popping in the exhaust

Yeah I think I'll be getting a sync setup this next month.

Carbs out of sync can cause popping in the exhaust

When a cylinder is running hotter than her sisters you have a lean issue!

That is to say you have more air in the combustion cycles than the sisters.

Choke creates a rich combustion, therefore a cooler set of cycles.

To understand what is going on you need to consider the stage at which the combustion temperature on the effected cylinder is running hotter?

Carbs will vary in syncing depending on who and what type of syncing tool is used.... So the good news here is that you say it runs smooth after warmed up and at cruise; that is where the sync counts, the rest is jet and vacuum actuated or slide condition.

If one sister is too hot at idle (because for some reason is where so many tune and judge from)??? Then you may have a partially clogged pilot jet? Or missing the mixing or set crew or, it is incorrectly adjusted?

Because the bike has sat for a long period you really should check compression, then puts with the carbs and tunen;)

Patch

Ride it out to Oberlin, OH for Freebird's Maintenance day next month. We'll get you synced up!

That's a bit strange. Are you absolutely sure that it wasn't already that way when you got it? I've owned Royal Star Ventures since 1999 and have looked and worked on many of them at my Maintenance Day and I've never seen a saddlebag partially melted.

When a cylinder is running hotter than her sisters you have a lean issue!

That is to say you have more air in the combustion cycles than the sisters.

Choke creates a rich combustion, therefore a cooler set of cycles.

 

To understand what is going on you need to consider the stage at which the combustion temperature on the effected cylinder is running hotter?

Carbs will vary in syncing depending on who and what type of syncing tool is used.... So the good news here is that you say it runs smooth after warmed up and at cruise; that is where the sync counts, the rest is jet and vacuum actuated or slide condition.

 

If one sister is too hot at idle (because for some reason is where so many tune and judge from)??? Then you may have a partially clogged pilot jet? Or missing the mixing or set crew or, it is incorrectly adjusted?

 

Because the bike has sat for a long period you really should check compression, then puts with the carbs and tunen;)

Patch

This is odd,,, another one of those mysteries of mysteries,, as strange is this is gonna sound, I find myself once again in alignment with Patch:scared:. IMHO, there is a very chance that you have a partially plugged mainjet/main jet system and possibly the same on the low speed side. This is what I would do. I would start the bike cold. Either take a laser thermometer (cheap and best way to do this) or spit check (works great - have used this method for years) and while the bike wayrms up off idle and NOT touching the throttle so the mains remain closed, check header tempts as the scoot warms up. If all the headers come up to tempt evenly, thank your lucky stars that the low speed system is open and operating/functioning properly cause there is a good chance you wont eventually have to clean the carbs by removing them. Now ride the bike or rev the bike (riding is better cause you can open the mains by riding it and keep a load on the engine while maintaining off idle revs) for a few miles. Run a short distance down a highway at 70 mph - sayyyyy 4 miles, pull over and reshoot your headers.. If you have a partially plugged main (lean condition) you will noticed a difference in header tempts right away - you gotta quick on the laser when you stop = dont give the headers a chance to cool. Ever notice on an inline scoot where some of the headers are discolored and some are not? While more common on custom bikes, this malady is generally due to improper tune and that improper tune involved the bike not being jetted properly = a little "fatter" in inboard pots than on out side pots. On custom V-Twins it's very common for a builder to run fat on the rear jug to keep this from happening.

If it were mine and I found out that what I am talking about is the culprit in this case I would pull the carb diaphram/slide assembly and check it condition/activation. All looking good there, I would find out what size main jets I was dealing with and I would pickup a set of jet cleaners (similar to torch tip cleaners) and one new main jet of the size in the bike. I would then take the carb cleaners and work thru them to find the one that fit the size of a new main jet. Even if I had to alter one carb cleaner in the set to fit the new jet perfectly = I would. Next I would run the cleaner thru the emulsion tube where the metering rod on the slide enters the main jet cavity. I would carefully feel my way thru the emulsion tube and into the main jet and clean it that way without having to remove the carb = make sense to anyone?

After this I would spray carb cleaner into the emulsion tube, let it sit for second and redo a few times in an attempt to open any emulsion tube cross holes that may be plugged..

Now I would button er back up and redo a highway check with my lazer temp gun and see if it fattened back up..

That's a bit strange. Are you absolutely sure that it wasn't already that way when you got it? I've owned Royal Star Ventures since 1999 and have looked and worked on many of them at my Maintenance Day and I've never seen a saddlebag partially melted.

No I'm not 10000% sure. I'm hoping it was prior and somehow, I missed it, but I dont think so.

This is odd,,, another one of those mysteries of mysteries,, as strange is this is gonna sound, I find myself once again in alignment with Patch:scared:

Well GrassHopper;)

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Well, duh! Raise the bag on that side.

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My 2001 had the bottom of the right side saddle bag melted when I bought it. No idea at all what caused it. I found it when I put new tires on it. I didn’t worry too much about it. But when I got home from Sturgis last year, I noticed the whole bottom of the right saddle bag was GONE!!!! But stranger yet, nothing I keep in that bag was missing!!!

i found one on eBay the same color, lucky.

My 2001 had the bottom of the right side saddle bag melted when I bought it. No idea at all what caused it. I found it when I put new tires on it. I didn’t worry too much about it. But when I got home from Sturgis last year, I noticed the whole bottom of the right saddle bag was GONE!!!! But stranger yet, nothing I keep in that bag was missing!!!

i found one on eBay the same color, lucky.

Ever figure out the cause? Did you just add some extra spacers?

Joe

I broke off one of the seat studs before but there is a fix for it which has held up nicely and is probably stronger than the original one. I think I got the info from Rick Butler but...from memory....

1) Take out some of the staples from under the front of the seat so you can peel back the cover to expose the top of the bolt. Move foam padding out of the way

2) Drill out the top of the old stud with a bit that will cut the head off but not make the seat hole any larger. Take your time and every once in a while let the bolt cool down before continuing. Too much heat will melt the seat pan around the stud. You can start with small drill bits and work up to the right size until the stud comes out. The hole in the seat pan is threaded so try not to damage the threads. Use a tap if you have to repair the threads

3) Get a stainless metric bolt that matches the nut threads. You can measure the length of the bolt that isn't broken and add a couple mm for the proper length. You can dry fit the seat in place to make sure the length of the new bolt is correct

4) Put the new bolt thru the hole from the inside of the seat and JB weld or epoxy the head of the bolt to the inside of the seat pan. Wait until it sets

5) Put foam back in place and pull the seat cover back in place. Staple the seat cover back in place (remember that you only want the staple to go into the seat pan, not thru it so keep them short. I took my seat to an upholstery shop and they stapled it for me (was only a few staples so no charge)

I had gotten this info from Rick Butler before on how he repairs studs when he rebuilds seats :

"the broken bolt is not a bolt but a threaded stud that is part of a larger base that is molded into the seat pan. My solution when I have the seat pan off is to drill it carefully and tread it for 6mm X 1.0 pitch bolt that I screw in from the back side. But drilling it, you have to go slow as to not build up too much heat as it will heat up the plastic seat pan and the stud will break loose from the molding.

Going from smaller to larger drill bits always works out well. Use a metric taps to "thread" the hole for the bolt"

Good as new !

That's a bit strange. Are you absolutely sure that it wasn't already that way when you got it? I've owned Royal Star Ventures since 1999 and have looked and worked on many of them at my Maintenance Day and I've never seen a saddlebag partially melted.

When I picked up my first '83 Venture it came with a melted bottom of the right bag. The cause? A dragging rear brake pad. The previous owner had replaced the caliper, but when it ran down the road the rear brake locked up tighter than a frogs a$$..again.. That's when I learned about plugged expansion valves and the the need to bleed the brakes regularly.. I replaced the bag, and I think I still have the old one up in the rafters somewhere?? Maybe I'll see if I can find it and take a pic...

Back to the subject at hand... I'm in the 'lean' camp. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is a leak in the manifold under the #4 carb.. It might be nothing more than a loose clamp??

When I picked up my first '83 Venture it came with a melted bottom of the right bag. The cause? A dragging rear brake pad. The previous owner had replaced the caliper, but when it ran down the road the rear brake locked up tighter than a frogs a$$..again.. That's when I learned about plugged expansion valves and the the need to bleed the brakes regularly.. I replaced the bag, and I think I still have the old one up in the rafters somewhere?? Maybe I'll see if I can find it and take a pic...

 

Back to the subject at hand... I'm in the 'lean' camp. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is a leak in the manifold under the #4 carb.. It might be nothing more than a loose clamp??

See now that would make sense to me. You'd think I'd have felt the brake being locked up (and possibly heard it). but sadly the heat pattern is definitely the entire length of the bag, I will check the manifold. Thanks!

Ever figure out the cause? Did you just add some extra spacers?

 

Joe

I think my carbs were so far out of whack, that my valves aren't seating correctly. So first thing is getting the carbs done and riding the hell out of it.

I think my carbs were so far out of whack, that my valves aren't seating correctly. So first thing is getting the carbs done and riding the hell out of it.

You can pull the carbs for maintenance but to do so without a compression test is the same as asking why a dog chases its tail!

Note the jet numbers as well on a slip and keep it with your manual.

Before reinstalling the carbs share your pressure results.

Carbs off is the best time to test compression.

You can pull the carbs for maintenance but to do so without a compression test is the same as asking why a dog chases its tail!

 

Note the jet numbers as well on a slip and keep it with your manual.

 

 

 

Before reinstalling the carbs share your pressure results.

 

Carbs off is the best time to test compression.

I've already done all that and have come to the conclusion that there was so much carbon in the rear cylinders that it is not allowing the valves to set. So I'm getting the carburetors done and going to burn the hell out of it

I've already done all that and have come to the conclusion that there was so much carbon in the rear cylinders that it is not allowing the valves to set. So I'm getting the carburetors done and going to burn the hell out of it

Sorry doesn't add up!

Only 11000 miles, slip on's likely suggests according to marketing gurus fatter jets all around, that can lead to 4 high carbon jugs, so why only 2?

I assume your front jugs are standard readings so not low, not high?

Because you mentioned valves" not seating" then I assume your rear jugs are low from carbon buildup, the opposite to what most would expect to conclude and all withing 11000 miles?

No sir this don't add correctly!

Your bike, your opinion, your money, I hope it all works out for you.

Patch

Sorry doesn't add up!

Only 11000 miles, slip on's likely suggests according to marketing gurus fatter jets all around, that can lead to 4 high carbon jugs, so why only 2?

I assume your front jugs are standard readings so not low, not high?

Because you mentioned valves" not seating" then I assume your rear jugs are low from carbon buildup, the opposite to what most would expect to conclude and all withing 11000 miles?

 

No sir this don't add correctly!

 

Your bike, your opinion, your money, I hope it all works out for you.

Patch

The carbs were actually never gone into, in 20 years of the bike. The guy who sold it to me, it would seem, basically cleaned them enough to get it started. (spray can). and then lied all the way to the bank.

I'm ordering a fresh set from The Diamondcut guy and going to put those on.

Correct. the rear cylinders had a lot of carbon buildup. Specifically the left rear. Changing plugs and carbs and going to see how it performs from there. Riding like a scalded dog to see if I can clean them out some, then another compression test.

also going to point out there was a good bit of fuel in the oil, so I'm thinking/hoping/praying thatthe cylinder that was causing the hot pipe wasn't lubricated correctly. Guess we'll see.

It had great compression btw.