BlueSky Posted December 7, 2015 Share #26 Posted December 7, 2015 The Ford "Triton" V8s are unique in my experience in that the plug is on the other side of the heads. They are on the intake manifold side. I assume this created some challenges for Ford engineers and they didn't do a perfect job on the 2V or 3V heads. If you are aware of the extra torque requirements of the 2V heads because there are only 4 threads, it isn't a problem. Except they are hard to get to and it takes a good while to change them for the inexperienced. Luckily they only have to be replaced every 100k miles. I replaced the plugs myself on my 2002 5.4L V8. It took a while but I was successful with no issues. The 3V heads have lots more threads, but have those long barrels that corrode and makes the plug tight. Ford has revised the replacement schedule to every 60K miles instead of 100K for that reason. But, if you know what to do as far as the latest recommended procedure, it is possible to replace the plugs without breaking them. And putting anti-sieze on the barrels should help the next time they have to be replaced. The problem was supposedly fixed in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickardracing Posted December 7, 2015 Share #27 Posted December 7, 2015 I solved quality issues by not buying from the domestic 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted December 8, 2015 Share #28 Posted December 8, 2015 I solved quality issues by not buying from the domestic 3. That doesn't always work. The first 3 foreign vehicles I bought (new) had reliability and/or design and/or quality issues. I won't bore you with the long list of issues. Only kept them 18 months because of those issues. More recently I bought 4 more for various family members that have been very reliable so far. The only unreliable domestic vehicles I remember were GM vehicles I bought in the last 20 years. Short engine life, blown head gaskets Okay, the 3.8L 95 Mustang I bought for son #1 did blow a head gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickardracing Posted December 8, 2015 Share #29 Posted December 8, 2015 That doesn't always work. The first 3 foreign vehicles I bought (new) had reliability and/or design and/or quality issues. I won't bore you with the long list of issues. Only kept them 18 months because of those issues. More recently I bought 4 more for various family members that have been very reliable so far. The only unreliable domestic vehicles I remember were GM vehicles I bought in the last 20 years. Short engine life, blown head gaskets Okay, the 3.8L 95 Mustang I bought for son #1 did blow a head gasket. I never had any luck with GM. I owned a lot of those. My last new Ford was a 94 Ranger. POS!! Dealer had it more than me. Dumped it after 2 1/2 years. Bought a 1996 Dodge Ram Indy 500 (Limited prouction). I did not hardly drive that, sold it after 4 years with just over 14,000 miles on it. Bought a new 97 Dodge Intrepid................6 dealer installed water pumps at $465 each.....very bad design. Had other issues. So after getting fed up with the former Big 3.....I bought a 2002 Nissan Xterra SCSE Supercharged (another limited production), put 260,000 miles on it. Loved it. Traded it in on a Honda CRV, loved that other than it sucked bigtime in the snow. Had that 2 years, no issues other than being too light and crappy traction in the snow as I said. Traded that in on a 2015 Kia Sorento. Actually took delivery of the first 2015 in Michigan and Feldman Kia in Novi worked it out with the factory to let us special order it with what we wanted for color and options. This one is actually one of one. The color was not offered with the option package combo we wanted, hence the special order. No issues with that other than the deer my wife assassinated with it last month. I currently drive a 2007 Toyota 4Runner. I just turned 190,000 miles on that. The onlything I have had to do other than brakes all the way around (at 135,000 miles!) is front wheel bearings. So I have been VERY satisfied with my imports that were built over here. I won't even consider the domestic 3 anymore and I do work in the auto industry. My good experience could change with the next one, but I doubt it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted December 9, 2015 Share #30 Posted December 9, 2015 I have had god luck with Fords and MOPAR. Not a big GM fan and it goes back when I first started driving. I have owned a few, and it seems more issues with them than my others. Maybe just luck of draw or they just didnt like me. LOL Had a Buick Regal Turbo Coupe like about a 78-80. Turbo ate the bearings up, killed the seal and with direct oiling to the turbo bearings, well the turbo sucked the oil up pushed it into the cylinder and hydro locked the motor. Kit/nightrider vintage Firebird. Had like 3 or 4 rear hatch electric pull down motors replaced, trans seal blew out with couple thousand miles on it. Maybe nit picking but for some reason I remember the problems on the GM's and only a couple on all the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted May 15, 2016 Share #31 Posted May 15, 2016 OK so I'm looking at Navigators and Expeditions. One of the Navigators I was looking at had a 5.4, but it said in description "good" 5.4 ingintech or something like that. Is that an OK motor? I think it was like a 2003. Looked pretty clean and taken care of. I probably could suffer thru the plug thing, but you know if you dont have to mess with something that has a 80% chance of mucking up.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV1100SE Posted May 15, 2016 Author Share #32 Posted May 15, 2016 I'd say if it has a Triton motor, you can check the plugs and if they are Motorcraft (Ford) change them out and you'll be fine. I would consider the plugs to be a minor consideration in the overall condition of the vehicle. Simple to change the plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeWa Posted May 15, 2016 Share #33 Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) Do not remove these plugs when the engine is hot or even warm. or they could break off as shown in the photos...For the plugs that are broken off in the heads apply a little chopped up dry ice to the inside of the plug cavity. Then remove the plug cavity with a wedged in common screw driver. Mike Ben there Done that Edited May 15, 2016 by MikeWa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted May 16, 2016 Share #34 Posted May 16, 2016 I believe the engine in the 2003 Nav has double overhead cams and is an entirely different engine from the SOHC Triton engines. It therefore does not have the plug replacement issues that the SOHC engines have. Buy the heck out of it if you want it. I had a 4.6 DOHC engine in my 95 Mark VIII Lincoln and it was a great engine. Loved that car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted May 16, 2016 Share #35 Posted May 16, 2016 Thanks Sort of got a couple things in my head. Also have a 03 I think Exped with a 4.6 and 92k. Price sounds good @ like $2500, but it says has engine knock. So I'm thinking more than likely a rod. So some KBB research shows in good shape is a 4200 car, a long block rebuilt is about 3000. So me thinks he is going to have to get off the 2500 for it to be worth while to me. I hate to tell him but that is about a $1000 car. He will probably want to shoot me if I offer him that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbig1 Posted May 16, 2016 Share #36 Posted May 16, 2016 the 5.4 had cam fasers problems would get real loud and expensive. had a 05 f150 bearings went out of diff at 50.000 miles. brake calipers locked up took apart every one had a broken cup. the 4-4 shift went bad and had to replace all components. never buy another one...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comingbackdown Posted May 16, 2016 Share #37 Posted May 16, 2016 I've seen so much of this it isn't funny. I work in a parts store, so I see a lot of it. The reaction upon hearing they have the option of buying a special tool or removing the head is usually slightly muted rage. Most guys have this happen once and dump the Motorcraft plugs, usually without incident. From what I've seen from our delivery fleet, GM isn't any better off in terms of highly stupid engineering. Then you have Fiat/Chrysler who have made a few less than stellar decisions in recent years. There's a reason I like older used vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted May 16, 2016 Share #38 Posted May 16, 2016 The 2003 4.6 Triton 2 valve SOHC engine usually goes and goes. It's one of the most reliable engines ever built. So, a rod knock at 92k is unusual. The 2 valve engines will blow out their plugs if they aren't tightened properly. The heads only have about 4 threads to hold the plugs. The original Ford spec is 8 ft lbs of torque on the plugs. Now the recommendation is 28 ft lbs. At 28 they won't blow out. I'm surprised you can buy a rebuilt long block for $3k. If it is indeed a rod knock, $1k is about right for the vehicle. Take another look at that Navigator!! The 3 valves per cylinder 5.4 engines 2004 to 2008 had the plugs that break when they are removed and some later model 4.6 engines had the same 3 valve heads with the breaking plugs. The 3V engines are also the ones with the cam phasor issues. The 4.6 and 5.4 97 to 03 are 2V engines that didn't have the variable valve timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videoarizona Posted May 16, 2016 Share #39 Posted May 16, 2016 Interesting about those plugs.....I would not be a happy camper. Glad you were able to get them out! Have had Ford/ Mercury...no more. Not reliable. Dodges and Chryslers...constantly replaced water pumps, alternators, brake rotors, etc... And now my first GMC, Yukon XL. After 11 years and 165k miles.... I'm sold on GMC. Other than replacing belts and hoses at 100k, everything else is original. Still have good brakes, alternator, power steering, water pump. Replaced daytime lights with LEDs..originals burned out all the time. Rest of bulbs still good. Oil changes and tires... That's it. And my Yukon XL still gets 19/20mpg on the road and loves pulling the 2.5ton sailboat. Plus... I've had two dealers and both have been excellent fit the normal services I've required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV1100SE Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share #40 Posted May 16, 2016 The design of the head and spark plugs probably seemed like a good idea at the time. Mind you, Ford still sells the two piece design on the plugs. Definitely change them out to another brand that is a one piece design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted May 16, 2016 Share #41 Posted May 16, 2016 I have a 2004 Ford F150. Bought it 2 years ago when it had 106k on the clock. 5.4 Triton engine... noisy thing. Cam Phasers/actuators and fuel injectors I believe. Had the plugs changed then and 2 broke. They only need changing about every 100k. Doesn't seem to be that big of a deal if you have someone that knows how to do it. Can get a bit expensive comparatively if more than a couple break. Labor adds up... I put 30k on her since. She has been a very dependable truck. Reminds me, I believe it's time for the oil change this weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted May 17, 2016 Share #42 Posted May 17, 2016 Ford has revised the recommended plug change interval on the 2004 thru 2008 5.4 3 valve engines from 100k miles to 60k miles. When changing them the first time, coat the barrels of the plugs with anti-seize and you probably won't have the problem next time. And the recommendation on the F150 forums is to stick with motorcraft plugs. Seems these engines run better with motorcraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted May 17, 2016 Share #43 Posted May 17, 2016 The more I read up on the issue with the motor in question, if I find one at rite price I dont think it would sway me away. Seems a couple tanks of Techron or seafoam then a slight warm of the engine, they say room temperature and you dont have any troubles. I do my own work so only person I have to pay is me. The guy aint got back to me yet so I dont know what to think on that deal. The Navigators a really nice as they are usually optioned out nicer than a high end Expedition. Also I think the Navigator is air bag in back, dont know about Expedition. May depend on option level. I think real springs would be way to go on age of truck I'm looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted May 17, 2016 Share #44 Posted May 17, 2016 I repeat myself. The 2003 4.6 engine is a 2 valve per cylinder engine and the only issue with the plugs is that if you don't torque them properly they may blow out. They are hard to get to but changing them is not a problem. They do not have the broken plug issue that the 2004 thru 2008 5.4 3 valve per cylinder heads have or the cam phasor problems that the 3 valve engines have. The 2003 Navigator 4 valve per cylinder engine has no issues with plug changing. They are easy and uneventful to change out. The only fuel injector cleaner approved by Ford is Chevron techron. I've read on the F150 forum that seafoam is harmful to the cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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