Am I being a whiner???

[shmily]

Don't get me wrong; I absolutely love my Venture. It's just that every year, ten of my military buddies and I take off for a four to five day ride that usually includes highway riding as well as days on the twisties. We ride a variety of scoots and I can tell you without a doubt that the Venture is king on the highway days.

 

However, it's a different story when we're on the twisties. Frankly, on those days I have trouble keeping up. I'm exhausted at the end of days of white knuckle riding. I've read books, watched videos and taken advanced rider courses to be a better rider. Alas, not much has changed and I'm no longer convinced that the problem is with me. I love my '07 Royal Star in every condition except the twisties in which case I'm growing to dislike it a lot.

 

I've test ridden a BMW 1600 GTL and I've fallen in love. It feels incredibly light and nimble for a 160hp bike and seems to have all the features needed for long-range cruising.

 

Is the juice worth the squeeze or am I expecting too much from changing bikes?? I know this is a Venture forum and I'm probably opening myself up for a lot of criticism, but I seriously need some input.

[midnightventure]

The Venture does pretty good until you get into the sharper corners but especially if the corner is rough from people slamming on the brakes it needs some cushion. I just bought a smaller more powerful bike myself although I plan to keep the Venture to ride back and forth to work.

[Great White]

It almost sounds like you've answered your own question.

 

Lots of guys like the FJR1300 too. Might be worth a test ride if for nothing else than a comparison.

 

The RSV is a different class of bike than those types of rides, as I'm sure you're well aware.

 

The Beemer doesn't look like it gives you a lot of options for "foot movement" either:

 

http://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/052014-2014-bmw-k1600gtl-exclusive-20140518_172810-1.jpg

 

Looks kinda "locked in" that way.

 

I'm a "feet under me" rider (gives me better control of my 83) as I like to hussle through the twisties too so i understand what you're looking for. But stretching out now and then to the highway pegs on the front engine guards is a welcome change on long rides. Really extends my seat time between stops. I don't need floor boards out there, but I do need the option to stretch it out when I want to.

 

The beemer is also only going to be so fast through the twisties. It specs out at 770 lbs from what I can find onlline. Closer to 1000 I'd say loaded with rider and kit. It's likely faster than a RSV in corners, but 1000 lbs is only ever going to be so agile. But the engineers at BMW are also pretty savvy at getting their stuff to work better than you would think. The better ground clearance alone might be enough to scratch your itch when cornering with your buds. If you're flicking back and forth in switchbacks for extended time with near 1000 lbs though, you still going to tire out. It takes it's toll on you trying to hussle that much weight through repetitive corners, no matter how good the chassis is.

 

The questions I guess I would ask is which bike will suit most (or all) of your riding needs and the next question would be how fat is your bank account?

 

No matter which way you slice it, BMW makes stonking good kit. Hard to go wrong with it....

 

Edited November 1, 2015 by Great White

[billmac]

relax and ride it. for three days of twisties should not be a problem unless your trying to keep up with crotch rockets, if that's the case just rent a bike for the week and enjoy the venture the rest of the year. white knuckle's on anything is not good

[BlueSky]

If you can't afford the Bimmer, there is always a 1st Gen Venture!

[cowpuc]

Out of all the twisties on all the mountains with all the bikes (including some sport bikes) I have ridden along with on my 1st Gens (never rode a 2nd Gen) I have never been let down with at least being able to keep up - that is one area that I have really never had a complaint.. IMHO, One of the reasons this may or may not be so has to do with the 1st Gens having mid controls.. I have owned other scoots that were forward controls only and gotta admit - that riding position has always lacked in the adrenaline filled world of peg scraping for me.. Probably just me being an odd duck but pegs under me give me more of a feeling of control.. I like to keep my toes twisted down and dab for the corners with it and can usually tell how deep into a corner I am by how far I have to dab to touch pavement, this saves on that icky feeling of scraping (lots of folks like to scrape - I dont actually like the "feeling" that comes over the bike when in a lean and touching steel to pavement).

That brings up another thought for ya Schmily,, how often do you scrape your pegs in those corners? That peg scraping business is kind of a barometer of how hard you are pushing the bike IMHO. If your scraping all the time then ya,, you may very well be overriding your scoots capibilities (could also be suspention not set up correctly). On the same token though, if you have never found the confidence to be able to lean er into the curve and touch bottom once in a while then thats a different subject having to do with practice and getting to know your scoot and learn to trust it...

Now, about that Beemer,, HOKEY SPAMOKY - 160 horsies and 129 foot pounds of torque!! Just pulled up this video about the GTL and WOW,, can definitely see where your "in love" is based - GORGEOUS SCOOT!! Lots of cash up front though,, I think if I were in your shoes I would take a serious look at what I was mentioning concerning the question of - am I holding my current bike back from its potential or is it holding me back - and THAT is question only you can answer..

 

 

WOW ZZZZZ WOW WOW WOW!! Didnt know Beemer had a 6 cylinder 160 hp touring scoot out there... I gotta get out more and MOTHER YAMAHA - YOUR MISSING IT - wont be long and that new V-Max motored Venture will be nothing but a pipe dream

[djh3]

After this falls ride in the mountains, I have had my fill for awhile. LOL I ride at my pace as I'm the one paying my medical. I'm not all that advanced anymore on the twisties fast. Just dont stay in practice much here in Fla. And the RSV is not really a bike for that. But unless your well of financially, to me it depends on what makes most sense for day to day for you.

I would like to buy something a little bit lighter, but definitely lower CG. I like the Victory Vision (not really lighter) or a Cross Country or Crossroads, about 200# lighter. But all have a lower CG so handling is more crisp and light. But for now as much riding as I do, money wise I am having a hard time convincing myself to spend the cash (or finance really)

[cowpuc]

Might take a quick peek back at the pic GW put up of the Beemer.. Notice how high on the seat line the passenger is setting than the driver is setting? IMHO, an increase in that measurement increases top heaviness which is not necessarily helpful in twisty management..

[cowpuc]

Heyyyyy,,, Shmily struck a nerve with this post,, out of 8 views it has 7 responses:stickpoke:!! :clap2::dancefool::thumbsup:

[BlueSky]

Oops! The test rider is a scumbag! He passed on a yellow line!

[MiCarl]

There is a trade off between the stable, comfortable straight line and being nimble in the twisties. The suspension geometry on your 2nd. gen, combined with the forward foot position are great for comfort but both slow you down in the tight turns.

 

Take a look at bikes that are made for handling rather than comfort (sport bikes). They have very little trail in the front suspension and the riders feet are high and below his hips.

[H2O]

This reminds me of something I did way back in the early 80's when I was riding Enduro's.

There were about 12 of us in a group that rode every weekend and some area Enduro's including Black Coal National that was an annual event nearby.

I had been riding the 175 and 250 IT's. Great bikes, but there were about 4 guys in the group that could set a very fast pace, at least for me, and not knowing it, I kept riding over my head to keep pace with them. Couldn't find a way to stay with them consistently so I thought it's gotta be my bike. So after thinking this way for awhile I traded up for a new 390 4 speed automatic Husqvarna. The bike alone brought my skill level up one notch, but it didn't work out the way I thought exactly.

Those guys could still lose me, but funny enough, they didn't care if I kept up or not. They were riding their pace and I should've been riding mine.

After about one year on the Husky I was leading the group. I was gonna see if I could put some distance between me and them.

I reverted to riding over my head again. This time I went down hard, hit a tree and cracked a rib on my left side!

I looked like an idiot creeping out of the woods hunched over with one arm on holding my side and trying to climb the hills.

 

Anyway, I found that my IT's were just fine, the Husqvarna was just fine. I was the problem because I just wanted to set pace with someone else that I couldn't hang with, without pushing my pace too hard. The Husky just made me wreck faster and harder! LOL

 

Today some of the same group ride with us out on the road and we all have different bikes and different skill levels but I've found out that nobody really cares what your pace is. If they act otherwise I don't want to be riding with them anyway.

My wife and I like the RSV and we liked our VR too and I liked my buddies GW, and I like my buddies Ultra Classic.

When and if I get tired of the RSV I might look into another brand, heck, the way Yamaha is draggin' their feet I may have to go to a different brand!

[shmily]

That brings up another thought for ya Schmily,, how often do you scrape your pegs in those corners? That peg scraping business is kind of a barometer of how hard you are pushing the bike IMHO. If your scraping all the time then ya,, you may very well be overriding your scoots capibilities (could also be suspention not set up correctly). On the same token though, if you have never found the confidence to be able to lean er into the curve and touch bottom once in a while then thats a different subject having to do with practice and getting to know your scoot and learn to trust it...

 

Lotta wisdom in that statement Puc and exactly the kind of input I'm looking for from other Royal Star riders. I'm blessed enough to be at a stage in my life when I can actually afford the beemer and the wife says if I want it I should go for it. The problem is that I'm still not sure if the bike is the limiting factor or if it's me. There would be nothing worse than paying that kind of cash for a bike that I think will be a panacea only to learn that I'm the problem and that I still suck on the twisties!

 

The truth is, I don't drag the floorboards very often and it scares the livin' bejeebers out of me when I do.

[vzuden]

The truth is, I don't drag the floorboards very often and it scares the livin' bejeebers out of me when I do.

sounds like you have answered your own question. Ride at your pace and enjoy the ride!

[flyday58]

This reminds me of something I did way back in the early 80's when I was riding Enduro's.

There were about 12 of us in a group that rode every weekend and some area Enduro's including Black Coal National that was an annual event nearby.

I had been riding the 175 and 250 IT's. Great bikes, but there were about 4 guys in the group that could set a very fast pace, at least for me, and not knowing it, I kept riding over my head to keep pace with them. Couldn't find a way to stay with them consistently so I thought it's gotta be my bike. So after thinking this way for awhile I traded up for a new 390 4 speed automatic Husqvarna. The bike alone brought my skill level up one notch, but it didn't work out the way I thought exactly.

Those guys could still lose me, but funny enough, they didn't care if I kept up or not. They were riding their pace and I should've been riding mine.

After about one year on the Husky I was leading the group. I was gonna see if I could put some distance between me and them.

I reverted to riding over my head again. This time I went down hard, hit a tree and cracked a rib on my left side!

I looked like an idiot creeping out of the woods hunched over with one arm on holding my side and trying to climb the hills.

 

Anyway, I found that my IT's were just fine, the Husqvarna was just fine. I was the problem because I just wanted to set pace with someone else that I couldn't hang with, without pushing my pace too hard. The Husky just made me wreck faster and harder! LOL

 

Today some of the same group ride with us out on the road and we all have different bikes and different skill levels but I've found out that nobody really cares what your pace is. If they act otherwise I don't want to be riding with them anyway.

My wife and I like the RSV and we liked our VR too and I liked my buddies GW, and I like my buddies Ultra Classic.

When and if I get tired of the RSV I might look into another brand, heck, the way Yamaha is draggin' their feet I may have to go to a different brand!

Had an '80 and an '81 IT175 back in the day, loved 'em both. Found out quickly about riding over your head when I center-pointed a tree in the woods trying to outrun my buddy on his IT. Painful lesson but much happier after I learned to ride at my pace and not his or the other guys. And you're right again, he didn't care or belittle me for riding a little slower, nobody cared. We were just a bunch of Air Force mechanics having a blast with the little time we had off. Great comments.

[cowpuc]

Sounds like you actually got the best of both worlds Shmily, got a very understanding wife, got the extra cash AND your smart enough to know your own limitations. I think the key here may very well be figuring out what exactly it is you are looking for in your scoot, what will bring you home in one piece and what will make YOU happy at the end of the day .

I too am an avid proponent of riding your own ride, simply put - I dont like to see people get hurt and I sure as beans dont like getting hurt.. I have led a number of neighborhood outings on motorcycles. I tend to be one of those types who likes to cater to the needs of the slower paced riders when I do lead, if we have a brand new rider who needs to do 15 mph on a 35 mph hair pin we all do 15. That said, in some of those situations Tip and I will actually climb on our Honda Helix scooter and go have a blast. Of course, if we are headed cross country we both LOVE riding Tweeks (our 83). We have looked and looked at many other scoots but the fact is, that beat up old Venture fits our needs to a tee.

Then there is this ol V-Max that I just picked up. One of my best friends here in our area has a new V-Rod - I LOVE riding with him and he and I have been enjoying some really really good times out playing motorcycle tag like a couple a teenagers. He also picked up a Honda Ruckus moped to go out and play with me on my Puch 1.5 horse moper.. You may notice a "trend" in all that,,, that being that not all scoots are created equal but all scoots are suppose to be about having fun and for everyone involved to come home satisfied and in one piece..

It is interesting that you mention in your original post that this whole thing kind of revolves around going out with a group of your good friends (must be cause you also mentioned 4 or 5 day adventures = spending multiple days together usually indicates some pretty good friendships = SOUNDS LIKE A RIOT!!). Considering that, maybe what you need to do is take a closer look at what the rest of that group is riding and get yourself something that "fits" closer to the group dynamics. If I had a group of ten really close friends that did a yearly multi day ride and they were all on Sport bikes I may just pick myself up a sport bike and leave my Venture at home. On the same token though,, being me I may also take a hard look at lightening up my Venture for "track days" with the boys first.. Loose the trunk, drop the windshield down to four inches, tighten the boingers, get softer/stickier rubber on the tires and all that and see how it rolls.. You may find out that tweeking your Venture towards the needs of the day may solve a lot of your problems - may also find yourself with multiple bikes for multiple applications in the end too:big-grin-emoticon:

 

Talking about all this is almost as much fun as doing it,,, almost....:bikersmilie:

[shmily]

Excellent perspective.

 

You're very intuitive also. Yes we are all very good friends who have served together in the Army for years.

 

One final question: I'm wondering if getting a bike that was a built with the twisties in mind increase confidence under those conditions or am I smoking crack?

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[XV1100SE]

Lets take this in a different direction.....

Some people have ridden the Dragon with their 2nd Gens, scraped pegs....and not complained about the 2nd Gen.

What I'd suggest is take a look at your bike and see what you can do to improve your confidence in the twisties.

1) Is your steering head too loose? Put the bike on a lift and turn the handle bars 45 degrees to the left and let go. If the handle bars move on their own, your steering head is too loose. Look in the read only section for the "quick fix" to tighten them. I usually check/adjust mine every 10-15k km.

2) what tires do you have on the bike? How old are they? What size do you have on the front?

3) does your bike have leveling links?

 

Check this info before you go to something else.

[cowpuc]

As in all things Shmily,, the following is one of those "IMHO" thingies..

 

Most bikes really do have a "purpose built" idea behind them. There is an old saying that I have heard many times over in race circuits = a fast rider will be fast no matter what he rides. That saying does hold a lot of merit BUT - a world class MXer is not going to be able to compete on a Motocross Track, even with Novice riders, if he is riding a Honda Goldwing on the track - just aint gonna happen. Now that is an extreme example BUT - within that extreme example are some very important items that cant be ignored!

I have seen the question you are asking and what I am responding with played out many many times over - from little kids on minibikes to adults on big bikes, indeed - a purpose built bike being applied to what it is purposely built for can, will and usually does inspire confidence - you are not on crack:biker:

 

Experience has also taught me though that an overly confident person ( it is not uncommon for a bike to inspire to much confidence) is usually a very dangerous person too though. For instance, that GTL that you pointed out - I look at a scoot like that and TOTALLY see a TON of fun waiting to be had. I have the exact same "feeling" run thru me when ever I view videos of the new V-Max because I LOVE massive HP and Torque. My underlying problem (for me) is that I also know that big power numbers like those two produce can actually work against you when the user friendliness and over input forgiveness found in handling lesser HP machines when ya wick on em is gone. The more powerful they are, the more precise you have to be in your input (there is always a give and take) - make sense? Just something to think about..

 

Hey Shmily,, what other machines have you got in the group of guys you ride with?

[bongobobny]

I found out kind of the hard way that you can lean a 2nd gen pretty darn far. I entered a sweeper a little too fast for my comfort level with the bike but was determined not to crash so I pushed it past the comfort zone for leaning and held on for dear life. That's when I learned just how far I could lean it!

 

In reality the 2nd gen is a touring bike, not a crotch rocket. It really wasn't designed to be used full throttle through the twisties. It's designed for many hours on the open highway...

[Leland]

Only two people care if you are the fastest. The cop and the judge.

[cowpuc]

Only two people care if you are the fastest. The cop and the judge.

 

Ahh ohhh,, you forgot about the Trophy Girl Leland :bikersmilie::bikersmilie: (Tippy)

[shmily]

This has been an interesting thread and has certainly helped my shape my thinking about the topic. Here's a quick synopsis:

 

1. Be OK riding at your comfort level, not your riding buddy's,

 

2. There are things that can be done to the Venture to make it a little more manageable on the twisties,

 

3. A better bike won't necessarily make ME a better rider; if anything perhaps overly-confident, and,

 

4. At my current comfort level, the bike is not the limiting factor. Most likely, my confidence level is.

 

Sound about right?

[BlueSky]

There's one more thing to consider!! You'd look great on a new BMW1600:12101:

[cowpuc]

This has been an interesting thread and has certainly helped my shape my thinking about the topic. Here's a quick synopsis:

 

1. Be OK riding at your comfort level, not your riding buddy's,

 

2. There are things that can be done to the Venture to make it a little more manageable on the twisties,

 

3. A better bike won't necessarily make ME a better rider; if anything perhaps overly-confident, and,

 

4. At my current comfort level, the bike is not the limiting factor. Most likely, my confidence level is.

 

Sound about right?

 

 

1. Totally agree

2. Absolutely

3. Hard to say, if by "better" bike you mean a bike that fits the dynamics of how you and your buddies ride when your together than it could actually make you a better rider because your not trying to force your RSV to do something its not designed for. Like you mentioned - that can be exhausting and exhaustion alone can certainly chip away at ones skills.. There is a lot to it...

As far as the over confident issue,, IMHO you sound like the kind of person that would not be likely to have issues with it because you are obviously thinking about it - usually over confidence comes from not thinking things thru. I only brought it up because I have seen the results of it played out a number of times and thought best to bring it up cause your my friend and friends warn each other of things like that..

4. IMHO, thats a pretty rough call with not enough information, only you can know how your bike fits into the needs of the group your riding with. Also, I have never had the honor of riding an RSV so I have really been going out on a limb even sharing thoughts, idea's or even my opinion about the bikes cornering characteristics and capabilities.

I will say this though, I do TOTALLY agree with you that this thread has been fun and very interesting and I thank you for posting it up. Regardless of whether you decide to go Beemer, stay with your RSV or end up owning both (that happens ya know ) I wish you ALL the best in the funnest, safest and fulfilling rides with those Army buddies of yours!!

 

There's one more thing to consider!! You'd look great on a new BMW1600:12101:

right there with ya Blue!!

:thumbsup: I know one thing, if I had one of those puppies I would be :big-grin-emoticon: and snappin 's and running all over the country to show it off

 

After watching that video about it I feel like: