YamaDuck Posted June 14, 2014 Share #1 Posted June 14, 2014 Do you think the HD would give me much on a 2000MM and a green 2001 Venture? Both are in the garage and both are broke down! I am in the process of changing the slave unit on the MM. I thought I had figured out the electrical problem on the 2001 but today I went on a 180 round trip lunch run and made it about 120 miles. I rode it about 45 miles round trip the other day with no problems. The other day after fully charging the battery it was showing 14.04 volts DC. After turning on all the electrical stuff and revving it up it dropped to 13.98 volts DC. Today about 80 miles into the trip we stopped for a break and when we went to leave the 2001 would not crank. We jumped it off and I left the group and jumped on the interstate and made it about 40 miles. The dash lights started getting dim, the radio cut off, the speedometer went haywire and then went to zero then the engine died and I had to have it toed home. I really don't want a HD but enough is enough. Everything test alright on the 2001. I swapped the R/R on the bikes and everything checked out. I swapped the batteries out and they both took a charge and they tested good at the auto parts store BUT this is the same battery that died in the MM on the way home a couple of weeks ago and has been tested to be good. Even if the battery was bad the motorcycle should continue to run until it is shut off. If the stator was bad then I would not get the 14.04 volts DC reading. Somebody just shoot me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV1100SE Posted June 14, 2014 Share #2 Posted June 14, 2014 You think you'll have fewer problems with an HD ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaDuck Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted June 14, 2014 You think you'll have fewer problems with an HD ????? No. But at least I would be expecting the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricksbike Posted June 14, 2014 Share #4 Posted June 14, 2014 Well at least you could fix the harley with baling wire and a hammer--LOL.: :rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted June 14, 2014 Share #5 Posted June 14, 2014 No idea how the harness is laid out on a second gen BUT, they gotta have a 3 blade connecter for the 3 phase output coming from the stator somewhere.. that connector has caused me nothing but grief over the years on my 1st gens. Replaced one on tweeks not to long ago, properly rated and it still melted between the blades, blades made contact and I lost a stator.. thankfully two heros in texas rescude us and we got it done BUT,, I AINT NEVER TRUSTING THAT CONNECTOR AGAIN (S0said that before but didnt listen to my own advice). Ohm out your stator very carefully, after your satisfied with its condition HARD WIRE IT! I also have my rr hard wired.. Trace it down, you will find it. no ideawhat an HD shop will give ya for the bikes but I do know that notbeven brand new bikes are bullet proof.. if you do decide to get one, I stronly suggest test riding the bike BEFORE you sign the papers..if you can catch the harley demo truck and ride several of the back to back you may very well notice some big differences between simular models that just shouldnt be there,,,, like strange vibes, weird shifting and the like.. go from there armed with knowledge of a good one runs and rides like and your chances of not getting future problems increase dramatically,, IMHO of course.. Best ofluck on all counts! puc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil86 Posted June 14, 2014 Share #6 Posted June 14, 2014 Best bet is when you have time, retest the electrical....assume nothing. If everything passes...test again hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrycuda Posted June 14, 2014 Share #7 Posted June 14, 2014 Maybe after stepping away a bit you can come back refreshed and follow what Puc and the rest are suggesting. HD dealer will most definitely chew you down on both bikes and maybe even more if one or both RSV acts up in front of them. HD are very tempting, yes. But you seem to know how to navigate around an RSV from reading past posts. If you truly have had it, and want to switch bikes, why not consider a honda or Vulcan or nomad ? Still liquid cooled and much more reliable, in the grand scheme of things. Or ...see about getting a HD if they will throw in a free trailer... this is what it will look like from the car next to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eusa1 Posted June 14, 2014 Share #8 Posted June 14, 2014 Harry!!!!! Don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Venture Posted June 14, 2014 Share #9 Posted June 14, 2014 How can you do voltage tests without a good known source. Put a good battery out of something else in it, then redo your tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaDuck Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted June 15, 2014 How can you do voltage tests without a good known source. Put a good battery out of something else in it, then redo your tests. I WAS ONLY JOKING ABOUT THE HD. I have the battery on slow charge right now. When I pushed it into the garage I disconnected the battery and checked the DC voltage with nothing connected. It measured 11.16 volts. I have it on SLOW 2 amp charge so it will take a while to charge. I will check again before I connect everything again and then I will check everything after I get it connected. I did swap batteries. The weird thing is that this is actually the battery that was in my MM that failed a few weeks ago. It got home but the turn signals were acting funny and when I got home the MM would not crank. So now that battery is in the 2001 and today it failed again but this time I did not make it home. I was under the impression that even if the battery went bad the bike would run as long as the stator and R/R were fine and when I tested it they tested fine a few days ago. After it charges I will start all over again and test everything. I know the R/R is good because it came off the MM also. Oh well it is a good thing I am retired. Tomorrow is shot as it is Father's Day. I have 3 days to figure this out before I have to keep my 4 month old granddaughter again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Venture Posted June 15, 2014 Share #11 Posted June 15, 2014 The stator is only able to output a certain amount of watts. If the battery has died, it will absorb some of that wattage and if the difference is not enough it will be a declining power situation. In a car, there are an abundance of watts from the alternator and a dead battery will usually not draw it down far enough to deprive the ignition from functioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaDuck Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share #12 Posted June 15, 2014 The stator is only able to output a certain amount of watts. If the battery has died, it will absorb some of that wattage and if the difference is not enough it will be a declining power situation. In a car, there are an abundance of watts from the alternator and a dead battery will usually not draw it down far enough to deprive the ignition from functioning. Ok so now it is making sense to me. I was thinking that a stator on a motorcycle should act like a alternator in a car. So if the stator does not put out enough to compensate for a bad battery then at some point the bike will die. I hope I am understanding this correctly because the battery today is also the same battery that died in the MM a few weeks ago. I did have it tested and it tested good but it is also my understanding that sometimes a bad battery will test good even under their load testing procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoTorKev Posted June 15, 2014 Share #13 Posted June 15, 2014 I'm still new to the venture, had one for about 4 months now, but I have had several bikes over the years and all of them required constant positive voltage from the battery to run correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted June 15, 2014 Share #14 Posted June 15, 2014 I know the R/R is good because it came off the MM also. How do you know the R/R is good?? Maybe it intermittently goes bad! You should have put the '01 back in the '01 because NOW you have 2 variables, the battery AND the R/R... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted June 15, 2014 Share #15 Posted June 15, 2014 It kind of sounds like you have a good indication of the trouble. The battery. It gave you trouble in one bike and you moved it over and now the trouble is there intermittently. those intermittent things are a pain to troubleshoot, believe me. Yes a battery can test "good" and then actually be bad. If they get say a cracked plate inside, if it makes contact when you test it it checks good then you ride and it shuffles around and now not so good of contact and it shorts out. As for the voltage the like mid to late 70's GM cars with HEI needed like 11.5 volts to give a "hot" spark, under that they would run but under stress they would misfire, under about 11v they might not even run. I have read the electrical system on the bike are minimum on the charging side. If everything is working its fine, but start to add some extras and now its at its limit. I wouldnt think the carb heaters are running as the temps are high pretty much everywhere and dont need to run. but them bugger take like 30amp or something when they kick on, even though its momentary. I have no idea what the engine control module needs just to produce a good spark on these but I will reckon its upwards of 11.5 or more volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightventure Posted June 15, 2014 Share #16 Posted June 15, 2014 The R/R can also test good but be bad. If it tests bad it is definitely bad but the Yamaha procedure is to eliminate everything else and if there is still a problem replace the R/R. Symptoms sound a lot like what I had a couple of years ago that turned out to be the R/R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike Posted June 15, 2014 Share #17 Posted June 15, 2014 I doubt it, Since one is Green and they would feel guilty trading two Ventures for just one HD. Tell em you'll take a Road Glide for one bike, they choose the color and 2K. Sounds Fair to me! But have one of them counterfeit checking pens with you, you NEVER know where their money has come from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSTDdog Posted June 15, 2014 Share #18 Posted June 15, 2014 I have the battery on slow charge right now. When I pushed it into the garage I disconnected the battery and checked the DC voltage with nothing connected. It measured 11.16 volts. I have it on SLOW 2 amp charge so it will take a while to charge. I will check again before I connect everything again and then I will check everything after I get it connected. This sounds like a battery with a weak/bad cell. After Charging it, check the voltage,then let it sit for 24 hours then check the standing voltage again on the battery. If the voltage on the battery after 24 hours is less than 12.5, its weak. What brand of battery? A properly serviced, fully charged new Yuasa MF battery for these bikes will have a standing voltage of 12.7-13.0 volts 24 hours after charging is complete. Mine is never below 12.6 even after sitting 30 days, but I have an RSTD so no draw from the radio memory, etc. I haven't read your other threads, but simply checking the stator by ohming it out is not sufficient. If you haven't already, you also need to check the stator out put voltage (its AC) on each leg. The battery seems to be the consistent link here. Problem with MF batteries (no really MF stands for Maintenance Free, its a family site!) is you can't check specific gravity of the cells which will identify the bad cell in hurry. Does the bike have extra lights, accessories, non-factory wiring? If yes and youdidn't install it or know the integrity/quality of the install, perhaps revisit these areas for chafed/loose connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventureless Posted June 15, 2014 Share #19 Posted June 15, 2014 You said you were just joking about getting a Harley and I know very little about electrical, but I will tell you my experience with trying to trade my Venture in. I did find a nice used Road Glide at a local shop. I decided it was time for me to trade my problematic Venture in. Well the sales guy pretty much told me that because it wasn't a Harley, they didn't want it in their showroom. I proceeded to laugh and just walk out. As I am walking out he asked if I was still interested. I just laughed harder and kept walking out the door without saying another word. Then recently I went to another dealer and decided I was walking out with a new Road King. Well when I asked about my trade. When they saw it was a Yamaha, they also told me they did not want it. I asked why they would not even offer anything to someone ready to walk out the door on a new $20K bike. When he told me because it was not a Harley, I once again started laughing and walked out. This is why I will be getting my Suzuki Vstrom in the next couple weeks. They have no problem taking my trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted June 15, 2014 Share #20 Posted June 15, 2014 Get yourself a good DEKA AGM type battery, Earl, Skydoc_17 sells them at a good price delivered to your door... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billmac Posted June 15, 2014 Share #21 Posted June 15, 2014 Had a battery that kept discharging and it checked ok at the battery shop, one day I took it to another shop and told then what was going on. when the guy put the load on it it read good but he said I'll leave it a little longer and about 30 sec later the battery started showing bad. bad cell in battery. this battery was only 3 months old and failed. just bought a new battery from the shop the found the problem. Yes I hate battery/electrical problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaDuck Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share #22 Posted June 15, 2014 I'm still new to the venture, had one for about 4 months now, but I have had several bikes over the years and all of them required constant positive voltage from the battery to run correctly. This is true and every time I check it it is getting constant voltage. It may disconnect somewhere on a ride but I have no way of knowing while I am riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaDuck Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share #23 Posted June 15, 2014 How do you know the R/R is good?? Maybe it intermittently goes bad! You should have put the '01 back in the '01 because NOW you have 2 variables, the battery AND the R/R... I swapped them one at a time and tested them after I swapped each one (battery and R/R) and both times it tested ok. If it is an intermittent problem I don't know how I am going to catch the problem unless I just luck up on it or start changing parts one at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaDuck Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share #24 Posted June 15, 2014 It kind of sounds like you have a good indication of the trouble. The battery. It gave you trouble in one bike and you moved it over and now the trouble is there intermittently. those intermittent things are a pain to troubleshoot, believe me. Yes a battery can test "good" and then actually be bad. If they get say a cracked plate inside, if it makes contact when you test it it checks good then you ride and it shuffles around and now not so good of contact and it shorts out. As for the voltage the like mid to late 70's GM cars with HEI needed like 11.5 volts to give a "hot" spark, under that they would run but under stress they would misfire, under about 11v they might not even run. I have read the electrical system on the bike are minimum on the charging side. If everything is working its fine, but start to add some extras and now its at its limit. I wouldnt think the carb heaters are running as the temps are high pretty much everywhere and dont need to run. but them bugger take like 30amp or something when they kick on, even though its momentary. I have no idea what the engine control module needs just to produce a good spark on these but I will reckon its upwards of 11.5 or more volts. Well I know it is higher than 11.16 volts as that is what the battery tested when I got home. It has been charging since I got home about 3:30pm yesterday. So I am going to test it when it is fully charged and then check a few times later without anything connected. The I will connect the + & - and test again over a period of time before I crank it and perform the test again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaDuck Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share #25 Posted June 15, 2014 The R/R can also test good but be bad. If it tests bad it is definitely bad but the Yamaha procedure is to eliminate everything else and if there is still a problem replace the R/R. Symptoms sound a lot like what I had a couple of years ago that turned out to be the R/R. I have a new R/R and after I test everything again and if I still have the problem I will put the new R/R on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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