luke000 Posted March 6, 2013 Share #1 Posted March 6, 2013 It looks like I will be doing more work on my cooling system in the near future and I want an opinion of a "while I am in there...." upgrade to the 4 brush Vmax starter. I am not sure what is considered "slow cranking" for these bikes, but I can say when I bought it the starter was awful. I have since put in a brand new Deka battery and it is 13.665 times better. I took a video of my starter this morning (It does not start because I had no choke on but getting it to start is absolutely no problem even with old battery) just to show you an accurate representation of the starter speed. The bike was cold and only about 30 degrees out. I don't know how it is warm starting because I have never had an opportunity to ride the bike but 1 mile yesterday before it started to puke coolant and I shut it off. So without further rambling..... I know I am the next Francis Coppola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncledj Posted March 6, 2013 Share #2 Posted March 6, 2013 I think it's a matter of personal preference. When my 87 is hot, on a hot Summer day, it'll crank like the battery is going dead, but has NEVER failed to start. Sometimes it REALLY sounds like it's not gonna go, but it always does. I'm gong to do the upgrade 'cause it always bugs me when it does this, and I like to do a lil' sumthin' sumthin' to improve my bike every year. Go out on a hot day and you'll see why these folks like to upgrade the starters on the first gens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted March 6, 2013 Share #3 Posted March 6, 2013 At the time that "I was in there" cash was short so I did the ground wire mod, and that helped the slow starting a lot. Next on the list is to upgrade to 4 AWG welding wire for the starter circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiCarl Posted March 6, 2013 Share #4 Posted March 6, 2013 My 89 would crank like that too. Then when it got good and hot and I'd stop for fuel it would barely turn to start back up. Sometimes it'd kick off, others I'd need to let it cool, jump or push start it. With the V-Max starter it'll crank like your video when it's well heat soaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted March 6, 2013 Share #5 Posted March 6, 2013 My 89 would crank like that too. Then when it got good and hot and I'd stop for fuel it would barely turn to start back up. Sometimes it'd kick off, others I'd need to let it cool, jump or push start it. With the V-Max starter it'll crank like your video when it's well heat soaked. Also, a 1999-2012 Ventures have a 4 brush starter. Sometimes cheaper than a VMax, that name seems to be worth a premium to many. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etohio Posted March 6, 2013 Share #6 Posted March 6, 2013 My bike did the same thing. When cold it would crank like you would think it should but when hot you worried that it was not going to start. What really bothered me was when you were on a group ride. I had a coolant leak in the hose that goes to the diverter valve so while I was in there I replaced the starter. It was worth every penny...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke000 Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted March 6, 2013 Also, a 1999-2012 Ventures have a 4 brush starter. Sometimes cheaper than a VMax, that name seems to be worth a premium to many. Gary Thank you for reminding of me that, I just found a starter on eBay from a guy just a few miles away from me, I bought a CB from him last week. He is asking $50 and I could pick it up. He had it listed as a 99 venture star starter (50k mile bike). I think I will give him a call about it tomorrow unless anyone sees a reason not to . I might as well do this work while I am in there, even though I do not know how it starts hot. I don't want to tear it down again during riding season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiCarl Posted March 6, 2013 Share #8 Posted March 6, 2013 Thank you for reminding of me that, I just found a starter on eBay from a guy just a few miles away from me, I bought a CB from him last week. He is asking $50 and I could pick it up. He had it listed as a 99 venture star starter (50k mile bike). I think I will give him a call about it tomorrow unless anyone sees a reason not to . I might as well do this work while I am in there, even though I do not know how it starts hot. I don't want to tear it down again during riding season. Best $50 you'll ever spend. Before you install it have a peek at the brushes. No point pulling it out again in June to replace the brushes. dingy, I think the primary reason we're discussing V-Max starters is the eBay seller many of us used sells them for about $30 less than the RSV starter. I suspect the only difference is the color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaggletooth Posted March 6, 2013 Share #9 Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) You won't regret the change to a 4 brush. Nope. My '84 was terrible about hot starts. Had to wait for it to cool down. I started by doing the heavy guage cables. Helped a little. Rebuilt the 2 brush and installed new brushs. Even did the ground mod. Helped a little more until the starter burned out. (long story there about cheap brushs) Installed the DEKA AGM. Big boost with that. After the starter fried I changed to the 4 brush. Been about 3 years now with no issues. Perfect start hot or cold any time. While you have that all apart inspect those cable all the way from the battery to the ground on the motor. Every connection and end. If there is any doubt replace the cable. They can be the weakest link no matter how good the other components are. Edited March 6, 2013 by Snaggletooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke000 Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted March 6, 2013 Got my new starter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted March 6, 2013 Share #11 Posted March 6, 2013 Yup!! 4 brush starter with new brushes, and thicker battery lines along with your DEKA battery should fix any and all starter motor problems. Now the carbs on the other hand is a whole different can of worms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwashorn Posted March 6, 2013 Share #12 Posted March 6, 2013 This is a good read for me. All my past VRs had this problem and my now '89 is the same. Guess I need to start looking for a starter that fits it. Not sure how hard it is to change out. but I hate that not wanting to start after getting gas and crossing fingers it will spin over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted March 6, 2013 Share #13 Posted March 6, 2013 This is a good read for me. All my past VRs had this problem and my now '89 is the same. Guess I need to start looking for a starter that fits it. Not sure how hard it is to change out. but I hate that not wanting to start after getting gas and crossing fingers it will spin over. It is not "hard" to change out, but it is a PITA because of all the stuff that has to come off to get to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yooper Posted March 7, 2013 Share #14 Posted March 7, 2013 This is a good refresher. Question again does a 1990 throu 1993 have the 4 brush starter??? Yoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted March 7, 2013 Share #15 Posted March 7, 2013 This is a good refresher. Question again does a 1990 throu 1993 have the 4 brush starter??? Yoop Not from the factory. That's at minimum, 20 year old machine. No telling what previous owner(s) may have done. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adventurer 08 Posted March 7, 2013 Share #16 Posted March 7, 2013 What kind of cable should you up grade to and where can you get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncledj Posted March 7, 2013 Share #17 Posted March 7, 2013 Got my new starter delivered today! It'll probably be a few weeks before I install it though. I'll post then and let y'all know how much of a difference it makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted March 7, 2013 Share #18 Posted March 7, 2013 What kind of cable should you up grade to and where can you get it? You can get it from a lot of places. You want 4AWG welding cable or battery cable. One place is McMaster-Carr #6948K921 for black and #6948K922 for red. You can also find the terminals there. Most places that sell Marine supplies or parts for custom car building will have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted March 7, 2013 Share #19 Posted March 7, 2013 You can get it from a lot of places. You want 4AWG welding cable or battery cable. One place is McMaster-Carr #6948K921 for black and #6948K922 for red. You can also find the terminals there. Most places that sell Marine supplies or parts for custom car building will have it. What Jeff posted is adequate, if you want the good stuff McMaster Carr numbers are below. Electric tends to flow along the surface of any given wire. The cable below has over a 1000 strands in it that supposedly allow better conductivity of current. This cable only comes in orange, but you could put heat shrink over it. Very flexible easy to route . Picture of cable attached from McMaster, they nicked conductors not me. Below it is stock cable. 7818A11 Heavy Duty Welding Cable, #4 Cable Size, .420" Overall Od $3.64 per foot. 7113K249 Standard Ring Terminal, Noninsulated, 4 Awg, 1/4" Screw/stud Size $10.65 for pack of ten. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose68 Posted April 19, 2013 Share #20 Posted April 19, 2013 How many Ft of cable would I need to replace everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted April 19, 2013 Share #21 Posted April 19, 2013 Not sure exactly but I would say 6 ft should do it. The positive cable is the longer one, the ground one is about 2 ft give or take... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnewton Posted August 29, 2013 Share #22 Posted August 29, 2013 Just installed a 2001 RSV starter in my 86 VR! 1000% better now with the 4 brush versus the 2 brush (when it would work, before it got a flat spot). I have done nothing else, and the bike starts instantly every time! If you have issues starting just get the newer starter. Mine was a used one off ebay for a total of 60$ including shipping! Replaced all cooling system plastics (90° elbow and thermostat cover) and every oring on every joint as long as I had it all apart! The 'drip' of green is gone! Do the upgraded starter if you desire to rid yourself of starting issues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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