KeithR Posted July 21, 2010 Share #1 Posted July 21, 2010 I have been reading and reading and reading and not getting a good feel for my situation. So I will ask the experts! I have a new Piggybacker XL that I bought last year and haven't used. I'm getting ready for a trip in August so figured I should try this thing out. I find a slow speeds I have a very bad shimmy and smooths out a little the faster I go but to tell you the truth I didn't feel very good the way it handled so I kept it at 80kms max/48mph. I wouldn't dare go any faster and headed back to the garage. These are my specs. Trailer Tires - 28psi Rear Shock - 26.5psi Front Tire 42psi Rear Tire 49.5psi Front Forks - I guess 6lbs? on pump 3 strokes before 10Lb mark Tongue Weight 33lbs (weighed by lifting off ball....it was 28 when i chked off bike) Trailer Weight 248lbs (weighed with scale on each tire with tire on opposite side level with scale) Trailer Tires were balanced So what do you think...... Is it possible my tires are not mounted square to trailer frame? Looking for ideas.....I have heard it said many a time that you don't know its behind you so it has to be something I'm not doing right.I can tell you I knew it was there and scared the crap out of me..... Thanks Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted July 22, 2010 Share #2 Posted July 22, 2010 Keith, 1st thing I'm going to mention is put more air in your rear shock. Even solo I would want over 30 lbs in it. Take the trailer tires down to about 20 lbs. Make sure that your hubs are tightened properly on the axle, and then that the rims are all the way against the hubs. When I have hauled a trailer, riding 2 up and the bike loaded behind a 2nd gen I had my rear shock @ 50 lbs. Your not going to hurt anything with having the trailer tires with lower pressure as you dont even come close to the load limits of them. Just a couple things to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamadawg Posted July 22, 2010 Share #3 Posted July 22, 2010 I'm certainly no expert but I have ran basically the same set up that Squidley detailed and after two trips over 4K miles each and several shorter jaunts never felt any sway or shimmy. This was at speeds from zero to 80, too. I run right at 48 psi in the rear shock and none in the front. I just run the recommended pressure in the tires. In addition I have always tried to keep the tongue weight as close to 20 pounds as possible. I set the leg on a bath scale when loading and rearranging the load on level ground and try to replicate that every time we put the stuff back in. We tend to pack WAYYYYY too much, so I do not think your issue is the total weight, but could be the distribution of that weight. I try to visually insure the load is even left to right, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share #4 Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the reply's guys! I have boosted my shock to 45lbs.....trailer tires to 20lbs.....I'll reduce the tongue weight closer to 20lbs.....(I have a bucket of road salt in my cooler for the trial run so that will be easy to adjust).... My weight distribution was 25lbs heaver on one side than the other......would that be a big issue ?? I also moved my cooler rack closer to the back approx 2-1/2".....now about 1" from front of cargo box......that changed my tongue weight to 19lbs. Worst thing is when I ride into my garage I have to unhook everything inorder to go for another test run......note to self...need bigger garage! I'll try your suggestions and take it for another run tomorrow night!! Thanks Again Keith Edited July 22, 2010 by KeithR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted July 22, 2010 Share #5 Posted July 22, 2010 Like airplanes, it's important to balance the load and trim the aircraft, um...I mean bike. In addition to what has already been posted...in no particular order: Lower the front tire pressure to 36 PSI unless you weigh over 300 pounds. Lower the rear tire pressure to 42 to 46 PSI. If you weigh over 300, or you and your passenger weigh more than 450, then 49PSI or so is ok. Use a known, calibrated gauge. Check the steering head bearings on your bike. See the tech section on this. Balance the load in the trailer left to right, and put the heavier items AHEAD of the axle, keeping tongue weight around 20-25 pounds ( or 10% of the loaded trailer weight), more or less. Check/tighten ALL the hardware on the hitch, the ball, and the coupler, and the axle hardware and springs or torsion stubs. Then DOUBLE check it all again! Check the runout and side-to-side play of the trailer hubs and wheels. Also lift the trailer and make sure the wheels will spin freely for awhile when spun by hand. If not, re-torque the bearings. Please post again when you try it after these corrections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted July 22, 2010 Share #6 Posted July 22, 2010 I find that at slow speeds, I mean slow, like 5 mph, the trailer will wiggle the bike somewhat, especially when going over bumps or through holes,,, no need to worry about that, once you put the power to the back wheel the bike will take over and you should run free and easy, and the only thing you will notice will be that your scoot will have to work harder to get up to speed. aannnnddd it will take longer to stop,,, ya that's all important,,, it takes longer to stop, what I mean with that is that it takes longer to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 22, 2010 Share #7 Posted July 22, 2010 I think to much air in your trailer tires myself, I have had the piggy XL for about 4 years now and I have not had any issues with it like your talking about. I would also call tom at piggybacker and talk to him. he will do you right. I believe my tires are running about 20lbs. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dray Posted July 22, 2010 Share #8 Posted July 22, 2010 heres a tidbit no one brought up check your coupler on the ball it may be overley tight you need it loose enough so it dont hold the bike when your trying to make small adjustments in the steering \ just take it off the ball and under neath the cupler there is a nut just back it off till it fits nice but you want it to move very free had a heck of a time with mine first time i took it out any thing over 40 would scare the crud out of ya! once I loosened up the nut a bit poof no more problems the coupler moves free now dray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmaster Posted July 22, 2010 Share #9 Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) Keith, Sounds like all good advice above. I would say 10% Tongue Weight would be the minimum I shoot for 15%. I run 25 psi in my trailer tires (This was determined by loading trailer then laying down Paper and spay painted the tire tread and rolled over paper to see the foot print or tire patch looking for flat and even distribution of tread). You also might have a bent rim on one of the tires or not lug nuts where not evenly tightened in a criss cross pattern. Your next pull should be done with an Automobile upto 75 mph and NOT with your Bike until this is smoothed out!!! Keep us post Keith. Good Luck Edited July 22, 2010 by frogmaster spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share #10 Posted July 22, 2010 Dray When I pulled in back into the garage and put the bike on the side stand there was no way I could lift the trailer tongue off the ball. The bars were to the far left.......I turned them to the far right and still would not let go. I gave it a slight tap with a dead blow hammer and it still wouldn't let go.....I had to put a block under my stand and make the bike level before it would release........then it was ok......so maybe there is something up with the trailer tongue? I'll have a better look at that. Thanks Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmaster Posted July 22, 2010 Share #11 Posted July 22, 2010 Did you place a 1 - 7/8" Hitch on a 2" Ball? If both are 1 - 7/8" then like Dray said loosen the Nut under the coupler. Not too loose not to tight. Some folks place a piece of thin Fabric 4" x 4" Square soaked in a lubrication oil so it will freely adjust to movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kross Kountry Posted July 22, 2010 Share #12 Posted July 22, 2010 You have a trailer tire out of balance. Dyna beads or better yet Ride-On. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 22, 2010 Share #13 Posted July 22, 2010 Have I told everybody how much I love Ride-On? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted July 22, 2010 Share #14 Posted July 22, 2010 Make sure your bearings aren't overtightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share #15 Posted July 23, 2010 I'm still adjusting......worked late today so no time for a test ride. Its a 1-7/8" ball.......Diamond R Hitch I removed the ball and tried it in the coupler and it was kinda snug.....it would bind a bit .....I backed the nut off a little and it rotates alot more freely. I checked the hubs and the rims are snug up against the hubs.......nuts were torqued to 80ftlbs in a criss cross pattern. I did have the wheels balanced while I was putting the trailer together at a tire shop. Dyna Beads or Ride On isn't an option in my part of the world........They think Avon only makes perfume and bubble bath at my local dealer !! I had a mechanic from work come and set up my bearings after I re-lubed them and they spin freely. Stay Tuned.......if its not raining tomorrow after work I'm gonna go for another ride! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted July 23, 2010 Share #16 Posted July 23, 2010 I did have the wheels balanced while I was putting the trailer together at a tire shop. Dyna Beads or Ride On isn't an option in my part of the world........ Keith FYI http://www.dynabeads.ca/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dray Posted July 23, 2010 Share #17 Posted July 23, 2010 Dray When I pulled in back into the garage and put the bike on the side stand there was no way I could lift the trailer tongue off the ball. The bars were to the far left.......I turned them to the far right and still would not let go. I gave it a slight tap with a dead blow hammer and it still wouldn't let go.....I had to put a block under my stand and make the bike level before it would release........then it was ok......so maybe there is something up with the trailer tongue? I'll have a better look at that. Thanks Keith yep i did the same thing over tightend the toung and it egg shaped the coupler went on the ball hard and had to beat it off with a block of wood and a deadblow hammer your going to need a new coupler the one on mine when i set the coupler on the toung there was a gap so i shimed one side and do not over tighten it just snug it up real good now under the coupler there is a nut it alowes you to adjust the tension of the coupler on the ball set it so it can move freely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted July 24, 2010 Author Share #18 Posted July 24, 2010 (edited) I'm Back.............. Did all the tweaking and still no change......feels like I'm riding on a flat front tire.....if I loosen the grip on the bars they start to shimmy.......only thing I haven't done is the steering head bearing adjustment. I did the "Test" this spring and it didn't flop around when I let it go from the center position? Help.............. Ok ....I went for another ride.......reduced tongue weight to 21lbs...(Scale was off I discover).......not quite so bad......still feels like the bike is squirming in under me. I don't get that....Don't know its there feeling! Keith Edited July 24, 2010 by KeithR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted July 24, 2010 Author Share #19 Posted July 24, 2010 Got a couple of questions about the trailer assembly. Where do most people have the spare tire mounted...(I have been thinking about not having it mounted at all ?) The inst say at the front but somewhere along the way I read to mount it on the rear frame. I have mine mounted on the rear.....thinking about tongue weight. On where the coupler mounts there is a plate/shim welded to one side......mine came with 3 washers so I assumed I was short one and put 1 washer on each of the two bolts...both sides...4 washers.....should I have put washers only on the side without the shim? Thanks Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted July 24, 2010 Share #20 Posted July 24, 2010 (edited) Got a couple of questions about the trailer assembly. Where do most people have the spare tire mounted...(I have been thinking about not having it mounted at all ?) The inst say at the front but somewhere along the way I read to mount it on the rear frame. I have mine mounted on the rear.....thinking about tongue weight. On where the coupler mounts there is a plate/shim welded to one side......mine came with 3 washers so I assumed I was short one and put 1 washer on each of the two bolts...both sides...4 washers.....should I have put washers only on the side without the shim? Thanks Keith I wonder where the piggy-backer owners are on this? I dont own one, but I assume that being off-center by 1/16 inch or so should not cause the wobble. As far as the spare, I dont carry a spare on either of my trailers. I make sure the tires are good before I leave on a trip, and if not, I replace them. Since the trailer tires ride 'in the clear', they dont get nails and debris kicked up by the motorcycle tires, so, like a trike, you almost never have a flat on the rears. Its been known to happen, so its up to you, of course. I believe you can buy those wheel/tire combos almost anywhere, including Wal-mart, Lowes, Home Depot, and many auto, RV, and farm stores. If you need one on the road, they should be easy to find. And carrying a small airpump, patch/plug kit, tire spoon, and lugwrench is a good idea anyway. You can patch (tubes) or plug (tubeless) and change these tires right on the trailer without even taking the wheel off the hub. I've done it. As far as balance, I suspect that mounting the spare up front is better, but thats a guess. If you mount it toward the back, then if the trailer is pulled empty, it might cause some tail-heavy induced wobble. Edited July 24, 2010 by tx2sturgis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dray Posted July 24, 2010 Share #21 Posted July 24, 2010 Keith ? does your bike ride good when the trailer is off it? does it ride ok with the trailer empty ? does it ride weard only when the trailer is loaded ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted July 24, 2010 Author Share #22 Posted July 24, 2010 Hi Dray Yep Bike if fine without the trailer attached. I haven't tried it empty. Today I did remove the spare from the rear frame and that made no difference....think I will put it back on so it will help reduce my tougue weight. I checked the squareness of the trailer.....checked torque of nuts...boosted my rear shock to 40 lbs.......checked all tire pressures...... It feels like the shimmy is coming from under the seat for some silly reason....don't know if that makes sense or not? I'm gonna put it up on the lift tomorrow and see if my neck bearings need to be tightened....I chked them this spring and seemed ok. I did connect with a guy that has a home made trailer that lives about 30min away so I may go try his and see if I can eliminate the bike from the situation? Getting really frustrating I tell ya !! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted July 24, 2010 Share #23 Posted July 24, 2010 Just for grins Keith, measure the width of the axle, hubcap to hubcap, in inches. Then measure the distance from the ball cup of the coupler to the axle. (or center of the hubs if its a torsion axle). It should be at least 1.5 times the axle measurement. If its shorter you will have an unstable trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted July 25, 2010 Author Share #24 Posted July 25, 2010 Changes I made.... Increased trailer tire pressure to 40psi.....as recommended by Manuf of trailer in Inst Removed spare from rear mounting position Set tongue weight to be 21lbs No difference what so ever. ball cup of the coupler to the axle 57" the width of the axle - center of tire to center of tire 42" I don't suppose they shipped me the wrong tongue? By looking at the pictures on their site and inst I'm starting to suspect I have the tongue for the regular Piggy backer not the XL........there is 5" difference in the overall length......time to call the Piggy people unless someone has an XL that can measure for me. Doubt I would catch anyone today. www.piggybacker.com Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted July 25, 2010 Share #25 Posted July 25, 2010 ball cup of the coupler to the axle 57" the width of the axle - center of tire to center of tire 42" I don't suppose they shipped me the wrong tongue? By looking at the pictures on their site and inst I'm starting to suspect I have the tongue for the regular Piggy backer not the XL........there is 5" difference in the overall length......time to call the Piggy people unless someone has an XL that can measure for me. Doubt I would catch anyone today. www.piggybacker.com Keith Tongue length is too short. Unstable trailer. Period. Extend that by 10 or 12 inches at least and your problem should go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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