Paying through the hoop

[yammie]

Been a member of this great site for a number of months and enjoy coming on just about everyday to read what my fellow members are saying about the great bikes we own and ride. But finally I think I may have something to contribute or complain about or even ***** about. And that is the extra it cost us(Canadians) to accessorize our bikes. For example: I recently ordered a replacement patch cord(upper) for my RSV. Refering to the book it was $32.95 plus tax of course 14%, my dealers price was $44.00 and change. New price came in of course since the book was printed in March.

Just for S&G I checked the price of the same part in the States. $25. I know our dollar is just starting to rebound after some thirty years in the rear but price gouging seems to be the norm here in Canada. I know a easy remedy would be to order it from the US but we know what happens when we fail to support our local distributers. Also for example I just finished watching a report on how car dealers in the states are refusing to sell cagers to cross border shoppers. Not sure if this will end up in court but so much for free trade. By the way a new RSV is over $21,899 here compared to $17,599 in the States. Wish I still lived in Virginia Beach.

[KeithR]

This is an E Mail I sent to Yamaha last July and the reply they sent

 

Keith

 

 

 

QUESTION:

 

Please explain to me why accessories in Canada are 40% - 50% higher. I did

a comparison between Yamaha.com & Yamaha.ca.

 

It really encourages shopping south of the border. Which I plan to do. Being

Canadian we like to support our Canadian brothers but with pricing like

that, you are making it difficult.

 

I would really like an explanation, A lot of my fellow riders are as upset

as I am.

 

The Reply:

 

Good morning.

 

It is impossible to simply answer this type of inquiry regarding pricing

between US and Canadian products.

 

There are many variables and fluctuations and the exchange rate today is

not necessarily the rate fixed when the prices were initially negotiated.

Different import expenditures, volume purchasing (300 million vs. 32

million), and different associated costs of operating in Canada vs. the

USA. Such dilemmas are shared by Yamaha and other importers and

manufacturers.

 

We believe our prices are fair and appropriate. I regret you feel compelled

to shop in the USA. Yamaha and our dealerships try to make our prices as

competitive as possible and believe they are compatible with Canadian

competitors.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

[Midrsv]

I understand your frustration. However, it is more expensive to produce products for Canada. Products sold into Canada must be sold with dual languages on the packaging and printed material. This makes a unique sku for Canadian products so you don't have the same economies of scale for those goods. The manufacturing costs for the unique components are more expensive and the cost of any tooling required is spread over a much lower volume, about 10% of the U.S. volume. In addition, manufacturers then have to stock and plan for the unique inventory. There may be additional distribution expense due to border crossings and additional taxes. Combine that with currency exchange rates and you get the price deltas that you are experiencing.

 

DT

[hipshot]

I understand your frustration. However, it is more expensive to produce products for Canada. Products sold into Canada must be sold with dual languages on the packaging and printed material. This makes a unique sku for Canadian products so you don't have the same economies of scale for those goods. The manufacturing costs for the unique components are more expensive and the cost of any tooling required is spread over a much lower volume, about 10% of the U.S. volume. In addition, manufacturers then have to stock and plan for the unique inventory. There may be additional distribution expense due to border crossings and additional taxes. Combine that with currency exchange rates and you get the price deltas that you are experiencing.

 

DT

 

i hate to be the bearer of bad news, DT, but "dual language", should not be a factor!

everything we buy, sell, or think about here, is in a dual language , format!

english and MEXICAN!!!!!!!!!

just jt

[stardbog]

Well Probably somebody has to pay free health insurance and all social benefits You guys enjoy in Canada.

[Midrsv]

i hate to be the bearer of bad news, DT, but "dual language", should not be a factor!

everything we buy, sell, or think about here, is in a dual language , format!

english and MEXICAN!!!!!!!!!

just jt

 

You are correct, some things are dual language in the U.S. But for Canada you would have to add French to those items. That still makes it unique. Or you create a trilingual product. As an example, you have 2 languages that create a 100 page users manual, add French for a 3rd language and another 50 pages and that drives the cost up on 90% of the volume for that doesn't go to Canada. I don't like paying for those extra pages in Spanish as it is now.

 

DT

[KiteSquid]

I understand your frustration. However, it is more expensive to produce products for Canada. Products sold into Canada must be sold with dual languages on the packaging and printed material. This makes a unique sku for Canadian products so you don't have the same economies of scale for those goods. The manufacturing costs for the unique components are more expensive and the cost of any tooling required is spread over a much lower volume, about 10% of the U.S. volume. In addition, manufacturers then have to stock and plan for the unique inventory. There may be additional distribution expense due to border crossings and additional taxes. Combine that with currency exchange rates and you get the price deltas that you are experiencing.

 

DT

 

The multiple language thing is fallout from NAFTA.

 

We are seeing it more and more on US packaging....

[Gary N.]

Well Probably somebody has to pay free health insurance and all social benefits You guys enjoy in Canada.

 

Nothing is really "FREE" Dan. Over 50% of our pay cheques go for taxes of some sort. Income, property, sales tax, health care, etc., etc.

 

As far as social benefits,, I wish someone would tell me what these are. It's easier for somebody to arrive at our boarder, claim he's a refugee and get all kinds of help ($$$) than it is for a tax paying citizen. In recent years the gov't. has downloaded everything back to regional and local gov'ts. and it's becoming a user pay system. I'm not totally against this but my tax bill hasn't gotten any lower.

 

I love this country and don't think I'd want to live anywhere else (except in the winter) but it's not the utopia some people seem to think it is.

 

I'm done now.

[sarges46]

Actually that answer seems typical from a big business. Blame it on "variables" this and that. Me thinks it boils down to pricing set when the dollars was at 50% or close to that.

 

My repairs on my bike cost around 2000 bucks and I know for sure I could have got the parts much much cheaper if ordered from the US.

 

In fact I asked my dealer to order me a clearview tinted shield with a vent because the cost was less than a new shield from Yammy here. He didnt of course because the insurance will only pay for OEM with exception of the foot pegs.

[Condor]

I love this country and don't think I'd want to live anywhere else (except in the winter) but it's not the utopia some people seem to think it is.I'm done now.

 

I ship goods to Canada all the time and I think the biggest reason for the increase in retails over domestic (US) is import and customs duties. Plus agent fees that are tacked on to the top of that. I can send a heavy boat part coast to coast via USPS Priority Flat Rate for around $9 bucks and it takes 3 days max. Send a boat part to Vancouver and it cost an arm and leg. I just sent a 1lb 9oz package to Ontario and it ran $17.00. That same package sent to Florida..... $4.55. So i think we can blame the Canadain government's 'Mordita' for a lot of the difference in retails..... As far as blaming multiple language wording on product documents, it's a non-issue. This is the computor age and printing is dirt cheap. My 2¢

[Gary N.]

I ship goods to Canada all the time and I think the biggest reason for the increase in retails over domestic (US) is import and customs duties. Plus agent fees that are tacked on to the top of that. I can send a heavy boat part coast to coast via USPS Priority Flat Rate for around $9 bucks and it takes 3 days max. Send a boat part to Vancouver and it cost an arm and leg. I just sent a 1lb 9oz package to Ontario and it ran $17.00. That same package sent to Florida..... $4.55. So i think we can blame the Canadain government's 'Mordita' for a lot of the difference in retails..... As far as blaming multiple language wording on product documents, it's a non-issue. This is the computor age and printing is dirt cheap. My 2¢

 

I don't know what "Mordita" is????

But I do know on most items purchased in the U.S. THERE IS NO "CUSTOMS DUTY" or "IMPORT FEES". NAFTA eliminated most duties. That's part of the reason we're losing most of our mfg. jobs to Mexico, China etc. but that's another topic.

If you are shipping via UPS, FedEx or some other courier than the buyer is having to pay their (UPS, FedEx etc.) brokerage fees plus provincial and federal sales taxes. The sales taxes are paid at the retail point of purchase or if you're importing than you pay either at the border or post office or courier depending on how you bring it in.

USPS still remains the least expensive way to have anything shipped from the States.

 

[SilvrT]

Nothing is really "FREE" Dan. Over 50% of our pay cheques go for taxes of some sort. Income, property, sales tax, health care, etc., etc.

 

As far as social benefits,, I wish someone would tell me what these are. It's easier for somebody to arrive at our boarder, claim he's a refugee and get all kinds of help ($$$) than it is for a tax paying citizen. In recent years the gov't. has downloaded everything back to regional and local gov'ts. and it's becoming a user pay system. I'm not totally against this but my tax bill hasn't gotten any lower.

 

I love this country and don't think I'd want to live anywhere else (except in the winter) but it's not the utopia some people seem to think it is.

 

I'm done now.

 

DITTO ALL OF THE ABOVE!

 

And I won't say any more coz I can feel the hair on my neck starting to stand up (and I don't have any hair there).

[Condor]

I don't know what "Mordita" is????

 

It's understandable if you have never been south of the real border, Mordita is a way of life in Mexico. They speak another language there, and every one has their hand in your wallet, from the bus boy to the police chief.... How much shipping do you deal with on a daily basis? Most of my customers are still dealing with customs and agents. NAFTA's a joke, and blaming it for the loss of manufacturing jobs to the US is just as funny. Ever heard of 'Hecho en Mexico'?

[Redneck]

Nothing is really "FREE" Dan. Over 50% of our pay cheques go for taxes of some sort. Income, property, sales tax, health care, etc., etc.

 

As far as social benefits,, I wish someone would tell me what these are. It's easier for somebody to arrive at our boarder, claim he's a refugee and get all kinds of help ($$$) than it is for a tax paying citizen. In recent years the gov't. has downloaded everything back to regional and local gov'ts. and it's becoming a user pay system. I'm not totally against this but my tax bill hasn't gotten any lower.

 

I love this country and don't think I'd want to live anywhere else (except in the winter) but it's not the utopia some people seem to think it is.

 

I'm done now.

Don't feel too bad in the u.s our taxes are over 50% as well and everything is user pay unless you waded across the river them everything is free. The only real difference is we still have the right to own guns.

[Gary N.]

It's understandable if you have never been south of the real border, Mordita is a way of life in Mexico. They speak another language there, and every one has their hand in your wallet, from the bus boy to the police chief.... How much shipping do you deal with on a daily basis? Most of my customers are still dealing with customs and agents. NAFTA's a joke, and blaming it for the loss of manufacturing jobs to the US is just as funny. Ever heard of 'Hecho en Mexico'?

 

I feel a pissing contest coming on so I'm not going there. Please go back and read what I wrote.

[yammie]

Just something that CBC(national news) was covering today. Take a look and see what you think guys

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2007/09/2b_lawsuit_accuses_car_makers.html

[Squeeze]

Hi,

 

from my Point of View these different Prices for imported Goods are just pure Capitalism. If you ship from Japan or from Europe, what the Hell is the Difference of Shipping Cost of Containers between US and Canada ? 3 Percent, 5 or maybe 8 ....

 

Ok, there might be different Taxes and Customs Rates, but this does not explain the huge Spread. Also the Excange Rates are a Factor, but the most global Players have these inherent Risk insured.

 

In other Words, the Canadian have more Money, so they can pay more ...

 

 

Speaking about Prices, i can tell you, i can have a 15 Percent Discount from a Yammi Parts Dealer in the U.S. Pay by Credit Card and pay the not so cheap Shipping to Germany, pay 10 Percent Customs and 19 Percent VAT on both, Price and Customs and still be about 15 Percent cheaper than the same Part would cost me here at a local Yammi-Dealer ...

 

e.g.

The Part's Price is 115.00 USD, -15 USD Discount, makes it plain 100 USD. Shipping is 48 USD. When the Parcel arrives here, Customs call for...

10 Percent Customs on 148, thats 14.80 USD, 19 Percent VAT on 148.00+14.80 is 30.92 USD makes the Total 193.73 USD. Exchanged in Euro this is around 122.00 Euro. Local Price for the same Part is around 145.00 Euros.

 

I asked my Dealers twice about that, they can't explain that, only Thing, i got a 10 Percent Discount from that on ... now, that's 5 Percent for aiding my local Stealer ...

[Gary N.]

This is all nothing new. I've lived near a border town all my life and I'm old enough to remember when the U.S. dollar was worth only $0.95 CDN. The Americans would come in the gas station where I was working and cry like babies because our gas was 0.45 / IMP gallon and I had to discount their dollars 5%. Their gas at home was about 0.25 / U.S. gallon I think.

I remember my grandmother taking the tunnel bus to go shop at Hudson's in Detroit. My Dad said she did this even back in the '30s.

The price of cars in the U.S. back in the '60s was 25% to 50% less than here.

Most things have always been more money in Canada. I think as long as we all are willing to bend over and take it we'll continue to pay more.

I won't be buying any new cars or bikes but I do need a new roof. I wonder if any of those Mexicans now running our border know how to do roofing? May as well put a few more Canadians out of work.

[SilvrT]

In other Words, the Canadian have more Money, so they can pay more ...

 

Well I'm sure this will open up a "debatable can of worms" but... I believe if anyone checks the statistics, they will quickly see that, in comparison to the USA, the above statement is totally blatant. The median household income in the US is higher than that of Canada while at the same time, the cost of many things in Canada is much higher. What that equates to, to me, is that in general, folks in the US have more money to spend.

 

 

:witch_brew:

[Squeeze]

Well I'm sure this will open up a "debatable can of worms" but... I believe if anyone checks the statistics, they will quickly see that, in comparison to the USA, the above statement is totally blatant. The median household income in the US is higher than that of Canada while at the same time, the cost of many things in Canada is much higher. What that equates to, to me, is that in general, folks in the US have more money to spend.

 

 

:witch_brew:

 

 

Hey, i don't want to open a Can of Worms, nor do i second the Statement.

 

It's just the Way they handle this. I really do not know how much a US Citizen has to spend, nor a canadian Citizen. All i did want to say, is the Market makes the Price. If Yammi is able to earn 3000 USD on a Bike in US or 5000 CND in Canada, that just plain what they do. They can sell their Bikes at the best Prices they are able to get from the Customers. They all want our Best ....

 

our CASH !!!!

 

They raise the Price because the Folks paying the Price they ask. Period.

Why shouldn't they do so ?? This is how the System works. You can complain about that and just not buy anything what appears overpriced in your Opinion, but what else can you do ?

[SilvrT]

Just something that CBC(national news) was covering today. Take a look and see what you think guys

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2007/09/2b_lawsuit_accuses_car_makers.html

 

A very interesting read. My neighbor just recently bought a new Toyota truck. He saved over $8000 by purchasing in US. After reading that thread and what my neighbor told me, all the more reason to SERIOUSLY consider purchasing my next "yammie" south of the border.

[WilCruise]

While I'm sure there are a variety of things that contribute to it I tend to be suspicious of conspiracy theories. Having grown up in the retail business for over 30 years I've seen first hand how it's virtually impossible to keep track of currency rates, import overhead / tariffs, handling costs and other factors in an ongoing basis.

 

Typically there is a point in time (usually annually) that pricing is set vs. currency rates and other costs. The real rates always fluctuate more frequently. There will be times when the roles will be reversed on pricing. I've seen this personally over the years as I travel regularly to Canada and Europe with my work. Technology still hasn't advanced enough to stay on top of this and keep pricing consistent internationally despite what you may think.

 

So, although I understand that it doesn't explain pricing discrepancies in their entirety, and it's not a completely satisfying answer, there is quite a bit of truth to the answer you got.