elag Posted September 1, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 1, 2009 Having starting problems. More when the engine is hot. I've noticed that the lights are brighter when engine if reved then at idol. When engine is hot starter drags and sometimes won't turn over at all. Booster pack will make it spin and start with no problem. Just wondering if this sounds like the battery is cooked or if the stator is getting bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83VR3711 Posted September 1, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 1, 2009 Have you done the upgrade on the battery cables yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elag Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted September 1, 2009 Yes up to 4 guage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camos Posted September 1, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 1, 2009 How long ago did you upgrade the cables. Seems like a case of corroded and/or dirty connections, not necessarily just from/to the battery. Go over the starter circuit, charging circuit, ignition circuit and TCI connectors with contact cleaner and a green scrubby. Put them back together and coat with dielectric grease or silicon spray. I would suggest doing that and checking the cells with a hydrometer before considering battery replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elag Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted September 1, 2009 Cable upgrade was done this week. When I put my booster pack on it starts fine. This is what is leading me to think it's the battery. But when it cools down it starts fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted September 1, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 1, 2009 If you are going to change the battery, and it sounds like you should, look at some of the batteries like the Oddesy. I replaced mine with an Oddesy and feel much more confident about hot starts. So far it is working great. RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted September 1, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 1, 2009 Don't know if an Odessey is available in Ontario, but I bought my gel battery at TSC and am plenty happy with it. Lots of power and it don't leak. The other thing you can look at is to install a ground cable from the engine to the frame. There seems to be a lack of those in our machines and that quite often helps with all the starting and charging issues. And as mentioned, make sure all connections are super clean, and tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard765 Posted September 1, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 1, 2009 I bought my Odyssey battery in Hamilton on Parkdale Ave. It made a big difference for me. Some people have changed to a starter from a Vmax. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elag Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted September 1, 2009 Don't know if an Odessey is available in Ontario, but I bought my gel battery at TSC and am plenty happy with it. Lots of power and it don't leak. The other thing you can look at is to install a ground cable from the engine to the frame. There seems to be a lack of those in our machines and that quite often helps with all the starting and charging issues. And as mentioned, make sure all connections are super clean, and tight. Never thought of TSC. Good to know since I am not a fan of C Tire batteries. Yes I did do both the positive wire and ground in 4 guage. Ground right to a mounting bolt on the starter as well as to the frame. If you can remember the model number of the battery you have can you let me know. Thanks Carl I bought my Odyssey battery in Hamilton on Parkdale Ave. It made a big difference for me. Some people have changed to a starter from a Vmax. Wayne Thanks Wayne. Same case, if you can remember the battery model number please post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard765 Posted September 1, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 1, 2009 The model number of the Odyssey for the 1st gen is PC-680. I paid $150 for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted September 1, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 1, 2009 Your battery is going bad. The Odyssey AGM PC680 will work fine, but you might try looking at a DEKA which has the same foot print as the OEM Yuasa. The Odysseys are smaller and need to be 'shimed' in the battery box. The DEKA AGM also puts out more CC's than the Ody, and is has a better price. I bought a DEKA to try and it's performing great.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted September 1, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 1, 2009 Odyssey, or there is one other brand, AGM technology, dry cell type batteries. Check with "Condor " concerning the other brand. They cost more, but have about 3 time the Cold Cranking Amps, of lead acid type's. I have 2 installed in my 89, one quick touch of the button, and engine is running !! Makes no diff, hot or cold. ( just a little choke when cold ) Also, check out all the Wireing connections, in your 15 Amp, Ignition Circuit. Especialy, check the Resistance across the Run-Stop Switch, and remove the plugs from the TCI, and Clean the Connectors. Also, inspect the 15 Amp, Ignnition fuse Holder, for corroded, or loose connections of the fuse. Also, find the " Pressure Sensor " located above and forward of the #2 Carb. Remove the rubber boot, and Clean the Electrical pins on this unit. It is feed voltage from the " ingnition fuse also " Why??? Any dirty or corroded connections, downline from the Ignition fuse, will inject Series Resistance in the circuit, and cause Voltage Drop to the TCI Unit. Not Good. I know of one case where a total of 23 Ohms of series resistance, was found, which effectivly dropped to voltage to the TCI, to about 5 volts, ie: Engine would not start. There about 6 Items, being fed voltage from that one 15 Amp fuse. TCI, Fuel pump, fuel pump relay, Cruz control system, pressure sensor, and all 4 ignition coils. All these items are powered by that one fuse !!! I reccomend on these old bikes, to open and Clean the connectors on ALL of the Electrical plugs, on the Entire Bike. Takes about 4 hours of work, and well worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted September 1, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 1, 2009 To add a little to what George has stated, if your bike has the old fuse box, you need to change it out and it is easy and cheap to do. Also, on the left side of your bike under the side panel, the connection from the Regulator/rectifier needs to be cleaned and the crimp on the terminals tightened. This also applies to connector for the three stator connections. On the stator connections, many people bypass the connection and solder the wires together. RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camos Posted September 1, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 1, 2009 I reccomend on these old bikes, to open and Clean the connectors on ALL of the Electrical plugs, on the Entire Bike. Takes about 4 hours of work, and well worth the effort. This is the first thing that should be done when experiencing any possible electrical malfunction before chasing individual components. The stock wiring is adequate only if all connections are functioning well. Adding a second or more grounds could help but is essentially just treating a symptom that could also be treated by cleaning the original. Upgrading to a larger wire gauge is definitely a good idea but is not necessary and what it mostly does is give clean connections which can be attained without spending any money. I can't remember the number of times I have seen people chasing/replacing "faulty" components like plugs, coils, carbs, stator, R/R and the TCI with no lasting solution to the problem. Eventually finding a bad connection to one of those components was the real culprit. Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Posted September 1, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 1, 2009 Your battery is going bad. The Odyssey AGM PC680 will work fine, but you might try looking at a DEKA which has the same foot print as the OEM Yuasa. The Odysseys are smaller and need to be 'shimed' in the battery box. The DEKA AGM also puts out more CC's than the Ody, and is has a better price. I bought a DEKA to try and it's performing great.... What he said. DEKA battery solved all of my hot start problems. (I already had the cable upgrade) Good price and great performer. I will definitely buy another one when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaggletooth Posted September 1, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 1, 2009 Check out this thread for a good discussion on batteries. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33375&highlight=deka But I'm gonna tell you THE battery to get is the DEKA ETX18L. It's an AGM and the same foot print as the orginal battery and out performs the PC680. This post was from Josh at Bohannon Battery, a member here. "I put a load test on 2 different PC680 and ETX18L. First test: 1. PC680 drawn down to 9.5V with Carbon Pile Load Tester, 390CCA 2. ETX18L drawn down to 9.5V with Carbon Pile Load Tester, 650 CCA Second test: 1. PC680 drawn down to 9.5V with Carbon Pile Load Tester, 400CCA 2. ETX18L drawn down to 9.5V with Carbon Pile Load Tester, 700 CCA The first and second test were performed using different batteries. Both sets of batteries were initially charged with a 500mAH automatic charger, then left to sit for 14 days, not connected to the charger. Given this information I would without a doubt choose the ETX18L over the PC680." Condor bought one, then myself and I think Ozark did to. Maybe more of the guys here did to. I've got to tell you, the battery shipped was $82.95. By far the cheapest battery I ever bought and by far the best performing battery I have ever owned. Time comes for a new one, I don't expect that to be anytime soon, I'll buy a DEKA ETX18L again. This battery has solved ALL my starting problems, hot or cold. Always 12.8 volts on the digital meter EVERYTIME I hit the switch. It's been 6 months since I installed mine and I ride everyday. Everytime I check the battery it show at 100% charge. Check out Joshs web site and tell him Snaggletooth sent ya. http://www.bohannonbattery.com/html/deka.html Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted September 2, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 2, 2009 But I'm gonna tell you THE battery to get is the DEKA ETX18L. It's an AGM and the same foot print as the orginal battery and out performs the PC680. This post was from Josh at Bohannon Battery, a member here. AMEN Brother!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncledj Posted September 2, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 2, 2009 What made the difference for me was pulling and cleaning the starter. You may well find that the stator? is crudded up. Pull the starter apart and clean the stator with a scotchbrite pad, put a small dab of grease on the end of the shaft and re-install. Many suggest replacing the brushes, but I didn't see any reason to. It still turns a bit slower when it's HOT, but is significantly better than before. Takes two or three hours to do, but it was well worth it for me. (still have original battery cables) Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elag Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks guys. Will check all connections. Probably clean starter too. And will check availability of these battery brands locally. May have to live with carrying the booster pack in the side bag for a while. Anyone think it will cause problems with the charging system if not done for a couple of weeks? Time to work on it is the main factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted September 2, 2009 Share #20 Posted September 2, 2009 Also, check the AC Voltage Output, of each of the 3 Phases from the STATOR. At the large plug from Stator, going to the Regulator, Use AC Scale on your Volt/Ohm meter, At about 2000 RPM, you should read the SAME AC voltage on the 3 pins going thru that plug. Might be 5 to 10 Volts, AC. Exact voltge not to important, just make sure All three phase's are about the same, within + or - 1 volt AC. IF--- One Phase is substantially lower the other two, you Stator is Failing. Before you do this check, Examine the 3 wire plug Pins, make sure NO DAMAGED PINS!!!! Those plugs are a Known Trouble Spot !!! If plug is bad, cut it out, and splice the wires together. Solder the new splice, and use shrink tubing for insulation over the new splice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted September 2, 2009 Share #21 Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks guys. Will check all connections. Probably clean starter too. And will check availability of these battery brands locally. May have to live with carrying the booster pack in the side bag for a while. Anyone think it will cause problems with the charging system if not done for a couple of weeks? Time to work on it is the main factor. You can also have it shipped here and pick it up! Great riding country down here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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