Patch

Forgive me for looking at the other side of the coin Cha but, I know you have been burning midnight oil for a couple days, perhaps if you can a little rest will do some good.

I found that once I had my front suspension worked out and lowering the front pressure I seemed to loose the top heavy feeling at the lights.

The calibration is set via the recoil! This is set to above normal idle generated vacuum. It just takes a sudden closing of the throttle from high rpms to cause the spring to give, open the passage and then to close off again at normal pressures. What I said was, is that the bike does not have to be moving for the coasting cycle to kick in.

I'll mention a couple of other notes here for you to consider. One the compression you posted is high there is no denying this but, not as high at it may actually be. The reason for the high numbers is due to the carbon build but lets not forget that the engine sat for 3 years and as I've shown before here on the site and others, you can not stop gravity from setting the rings deep into the landings! In other words, remove via magic the carbon, your numbers would most likely be low! A year or so ago we have a member that posted he needed to turn his set screw out 4 plus turns and what appeared to be a sudden and unexpected result! After posting his compression numbers we could see that they too were too high for his model! See what I'm saying about the carbon effects. Ok this isn't adding for me how you are balancing your carbs. 1st the bench sync needs to be equal and approximately where I mentioned. 2nd a quick hunt for highest rpm per pilot screw then back 1/8th 3rd you must reset idle, then not sure where you balance off of 12 or 1500 and if you match front and rear (I use an uncommon tool and I set the bikes for how they're to be driven) 4th reset idle then reset mixture Taking for granted that the air box is on and I prefer the filter and lid in place (as it will be when on the road) And that the throttle cable is properly set. Now if you can't maintain idle then how are you balancing? You can't be running the enricher? Some more on the lean: These coasting are bypassed for lack of a better word; the passages are block, you are trying to blip the throttle - first the air box needs to be installed with the velocity stacks and for the heck of this problem place the lid on, these CV count on velocity and an organized stream above the slides at velocity! Next each time you blip then chop the throttle even off the stand (not moving) you create a lean condition which will appear as a stumble, because the coasting valve is bypassed; so you will need to allow for it to recover before blipping again or you prolong the stumble! Hope this helps clear up some missing explanations Patch

My thoughts as well.

Of course he does, it makes look taller;)

So you've asked quite a few questions and I am for the moment just going to sum things up. This is as I see it and you'll likely catch on as to why I wanted the timing angle! 1st) reading compression at 5 and 10 is a better way then only knowing the maximum numbers. For those of us that raced or had to decide whether to do a tare down or wait is often followed by a leak down test which more or less suggests roughly how bad or how far and how much we're in for. Now your 180's at 5 seems nice but not for these chambers, 200 +- at the end tells us what is going on and why the carbs are not wanting to dial in; in fact and for the moment the carbs should be put aside. Angle of ignition is a teltale and it seemed obvious as I made the leap with you that the carbs were now in reasonable order! One thing I always appreciate about Puc joining a conversation in troubleshooting is that he causes me to check for cracks where least expected or want to venture his stubbornness really makes me dig! In more cases then not and tho we stay in our respective dimensions and in this case as well we are both viewing multiple ignition problems tho thru different lenses! The carbon question isn't an easy one but it can cause angle issues as it relates to crank angles and ignition and refereed to as preignition which means wrong angle and wrong ignition timing! So lets just except that. The coasting valve question is base on plus or minus atmosphere; meaning one pulls and so the other pushes. The velocity at the throttle plate when chopped or at idle is highest when chopped, so any porting exposed will experience low pressure or a psiphon effect! The psiphoning is stalled when atmosphere is is cutoff and is why these fuel systems are vented and so that is what the coasting circuit does it switches on/off, allows for atmospheric pressure to flow above the charged fuel port just above the 2 pilot ports, at least usually. Summing it up the 3 to 5 turn plus choke suggested that the metric was too high and we know that the throttle plates can not be in the correct or expected position, you just think they are. The carbon in the chamber is at low speed when cool soaking the droplets and producing a low combustion heat for a couple of reasons; it can't transfer heat well and then once hot it glows where it is flaky or thin, which gives you the preignition. 199 psi I believe is the max and recomended tare down mark, (that in no way suggests it is OK to run that high, it is the end of the line). Not something I suspect most of us want to do so what are the options? Well Ajay and were working on a Kat some years back, something we have lots of parts for, I pulled an engine off the shelve which read 188 by 4 so hey lets swap! Well it had been sitting round for some years so I did my "fogging" trick and low and behold after sitting for 2 days 166 psi DANG what a bummer eh! Was it a bad move? Nope if I had taken our setup and run it on that engine I would have had it back in chasing my tail trying to figure where I went wrong! In 17 we had a venture high on 4, right at the limit however when I started working on her, her numbers were allover the place and sure enough it explained all the busted pieces that made up the carbs; see, the fellow kept blaming the carbs for the troubles when in fact is was the air pump its self! Now getting the low ones up was easy but the high on down, not so much. The problem with chamber carbon is that it is very abrasive so removing it is double edged. It takes a lot of flushing to get it out of the engine, so here is what you can do or try... Pull the carbs pull the plugs they stay out 2 cans of Deep Creep Fill the close intake port with the spray then move to the jugs and spray each one for about 5 give or take seconds let soak for a day and repeat like the fogging thread says But each time and before you refill the jugs take a long neck air gun/duster and drop it about an inch below the plug threads and blast away using a bunched rag around the nozzle to deflect the crap being forced up "don't try to prevent it from leaving the jug, refill then rotate the crank by hand and repeat till you have done all 4 jugs and intake valves! Remember the open intakes will blow out as well so lay a heavy rag/towel across them. Finally clean up, spray a touch of crab cleaner down each let sit then blow out again. I would then change the oil with cheap stuff but a good filter, run it till warm and repeat with fresh oil; you don't want that carbon floating around the crankcase! I would make sure that the carbs are in proper working order before reinstalling them no patches and also that the choke cable isn't too tight, I prefer a a minimum deflection on the cable or a mm or 2 depending on what set I'm working on. Patch

NO! But its your bike and your choice! I wrote a breakdown to your last post and I'll post it shortly. Best of luck to you Patch

Great let me think on it a bit but the compression I know is too high and is a problem! Have you checked out "a case for fogging" ?

OH we can be "Ducks" too but you know its kinda like we all sleep in the same bunkhouse so we just got's to figure a way to turn the squabble into a pillow fight till that is; Dad (the fellow above) yells across the farm yard, turns the bunkhouse breaker off just when the squabble gets interesting and without further warning;) stick around you'll see! Of course if you haven't visited North American early style settlements you likely haven't a clue to this picture I painted? And true enough we do enjoy a newbie stumbling in with what only appears to be a problem and us, being the civil mature X everythin we just naturally likes to help folks! It's just what Duckheads like us do! Speaking of Scotland, now just the past month or so we had the opportunity to help out a nice fellow from the Highlands; why he was so grateful he wished upon us many Highland expressions, thanks and good wishes (we think) guessing the forums out that way just don't speak a courteous Duck? hmm Well welcome to the Hotel California its a lovely space! Patch

Wow you're quick on the draw today:)

Yep, and only one horse to ride out and save em with, hmm hmm. It sure must be tough being you, and that poor old horse too;)

Jeez I remember when spam came in a can and spammers by the thousands were only found once a year at beer festivals served by heavy set mamas! Things just aren't the same anymo): Haven't you heard Saddlebum we all voted and have decided to roll back to Windows 7... You are so not with it! Are you still out riding fences...

I know you responded not sure which thread you're on, I'll just stick to this one. So over the years I have worked on many such projects either dropped here at my little shop or asked to stop by another. The secret to troubleshooting is logic, regardless of our past experiences we have to zero in to factory bench marks; that is why I ask for compression then and in this case the shortcut of what is the actual time mark at idle - the advance connected then not connected and port stubbed off. In your explanations you claim lean conditions but,, other than turns you aren't backing the claim with pipe temperature reading or any of the other typical signals that point to it? So what might be going on? Well for one you are wasting fuel in the sense that you are getting to little return for the metric you are assigning! I assume the intake seals are not leaking? I assume the carb to intake seals are in good order and not missing bits? I assume you are not attempting to throttle with the box and V-stacks off the carb setup? First quarter is pilot but,,, pulsed via main needle, velocity is critical below and above the venturie. Vacuum is cannot be taken for granted so, the plates in the correct position increases vacuum build and velocity providing the vacuum generator meets spec and is withing differentials. Carbon on the piston crowns reduces heat tho your compression readings may be higher as a consequence of it being there; this causes a high fuel metric but wastes 1/2 of it and yet requires that metric to run! You say she runs well when up and off the needle but that too is a double edge cause she could be igniting off the carbon glow, not being under constant load you may not know the preignition is present! Then there is the opposite to the above which is low compression or a mix of the two; and is why we need to know the compression first then rule on the rest! Timing for me would be next because it points to angle and that can save a lot of time putzing about..

Jeremy, there is a reason for the timing port, you did not answer the question? It can save time knowing! The CV carbs need to be balanced from one end to the other, your first attempt was short of predictability and had to be addressed and corrected. Now you coasting circuits can also create a lean condition. OK now for some nuts and bolts: CV carbs are all about pressure differentials you must bench sync the throttles, chasing afterwords is a foolserrand, then you you sync them into synchronization as per pressure results based on jug to jug! Any port that is subject to pressure change will produce fuel problems, especially venting ports! Get the carbs in order, check voltage at the coils, check timing mark, check coil output with gap tool. Patch (pick a post/thread)

What on the list below has changed? Do you know how to check the timing position? SYMPTOMS - Lean idle and just off-idle 1) Very dependent on choke for good throttle response until it's really good and hot. I'm in Tucson, so I mean HOT! 2) Pilot screws are set at ridiculous settings for best idle - two carbs at 5 turns, and two at 3 turns. Before the rebuild, I had tuned them at some point in the distant past and they were all at or under 2 turns. 3) Even when it's hot and taking throttle, standing start with the clutch still doesn't feel quite right, a little hesitant. Before it's hot, if I try to take off quick with say 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, it drops cylinders / misfires for a second or so. 4) Runs smooth and goes like a bat out of hell once in the mid-range and upper RPMs. Man, this is a nice riding bike. 5) It wasn't acting like this before I took the carbs off.

Are you saying that you went thru the carbs as we mentioned, completely and the bike still won't hold idle without the choke or transition smoothly past a 1/4 throttle?

SO, 20 days kid since we heard from you last! Not that I am counting or care what or where, nor for the new rubber you are wearing out BUT, just in case Carl PM'd you his "touring dessert book" which will wear thru many bikes not just tires before you get to the last page and number.... Would you mind letting us know how you are doing? Patch

Here you go;)

That is correct Blue; the intakes are usually 3 layers, the outer layer being a rubber protection only. A 20 year old bike with just 27K likely is suffering blocked pilot jets. When the jets are plugged solid ,it is unlikely to clear them with just the use of carb cleaners. If there was a vacuum leak we would expect higher rpms and wildish rpm racing when releasing the throttle! Patch

So I had some time and looked it up, guess it is a tool for the site against bots. Here's the link https://www.google.com/recaptcha/intro/v3.html

I've been away most of the weekend just looking at the new posts and bottom right hand corner, a 1"sg. logal in the shape of a grey & blue arrow saying "Privacy-Terms" it seem to be baiting for a click..

Off topic, "pop ups" I don't get them anymore on youtube or anywhere. hmm

If you are asking how your bike is doing based on speed @ rpm then its like Marcarl whispered. Now if you want too know if you're running a performance machine or a rocking chair then we need to know compression numbers, peek at her plugs, temperatures (give or take) at the headers,,,, Know what I mean? Patch