Polaris did a very nice job in the detail on the new line. The question
has come many times of design "sharing" going on between Victory and Indian lines
with Polaris (being both owned by one company). Except for the fairing on
the Cheiftain, I honestly could see NONE! Looking at the detail
of the bikes and riding them proved to me that the Indian project was a ground up build
for Polaris.
Detail was awesome, I liked the old school coloring - paint was well done
in all colors, chrome appears very high quality in all areas, old school
dash on the Vintage and Chief Classic were really neat in appearance -
although I did find the amount of chrome in the dash/headlight area created
a terrible reflection on the windshield (quick disconnect) if used. I
thought the gauges in the fairing on the Chieftain were kinda cheezy BUT
the audio system was awesome!! Layout of the bar controls was very well
done, I really liked the bars although would find out later that I actually
needed 2 inches longer to get comfortable in my "normal" riding position. I
personally have always liked the brown leather on the Indians, come to find
out the same company that has always made these is still making them!! Leather
appeared high quality and detailed nicely. I have always liked spoked
wheels and really liked where they went with these. You can also get
aluminum wheels, they looked great but I liked the spokes..
While out at Sturgis this year, one of the things that I caught onto
at the unveiling was Polaris's marketing campain and the words
"Choice is here". When I first saw this
slogan at Sturgis I commented to Tippy and said "I wonder how the Victory
guys are gonna take that".. I found out later that this really didnt go
over very big, the Victory guys were actually insulted by this.. I had a
chance before the ride to chat with a Polaris rep about it and was told
that the Indian brand they are producing is aimed right at HD buyers. He
also told me that their Victory brand was going to become (I guess there
are lots of changes coming in the Victory too) their shot at the metric
industry..
This conversation gave me, a nobody test rider who does this stuff
cause I love motorcycles am nosey and love having a real opinion, a
basis of comparison of the bikes I was about to ride. Besides, I knew I would be
disappointed if this new line didnt compare to the old Yam Venture molded to my backside . I have owned a number of HD's thru the years, have put a fair
amount of time on them - both wrenching and riding.
Tippy and I climbed on the Chieftain. Other than the rear peg placement
(to high and to far rearward for her) she instantly commented on the
Indians seat being more comfortable than the Stock HD Ultra, I totally
agreed. I found the bike to be roomier both for legs and arm placement..
The HD has way more room in the rear rider area for moving around - at this
time there is NO tour pack on the Indian - it will be interesting to see
where/how the tourpac sets when they finally come out.. Tippy and I are
unusual in the point of really not liking to be separated when riding. I
know LOTS of folks that love the HD's for this but truthfully, we enjoy the
old "chopper feel" of - her against a backrest-me against her, the Indian
does this nicely. For me - it does lack in handlebar length by about 2
inches and given all that internal wiring and adding cable length l gotta
hunch this is not an immediate offering from Polaris. I LOVED the
adjustable windshield on the fairing of the Chieftain, it worked
perfectly!! Having ridden the new HD Ultra, one of which had a low cut
shield AND the upward venting, makes it very difficult to say which I would
prefer,, I almost go with the short and venting but ONLY because of the
simplicity.. On the same note though, I really wonder what that vent would
do in the rain - remember, you gotta keep the vent open to force airflow
over the head of the passenger - close it and you lose air flow height...
I really like the adjustable shield!!
Performance was, again in my opinion, not impressive.. After twisting the
throttle from idle to rev limiter on the stock Chieftain all I could say to
Tippy was I needed to ride the "Stage One" Classic they had.. I am thinking
that if, again I say if, the 111 inch motor produces 119 pounds of torque
it HAS to be a crank measurement.. I have never thought much of what HD
turns out in their stock bike performances (any of them,, except for the
V-Rod) and this Indian is right on par in my opinion - maybe a little more
go power.. On the same token though, I remember riding the HD 103 back to
back with the HD Screamin Eagle 110 CVO and my seat of the pants told me
the 103 was a stronger pull than the 110 - my buddies about scalped me for
that so what do I know.. I just gotta a sneakin hunch that compared to the
HD 110 - yea the 111 has it, compared to the 103 - could be more
interesting.. Compared to my old 83 Yamaha V-4,,,,, oh I wasnt gonna go
there...
It was a VERY smooth ride!! Tippy said "because it doesnt shake like a HD
does that mean less parts are likely to viborate off (something we have
experienced first hand)?" to which I replied - yep, locktite company could
be in trouble Seriously it was that smooth. Of course, there are droves of people that need that good ol HD shaking front wheel/engine or life aint right - dont buy a new Indian if your one of these folks!
I was told that the tranny smoothness was beyond belief - like almost not even noticeable shifting in a spooky kinda way.. I did not find this to be true.. I did
find it to a lot less clunky in feel to the HD tranny and very smooth in
operation in a precise way but not without "feeling" as I had been told.. I
did find all the issues with finding neutral at a stop associated with HD's
trannys were never a problem on the Indian. Sixth gear in the indian was
very tall and we riders were warned to only engage it at 70 or above.. If
you know me you know I had to test that,, because of its torque it handles
45 and above in 6th with two riders - below that, yea,, not good.
FLOGGING this thing is a nightmare!! It is very slow in its steering.. I
have a hunch the bike is longer, more rake, more trail than the HD line..
It doesnt like to be tossed around, it wants to fight back and go straight
or take lazy corners.. I ran it up 90 on an interstate exit to attempt a
decent lean and didnt "feel" the agreement happening between me and the
bike so I didnt push it.. I have ridden MANY hours on HD Road Kings and
have always liked their cornering abilitly, they are really a handling pile
of steel... I just didnt get this from the Indian,, smooth - YES, lenier
in its power delivery - YES, GREAT BRAKES - YES, stable on the highway -
YES, let go of the bars and relax at speed - YOU BET but twisties - not so
much..
The stage one on the Classic (its the one in the pics with the single seat
and backrest) did help.. Not sure what the gain actually was but it
certainly was evident.. All the stage 1 amounts to is pipes.. If you have
ever owned an HD and tossed on a set of pipes (man they are choked down
terribly) you can relate to the difference in the Indians case - pretty
much apples for apples..Dont know why but the Classic and the Vintage rev
limited at 4 and the Chieftain at 5. Engines were all the same.. The
engine/tranny on the new Indians are one unit, not like the separate units
like the old Indians and the Big Twin HD's.. I am sure that this has
something to do with the smoothness of the shifting and also the quietness
of the motor on the Indian - no compensator and on and on.. The indian also
has that 3 cam system which is noticably quieter than HD's twin cam
system..
Here is an interesting point, while my wife had no issues with feeling
warmth from the engine, I actually kept getting a hot butt/thigh on my
LEFT leg from all the bikes.. I did not dig into the reasoning for
this but I will say that it was noticeable.. All the bikes came with
an oil cooler up front and I LOVED the placement of the screw on oil
filter.
I am really curious where these bikes are gonna fall in the MPG
range.. I know a modern HD 103 Bagger will net you 48 mpg pretty
regular,, while I didnt actually check fuel economy on any of these
bikes I did ride the Chieftain consecutively out to 111 miles on the
speedo and came in with an empty tank according to the fuel guage..
The staff guy said it had to be filled or it would run out on next
run.. They hold 5 gallons of gas.. If it had a gallon left in it that
calcs out to maybe 30 mpg.. Of course, not being broke in (may get
faster after break in too) that will go up but I still am anxious to
see where these 111's fall in the MPG thingy..
So, if I it were me laying out the 23 grand for a new touring bike
what would it be? HD has a HUGE dealership network, according to
Polaris not all of their current Vic dealers are gonna be Indian
dealers so I am assuming their "network" is gonna be small. HD (and
aftermarket folks) offers more for your money than Indian does in the
way of cool gearhead stuff - build it the way you want it, cams,
jugs, pistons, heads --- it took HD years to accomplish this. I like
the way HD's handle the road, especially the twisties but I honestly
think the Indian has a better highway feel, especially for two up (but you gotta remember I have a really weird riding position) -
stretched out touring.. I, personally, like what HD has done with
watercooling.. I really like the looks of the Indian engine and I also
like the big fenders and the spoke wheels and the tank/speedo bib! I
would be happy with either
Do I think Indian is a threat to HD right now? Nah, not really.. If I
were a marketeer for HD I would be more concerned with how their
target market is gonna accept watercooling than the Indian attack at
this time..
Now if Polaris cut these bikes out at say $18k for the Chieftain, 15
for the Classic and 14 for the Vintage just to get em out into the
publics hands for a good proving ground than yea,, that would be a
threat but hey, that aint gonna happen.. While we were there testing
the new ones a couple guys came in on the Gilroy Indians.. One of
these guys had paid 31 for his new back in the day, and his came with
an S&S motor.. Victory had major issues in their original 92 inch
motors/trannys that really didnt get resolved until 05.. I think some
of all that is gonna haunt Polaris in getting the new Indian into real
attack position..
Man I love this stuff,, what a riot riding the new bikes, what a great
day and age to be test riding new bikes and enjoying our sport!!
Best of luck Polaris!!
Cowpuc
Click here to Reply or Forward
