Indyventure Posted June 21, 2008 Share #1 Posted June 21, 2008 The one thing that throughs me a bit when I get my 89 VR after riding one of my other bikes is how at low speed manuvering the feeback from the handlebars feels very squishy. In fact if you have the bike on the center stand and wobble the handlebars as if they were going into a tankslapper you can really feel the movement in the hanelbars vs the wheel. My understanding is that it is the rubber mounting of the handlebars but it seems to be a bit too much in my opinion. Do you guys have the same feel? Have you jsut got used to it or can it be modified? thanks all Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobcat Posted June 22, 2008 Share #2 Posted June 22, 2008 I would check two things....First, and the easiest would be front tire pressure then I'd check the tightness of the steering head bearing... Many years ago my bike had a strange spongy feel to the steering...I wound up being a roofing nail in my front tire and the loss of air pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted June 23, 2008 Share #3 Posted June 23, 2008 I've not noticed relative movement per se between the bars and fork. However, I do have a little fork/bar wobble in slow, tight turns, like U-turns. Perfectly controllable, but a wobble none-the-less. And I've checked the usual suspects: head bearings, wheel bearings, tires, wheel runout, etc. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerjohn51 Posted June 25, 2008 Share #4 Posted June 25, 2008 I am getting a slight wobble at high speeds 120KM/HR.....or 65 MPH or so.....where do I begin to look for trouble.....I have new tire and balanced at shop...... I'll have to look at the steering column I guess JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dano Posted June 25, 2008 Share #5 Posted June 25, 2008 See if Condor has any "Condorbrace"s left. It'll cure a lot of those problems. Check steering head bearings, may need replaced (bearing and race). Check the bearings by putting the bike on the centerstand and have somebody push down on the rear end to raise the front tire. Grasp the wheel in both hands and try to pull up on it. If any movement is detected at all, the bearings need adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted June 25, 2008 Share #6 Posted June 25, 2008 Also, while on the centerstand with the front wheel off the ground, when you turn the handlebars/wheel off center and let go, the wheel should return to straight ahead position every time. If it is sluggish or doesn't return to center position, you definately have a problem with the bearings and/or bearing tightness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobcat Posted June 25, 2008 Share #7 Posted June 25, 2008 I am getting a slight wobble at high speeds 120KM/HR.....or 65 MPH or so.....where do I begin to look for trouble.....I have new tire and balanced at shop...... I'll have to look at the steering column I guess JM I agree with Bongobob,sounds to me like a classic sign of a loose steering head bearing...No biggee..between the handlebars is a big nut..I can't remember the size but in SAE terms its about 1 1/4"..You'll need the socket that fits..Loosen that nut..Under the nut is a spanner nut (w/notches)..I use a long screwdriver and a rubber mallet and tap that spanner nut in a clockwise direction about 1/4 turn or less..Tighten the top nut and you're on your way...Many will disagree with this method but I've used it several times over the years with different bikes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted June 25, 2008 Share #8 Posted June 25, 2008 Also, while on the centerstand with the front wheel off the ground, when you turn the handlebars/wheel off center and let go, the wheel should return to straight ahead position every time. If it is sluggish or doesn't return to center position, you definately have a problem with the bearings and/or bearing tightness... Bongobob, I beg to differ here. I've never seen a bike front wheel return to center on the centerstand. Conversely, if you push the wheel slightly off center it will tend to fall to the stop. The self-centering effect happens when the weight of the bike is on the wheel and forward motion is happening. Bikerjohn, is your wobble fast and mainly in the front wheel and bars, or kinda slow (3 per second or so) and feels like the whole bike weaving? The former is often front wheel balance, but is usually worst at 30-40 mph. I can't totally get rid of my front end wobble. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indyventure Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share #9 Posted June 25, 2008 Gearhead, what you described in tight turns describes it well. It seems to be effected some by front tire pressure but it doesn't go completely away by any stretch. I've checked my steering head bearing and it seems OK. It did get repacked approx. 8,000 miles ago. I also have a bit of wobble around during a limited hands on the bar decel at somewhare between 35-45 mph. I'm nearing time for a new front tire and hope this may help that some. Plus I jsut keep my hands on the bars but it sdoes get a bit squirrely if I don't have them on there. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted June 25, 2008 Share #10 Posted June 25, 2008 I've got to agree with Jeremy on this one. I've never had one return to center either. They way I adjust them is with the bike on a stand so that the front tire is just barely off the ground, I gently swing it so that it bounces off the left or right stop. When it bounces off the stop, it should gently come to a stop without swaying back and forth either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted June 25, 2008 Share #11 Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) Bongobob, I beg to differ here. I've never seen a bike front wheel return to center on the centerstand. Conversely, if you push the wheel slightly off center it will tend to fall to the stop. The self-centering effect happens when the weight of the bike is on the wheel and forward motion is happening. Jeremy Oops, my bad! that's how it acts with the front tire off. With the front tire on, though, it pretty much stays wherever I place it. Maybe my tension is just a tad tight... Main point, along with the up/down force suggested, I wanted to make a point about the smoothness of the feel as opposed to any binding feeling by turning the handlebars with the front off the ground... Edit: From a design standpoint, as viewed from the side (and from the front), the center of mass of the assembly should ideally line up with a vertical line at the center of where you want the assembly to pivot on. In other words, as viewed from the side of the bike, there should be just as much mass forward of the steering head as there is behind the head. Too much behind the head and you loose some of the feeling of the front tire, and too much ahead of it makes it a little harder to control. Least wise that's what I remember from the last discussion we had on the pros and cons of extended front ends. The fact that my front end acted as described shows the effect of more mass behind the vertical centerline of the assembly as opposed to with a better balance the wheel stays where I put it regardless. Either that or we tend to get waaaay too technical at work... Edited June 25, 2008 by bongobobny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerjohn51 Posted June 25, 2008 Share #12 Posted June 25, 2008 thanks Guys.... I am free this weekend, and will check the steering column as suggested, ALL suggestions, if I can't find anything ,I will return the bike to the shop that changed and balanced the tire, now has 3000 KM of riding this year already, and have it checked again bikerjohn51 ...... see you in Kitchener..... cabin 2001, first 2 nights, wife and I are just taking up 1/2 the cabin, so if someone is desperate for a place, some room with us..... but we prefer privacy.............. UNLESS.... there are some females needy of a place .............HHHHMMMM :rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted June 26, 2008 Share #13 Posted June 26, 2008 Bongobob, that makes sense what you say. When the wheel is off, it may be the handlebars pointing backward that provides the weight aft of the steering axis necessary to self-center the fork. Indy, yup, the low-speed decel in that speed range is the worst for fork wobble. Like I said, I haven't been able to get rid of mine, but a new tire did help alot. It's fine as long as I keep my hands on the bars, with one exception: heavy braking. Twice in a month or so I had emergency stops, as in "I think I'm gonna die now" emergency stops. Both times the forks went into a violent shake despite my death grip on the bars. I stayed upright both times and missed the cars in my way by the grace of God. (FWIW, sometimes people say that you need to loosen your grip to make certain shakes go away. I think that applies more to a hi-speed weave of the whole bike, and besides, how do you loosen your grip when emergency-braking?) I remember a time way back on my old Interceptor 500, which had no head shake or wobble issues, when I had to slam on the brakes and it did a front end dance as well. Maybe that's par for the course, or bad technique, or something. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerjohn51 Posted June 28, 2008 Share #14 Posted June 28, 2008 :whistling:got out of the garage a few hours ago, and I found 2 problems that may have contributed to it......when it was on the center stand, and I grabbed the forks at the front axle it moved front to back about a 1/2 inch..... taking into consideration, some flex is needed, it still seemed to much. So the culprit must be the steering stem bearing, not having one in my possesion, I decided to delve into the tear down anyway, and see what could be done, after 1/2 hour, and very careful reading of the manual, I was finally at the steering column ring nut. (along the way, I found 2 loose pinch bolts, and my right side handlebar hold-down nut did not have much torque on it.>>>> when in the teardown.... to get parts out of the way while working.... don't take the Phillips screws out of the ignition module, just the 12 head bolts........spent 15 minutes putting the switch back together:doh:, the other hard part was remembering where to route the wiring for the cruise control harness.....seemed insignificant at the time..........all back together and working, now have to wait for daylight to do a test run, but this weekend may be bad..........long weekend, and coppers patroling the roads, will have to wait to get up to 120-130 km/hr later this week:cool10:.... by the way, a 1 1/16 socket and a 1 1/8 socket is needed for this job....THANKS FOR ALL THE ADVICE, FROM ALL, and sorry I stool the thunder from the original concern of the low speed wobble, but just pushing around in the garage, mine feels less "spongy" on the handle bars............. and yes FREEBIRD, the long time fix will be new bearings..... that will be in the job jar for say.....DECEMBER:whistling: have a safe weekend BIKERJOHN51..... also known as "grumpy bear" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerjohn51 Posted June 28, 2008 Share #15 Posted June 28, 2008 that should be 12 MM head bolts:whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted June 28, 2008 Share #16 Posted June 28, 2008 My experince with the steering head is to tighten the snot out it until the steering feels tight and you have no bounce when the wheel is swung to the side. At this point I back off the star nut a little, until I get just a little bounce. If everything else is good, bearings and grease, then all should be good. Always do a test ride to make sure things aren't tooo tight. This solves the slow speed turning wobble as well as the higher speed steering wobble. Now if someone could find a solution to the high speed total bike waddle, that would be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86er Posted June 30, 2008 Share #17 Posted June 30, 2008 Bongobob, I beg to differ here. I've never seen a bike front wheel return to center on the centerstand. Conversely, if you push the wheel slightly off center it will tend to fall to the stop. The self-centering effect happens when the weight of the bike is on the wheel and forward motion is happening. .......................................................................................................................... Jeremy I had a 650 Maxim that would center if you pulled the bars a little to the side. It was SCARY to ride! The reason for the self-centering was that it had ball bearings in the steering head and they had created divots in the races. I was able to get the races from Mamaha fairly cheap, but they wanted like 4 bucks apiece for the bearings and there were about twenty of them. I ordered three and went to Ace Hardware with them. I matched them up with Ace bearings at 15c apiece and they worked great till I sold the bike 50K miles later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted July 1, 2008 Share #18 Posted July 1, 2008 Ok, based on what you said you found, that much play, loose pinch bolts, !!! and how many miles has this bike been on the road in this condition ???? Test ride this beast Very Carefully , and find out at what Speed, you get head shake, if any. Be sure you know what its doing, this can be dangerous. One more comment, I think you need a new set of Steering Head Bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted July 2, 2008 Share #19 Posted July 2, 2008 Now if someone could find a solution to the high speed total bike waddle, that would be interesting. Some claim significant reduction of hi-speed weave using solid engine mounts to stiffen up the frame. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyHorse Posted July 2, 2008 Share #20 Posted July 2, 2008 Some claim significant reduction of hi-speed weave using solid engine mounts to stiffen up the frame. Jeremy I have all the solid mounts in I think of out all the modifications I did this helped the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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