My Venture to “The Darkside” & Return

[pegscraper]

I submit that you didn't run the tire long enough to properly scrub it in. Until the tire gets scrubbed in, you have to ride it easier. No revelation here. And a CT may well take longer to scrub in than a MT too, especially the corners. Three hundred and fifty miles is not enough to determine anything. I've had MTs kick out on me like that also when I got too aggressive in the curves. Go put more like 500 to 1000 miles on it and then see what you think.

[OB-1]

I submit that you didn't run the tire long enough to properly scrub it in. Until the tire gets scrubbed in, you have to ride it easier. No revelation here. And a CT may well take longer to scrub in than a MT too, especially the corners. Three hundred and fifty miles is not enough to determine anything. I've had MTs kick out on me like that also when I got too aggressive in the curves. Go put more like 500 to 1000 miles on it and then see what you think.

 

The kick out on the corners was not the reason for removing the car tire, the ever present wobble was the deciding factor.

[thebighop]

For the record OB...I may be the one you referred to as running 40lbs in my T/A Radial...actually I went to 45lbs, and ran it nearly 1400 miles like that..I had wobble up the ying yang, but yesterday I dropped it down to 34.5lbs and the difference is like day and night...It handles great..a brizillion times better than it did at 45lbs.

When I first installed it, I tried 35lbs and thought I was gonna die in a fiery crash...LOL, so I took it up to where I thought it felt pretty good. I got busy with caring for my wife and didn't have time to play with it, that's how I came to log 1400 miles for break-in....

So it may take a little longer than what you might consider adequate, it may depend on the tire, the day it was made which press it came from etc, etc, etc....

I logged the 1400 miles in pretty short order...we have had a lot of rainy days, and I have had to take the truck back and forth to the hospital quite a bit otherwise I would have had 1000 miles in about 2 weeks for riding....

I can scrape the pegs like a crotchity rocket now.

[SaltyDawg]

1,000 miles, 1,400 miles to break in a tire!!! That's insane, sorry but I'm not willing to put my life on line for 1,000 miles to get more tread wear out of a tire. Performance is obviously not a factor in mounting a CT. A half a pound of air being the difference between feeling like dieing in a fiery crash and night and day?

 

I mount a new rear tire about every 10 months putting 18-20,000 miles on it. I don't make a lot of money, but I can afford $130.00 every 10 months to have the peace of mind to know I have the ability to get out of a hairy situation when that cage comes into my lane. Whether I'm breaking the tire in or have 15,000 miles on it.

 

As I have stated in another post. I can see mounting a CT if you run mostly straight flat roads, pull a trailer A LOT, or had the bike triked/side car. I see advantages in that.

 

I ride to work each and every day, rain, cold, dead of summer, 100 miles round trip. So believe me when I say I would like a tire that lasts longer, but not at the cost of handling.

 

To each his own.

[flb_78]

1,000 miles, 1,400 miles to break in a tire!!! That's insane, sorry but I'm not willing to put my life on line for 1,000 miles to get more tread wear out of a tire. Performance is obviously not a factor in mounting a CT. A half a pound of air being the difference between feeling like dieing in a fiery crash and night and day?

 

I mount a new rear tire about every 10 months putting 18-20,000 miles on it.

 

 

It wasn't a half pound of air, it was 10.5lbs of air. He went from 45 down to 34.5

 

I've never had a rear tire last 10,000 miles on any bike. I'll be lucky to get 15,000 on the CT right now. I don't know how folks are getting almost 20,000 out of a tire. They gotta be drivin' Miss Daisy or something.

 

[thebighop]

1,000 miles, 1,400 miles to break in a tire!!! That's insane, sorry but I'm not willing to put my life on line for 1,000 miles to get more tread wear out of a tire. Performance is obviously not a factor in mounting a CT. A half a pound of air being the difference between feeling like dieing in a fiery crash and night and day?

 

 

Ya read me wrong pal...

(First...I don't get the note about putting your life on the line for 1000 miles...I have see Metzlers blow apart in under 500 miles....)

I went from 45 down to 34.5...(I have a very high quality gauge reading in the tenths of lbs)

The reason I ran 1400 miles is , my wife has been in the hospital for the past 3 weeks and I haven't had time to do anything but see to her staying alive at this point...we're starting to see some improvement, so I am finally not at the hospital 18 hours out of every day, which gave me an opportunity to get on with my hunt for the 'sweet spot'...I have no doubt what so ever, if you ride in earnest at all, you'd have the tire broke in in a week, just like you would any MT...approx 500 miles, which is really about what it takes to scuff an MT real good too.

BUT!!! now that I have had a chance to try a lower LBS and get some miles on it, I am so astonished at the difference, I feel rather an idiot for my belly aching about the performance I was getting...or lacking , before the pressure change.

I am gonna guess that yer probably a lot like me, that when you don't get instant gratification, yer ready to change lanes...No Offense meant what so ever...I just know from my own experience that when I don't see results like the next guys...I call 'em jerks and ride off...and I am old school on using CT's...I ran CT's front and back on my old Harleys, and did OK...difference being, back in the 60's and 70's there were only 4 or 5 of us riding, instead of 4million or 5 million, and we didn't know any better, and didn't have any naysayers around to set us right...

[PBJ]

Well it makes sense that running the tire pressure down would accommodate it to the handling characteristics of a motorcyle. We could do all the members a big favor that want to try this to post some air pressure figures for different types of CT's used on bikes to give them an idea of where these sweet spots are instead of having to find them on their own. Maybe a sticky with some of those figures could be done if it hasn't come up already. I know this topic has been up before if members have those figures hopefully they'll post them again for all considering this mod.

[SaltyDawg]

It wasn't a half pound of air, it was 10.5lbs of air. He went from 45 down to 34.5

 

I've never had a rear tire last 10,000 miles on any bike. I'll be lucky to get 15,000 on the CT right now. I don't know how folks are getting almost 20,000 out of a tire. They gotta be drivin' Miss Daisy or something.

 

 

Read the whole post. He started at 35psi and said he felt like he was going to die in a fiery death, 45 was better but still with the wobble and then dropping to 34.5 was like night and day. Now I'm no rocket scientist, but I can figure that if 35 was really bad and 45 was better than the 35. It's pretty easy to see that dropping from 35 where he started and ending up on 34.5 is only a half of a pound no matter how many stops along the way. The difference between a fiery death and night and day. To me a half a pound is unacceptable air expands as it gets hot so suffice it to say that what you start out the day with on pressure isn't what it's going to be going 65MPH down the interstate on a hot day. If the tire is that sensitive to pressure changes then how would you go about making sure it's perfect every time?

 

NASCAR crew chiefs make 1/4psi changes to change spring rate of the tire, but they use Nitrogen because it expands less than air.

 

I check my tire pressures every week and sometimes it has dropped as much as 3 psi.

 

As far as mileage on the RT, well maybe you just haven't found the right tire yet. I don't ride like a little old lady but I don't scrape the floorboards on every turn either. I run hard for the most part. I was never able to get more than 8-10,000 miles out of a rear tire until switching to the Commanders. I don't, however ride 2 up anywhere near as much as I used to. My wife has her own scoot now.

[SaltyDawg]

1,000 miles, 1,400 miles to break in a tire!!! That's insane, sorry but I'm not willing to put my life on line for 1,000 miles to get more tread wear out of a tire. Performance is obviously not a factor in mounting a CT. A half a pound of air being the difference between feeling like dieing in a fiery crash and night and day?

 

 

Ya read me wrong pal...

(First...I don't get the note about putting your life on the line for 1000 miles...I have see Metzlers blow apart in under 500 miles....)

I went from 45 down to 34.5...(I have a very high quality gauge reading in the tenths of lbs)

The reason I ran 1400 miles is , my wife has been in the hospital for the past 3 weeks and I haven't had time to do anything but see to her staying alive at this point...we're starting to see some improvement, so I am finally not at the hospital 18 hours out of every day, which gave me an opportunity to get on with my hunt for the 'sweet spot'...I have no doubt what so ever, if you ride in earnest at all, you'd have the tire broke in in a week, just like you would any MT...approx 500 miles, which is really about what it takes to scuff an MT real good too.

BUT!!! now that I have had a chance to try a lower LBS and get some miles on it, I am so astonished at the difference, I feel rather an idiot for my belly aching about the performance I was getting...or lacking , before the pressure change.

I am gonna guess that yer probably a lot like me, that when you don't get instant gratification, yer ready to change lanes...No Offense meant what so ever...I just know from my own experience that when I don't see results like the next guys...I call 'em jerks and ride off...and I am old school on using CT's...I ran CT's front and back on my old Harleys, and did OK...difference being, back in the 60's and 70's there were only 4 or 5 of us riding, instead of 4million or 5 million, and we didn't know any better, and didn't have any naysayers around to set us right...

 

Maybe I did read you wrong I don't know. You did have a round about way of getting the tire broke in, but there are others that are telling OB-1 that he didn't give the tire enough time to break in, that 350 miles wasn't enough and that theirs didn't feel good until about 1,000 miles. Unacceptable in my book, but then again that's just me.

 

I have to applaud the MC shop that refused to put the CT on for OB, they obviously saw the writing on the wall.

[flb_78]

He tried it and didn't like it. Not a big deal. At least it was tried and he has experience with it. Some folks don't like Dunlops, or Avons, or Michelins, or Metzlers. He didn't like the car tire. I don't believe any of us had said "just slap it on and you'll notice no difference", on the contrary, most of us said there is a longer then expected break in time. I'm at least glad he tried it and reported on it even though it's not favorable.

[thebighop]

I haven't posted as much here as I have on another site in Delphi (Dark side) about my experiences with the CT...

But to clear it up...when you first install a CT the mold release agent will make the tire squirm a bit...much the same as an MT but since you have so much more foot print with the CT it is going to be more pronounced...thus the reason for a longer break in period. A MT has a scant foot print, as witnessed by running it thru water and looking at the trail left behind on dry pavement...now do likewise with a CT and you'll see a huge difference....

At 35lbs, I didn't feel like it was stable...but keep in mind I also put a 130/80 on the front at the same time as the CT on the back so the handling was way different to begin with regardless of what the CT was gonna do, plus I installed leveling links to raise the rear end at the same time, again changing the rake, and the handling and over all feel of the bike...so it wasn't just the tre that I had concerns about...

Not to mention I was extremely tense while testing the tire...due to my fear of dying in a fiery crash...I was so tense you couldn't have shoved a knitting needle up my ass with a sledge hammer, and that had an effect on how the bike handled...I wouldn't allow the bike to run it's course and was constantly trying to force it in to the groove...

I ran my tire up to 45lbs where I felt the side walls were a bit stiffer feeling, and because of my wife being hospitalized I didn't really have time to mess with it...it got me from point A to point B with out me dying in a fiery crash, so no big deal.

When I did get a chance to adjust the air and take it down to 34.5 (which is where I landed by chance...I was aiming at 35) the tire was well broken in and now runs like any normal MT would feel...except, I don't lose traction in tight fast curves, I have far better control in the rain, and now I won't be changing tires in mid July like I always have in the past....

But understand that I respect your opinion...I just want to be sure you understand the facts and details of my experience...

Is this for everyone...without a doubt pretty much anyone could adapt to it, but I know as well as you, a lot of folks just won't try, so no..it's not for everyone...but I found out a long time ago, riding my old Harleys, that CT's are as safe as any MT, so I have no problem using them myself...

Having had a few MT's blow apart and fail miserably at mileage...I was more than willing to 'risk my life' on a CT...No difference than wrecking on a MT, which we already know are not of the quality that their price would indicate...

If you don't wanna do it...no biggie...

[Gearhead]

"I've never had a rear tire last 10,000 miles on any bike. I'll be lucky to get 15,000 on the CT right now. I don't know how folks are getting almost 20,000 out of a tire. They gotta be drivin' Miss Daisy or something"

 

 

Have you ever run a Dunlop Elite 2 or E3? They routinely get 20k on the rear.

 

Jeremy

[PBJ]

I have a question, doesn't running a ct on a bike create a problem with the Insurance companies paying up on an accident? I mean you know insurance companies look for excuses to not pay. I would think that if someone went down with a car tire because of a kick out or Broken cords are found due to Ct's having to be over inflated to get the bead to set. Is that taking a gamble with the insurance? those guys check these sites you know and look for info like this stuff we post here . Has ANYONE darksider or not considered this? This is a question worth exploring and NOT a negative comment.

[flb_78]

Depends on the company. Progressive WILL cover a bike with a car tire.

[Grey Ghost]

Is that taking a gamble with the insurance?...Has ANYONE darksider or not considered this?

 

I've considered it many times, but not as many as I've considered the possibility of getting hit by a car or having any other kind of accident on the bike. But I still get on it.

 

As far as the original post in this thread, heck, I wasn't comfortable for a lot longer than 350 miles on the first motorcycle tires I was on. Maybe I can remember that better than some others since I've only been riding three years.

 

I'm still learning about two wheels and I hope I continue to learn as long as I ride.

 

As I have posted elsewhere, it did take me a little while to get used to the ct, but 90% of that was mental, since I had been told to expect to crash and burn in the first curve that I came to.

 

I was so scared that I rode for 1,000 miles in a straight line until I was forced to make that dreaded U turn and come back home. LOL

 

Anyhow, now that I have approx. 2,000 miles on the tire, I really like it. I think that it is more a matter of taste and feel just like choosing the make or model of bike you ride. When my best riding buddy first put a ct on his Honda VTX 1800, I tried as hard as I possibly could to get him to change, but he wouldn't do it. I don't know why he is so stubborn and continues to ride that Honda.

 

Seriously, I would never try to influence anyone to change to a car tire if they didn't want to. While I personally think that you are at least as safe on a ct as you are on a mt whether on a wet road or dry one, this is a decision everyone should make for themselves.

 

Whatever we ride, let's ride together safe and enjoy life.

 

Jeff

[Vance]

OB-1 shouldn't have to justify his results, or validate them. Some of the responses to his post made me feel like I was reading "The Inquisition".

Thanks for the report, OB. And thanks for the replys.

[MAINEAC]

OB-1 shouldn't have to justify his results, or validate them. Some of the responses to his post made me feel like I was reading "The Inquisition".

Thanks for the report, OB. And thanks for the replys.

 

Call it "The Inquisition" or think what you want... This is a fairly new mod that I'm going to do myself and I want to know about any potential pitfals that may occur. That's the purpose of this forum.

[Jerry W]

I do not run a CT at this time, but I have checked with my insurance company and was told that my insurance would not be affected by running a CT on the bike. My insurance is with Dairyland.

[kilowatt55]

My brother in law runs a car tire on his VTX 1300 Honda and really brags about the ride and handling. I have ridden with him and it does as good as a MC tire in the turns but it has much more traction when braking and starting. He had about 20,000 mi on it when he changed it after riding about 50 mi on a flat after the valve stem broke when he pulled the old tire it barely showed any sign of wear and was not hurt internaly by being run flat. The only thing I have noticed is a squirley feel when turning sharply at very low speeds. BTW let me know if you want to sell that tire.

[GunnyButch]

I'm not considering a CT but following the threads I have a question. Is the only advantage in using a CT increased mileage? From what I've read handling is not improved or degraded and is something you get used to? Just asking, no criticism intended.

[OB-1]

I'm not considering a CT but following the threads I have a question. Is the only advantage in using a CT increased mileage? From what I've read handling is not improved or degraded and is something you get used to? Just asking, no criticism intended.

 

In my experience, a car tire provides increased traction in straight line riding under all road conditions. My main problem with the car tire is the instability it causes, constant weave or wobble.

Car tire on a motorcycle; I tried it and I don’t like it and wouldn’t recommend it on RSV. Your experience and opinion may differ.

[stardbog]

Hi All, as many of us are interesting to try CT on Venture, I'm Purchase one BFG CT, But reading Reports, and going shortly to Muffin's Inn Asheville rally, Decide to live CT in garage and go with Avons Venom. Reason why is break in period of CT. Somebody said take about 1-1.5 K Miles to break in. well week of lurking Round Smokies, doesn't give me enough time to break tire. I Don't wanna go to Tail of Dragon with half way break in period and Car Tire. I'll Try next time. So I'm steel on Bright side.

Just One Question to OB-1?

Did you try to rebalance tire after you decide to switch back? Looks like your tire was out of balance, And of corse your riding stile, and wrist disorder didn't match handling of CT.

[pegscraper]

The "only" advantage being increase tire mileage? That's plenty reason enough right there, that they'll last three times as long or better. MT manufacturers have a pretty good racket going for themselves.

 

Handling is slightly different. Neither better nor worse. Adapt to it and move on.

 

Traction, both wet and dry, is much better. It takes a lot more to lock up the rear wheel with a CT, but it still can be done. I got caught in the pouring rain a couple weeks ago on a somewhat winding road, at least as far as northern IN goes. Not a road to use if you're trying to make time getting anywhere. Rode for three hours in pouring down rain with no problems at all.

 

I didn't see where anybody said it takes as much as 1500 miles to break in a CT. I said 500 miles once, one time when I blindly repeated something someone else said. Shame on me for that. My own experience is that it didn't take any longer to scuff the glaze off my CT than any other MT I've ever used.

 

My wife was really leery of me doing this. "CTs aren't designed to lean over, they're just not designed for motorcycles, it just can't be right." All the same stuff we always hear everywhere else. All I told her is that there would be no difference there. It would be fine. You won't even know it's there. It took only one ten mile ride as a passenger for her to say that she felt some differences. "Oh yeah, like what?" "The bike feels more stable underneath us, and the ride is softer, not so bouncy and bumpy." I nodded my head. "That's what I've heard from others who have done this, that their passengers like the softer ride better." I didn't tell her that ahead of time. In fact what I told her was that everything would be just the same, that she wouldn't be able to tell any difference at all. I wanted to see what she might say about it without any prebiasing. She came up with that all on her own. She really likes this CT stuff.

[OB-1]

...Just One Question to OB-1?

Did you try to rebalance tire after you decide to switch back? Looks like your tire was out of balance, And of corse your riding stile, and wrist disorder didn't match handling of CT.

 

Yes, the car tire was balanced. Like I said in my original post, the bike always had a weeve or wobble, like going through a sweeping turn with bad shocks except that you weren't in a turn and your shocks aren't bad. No hint of any handling problems with M/C tires, and I can scrape the floorboards with confidence...as long as my wife isn't on the back seat!

[spear]

If there are at least 4 of you guys going to fit a car tyre to your bike, would you like to send the bike tyres you remove to me so I can fit them to my car to see how it handles?

Now - that would be an interesting ride!