Kretz Posted July 14, 2018 Share #26 Posted July 14, 2018 The short answer is, It is self defense until proven otherwise. In the USA we are supposedly innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Glad you said "supposedly" inncocent... there seem to be more & more cases now where a person can be adjudged by the media (in particular), social media & even the law to be Guilty & they have to prove they are not! (btw not knocking the US as its the same here!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddlebum Posted July 14, 2018 Share #27 Posted July 14, 2018 On another note when it comes to carry I hear a lot about open and concealed and wonder what factors determine why one state vs another state choose to go with one or the other. On one hand I can see where open carry makes it quicker to pull a weapon for self defense but can also make it quicker to pull a weapon unnecessarily in the heat of an argument. It also seems to me that when a state allows concealed carry only, the criminal has no way of knowing who is carrying and who isn't causing him to be less bold where in an open carry state a criminal can simply pick and choose his victim increasing his odds of success. So what is the reasoning behind the different forms of carry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zagger Posted July 14, 2018 Share #28 Posted July 14, 2018 So what is the reasoning behind the different forms of carry? Open carry is legal in Wisconsin - I don't think that any permit is required. However, on the practical side, many people become quite alarmed if they see someone opening carrying a firearm. Once I was in the grocery store and noticed a guy carrying a pistol in a exposed holster. I also noticed the general looks of alarm by the other shoppers - and realized the best reason for concealed carry. Personally, I don't care how or where people choose to carry a weapon. zag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddlebum Posted July 14, 2018 Share #29 Posted July 14, 2018 Glad you said "supposedly" inncocent... there seem to be more & more cases now where a person can be adjudged by the media (in particular), social media & even the law to be Guilty & they have to prove they are not! (btw not knocking the US as its the same here!)Unfortunately here in Canada we have this ridicules legal thing that basically disallows you to protect yourself. If you subdue someone entering or attacking you by killing or maiming him even though your life is threatened your charged with excessive force. If you simply subdue or secure the attacker in any way simply to hold him for the law you are charged with unlawful confinement. A buddy of mine was once attacked in his own home by three guys who brought with them a baseball bat for the sole purpose of laying a beating on him. He managed to get hold of the bat and put the run to them. Next thing he knew the police were on the door and he was charged with assault which stayed on his record for seven years, go figure. Now don't get me wrong, I am not a violent person and I certainly for the most do not condone violence except when it comes to defending ones home, family and freedoms against aggressors. So on that note I do agree some laws need to exist to prevent small aggression's from snowballing into larger uncontrollable issues, but who decides where the line of common sense lies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted July 14, 2018 Share #30 Posted July 14, 2018 On another note when it comes to carry I hear a lot about open and concealed and wonder what factors determine why one state vs another state choose to go with one or the other. On one hand I can see where open carry makes it quicker to pull a weapon for self defense but can also make it quicker to pull a weapon unnecessarily in the heat of an argument. It also seems to me that when a state allows concealed carry only, the criminal has no way of knowing who is carrying and who isn't causing him to be less bold where in an open carry state a criminal can simply pick and choose his victim increasing his odds of success. So what is the reasoning behind the different forms of carry? I may be TOTALLY wrong on this but I do not recall hearing of one of our States issuing CC permits and not allowing open carry. As I mentioned earlier,, the CC is an extension of the right to keep and bear and open carry is foundational in that right, with Concealed Carry being in addition. The States who do not adhere to our Constitutional governing (lots of those on both the east and west coast), and is my understanding, do not allow for open carry and it's therefore a given that they also do not issue CC permits and normal law abiding citizens are not allow to pack = in those States, this is reserved for bad guys and Law Enforcement only!! I am not sure if this has changed cause it has been a while since I have chatted with anyone from Wyoming about this but a few years ago I was traveling across Wy, stopped at a gas station to tank up and noticed Chrome Colt Python laying on the seat of the truck next to me, the owner was putting in some fuel and I commented to him about how PURDY that shooter was.. He reached in, picked it up and handed it to me for me to play with = it was fully loaded.. I said "got a CC permit eh"? Nope,, was his reply,, dont need nothing like that out here, it's still America out here and everyone carrys.. Later, I noticed some WY State Patrol officers eating lunch and asked em about it.. Oh yeaa,, was there reply,,, out here it's a given that every car we pull over is armed,,, just the way it is... Shamefully I do not know where this stands now as an absolute (I live here,, I REALLY should know our laws concerning this) but back when I was young it was considered a normal way of life to see "Easy Rider Rifle Racks" hanging in the window our pickup trucks = everybody had em and 99% of em had long guns hanging openly for all the world to see.. Now adays,, it is my understanding that even the most flat out conservative and ardent Constitutional honoring States that are issuing CC's do NOT honor those CC's to include long guns!! In other words,, the CC permit is ONLY for handguns,,, makes no sense either IMHO.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted July 14, 2018 Author Share #31 Posted July 14, 2018 In Ohio, open carry is legal. If you can legally purchase a firearm you can also open carry it legally, with no permit. You must have a permit to carry concealed. By the way, I picked up another pistol today. Have read some good things about the new Sig Sauer P365. There were a few issues with the early production models but they seem to have them all worked out now. What a great carry gun. It is actually almost the exact same size as my Sig P938 but the 938 holds 6 +1 rounds and the new P365 holds 10 + 1 round. Also, a 12 + 1 magazine is also available. I haven't shot it yet but look forward to putting it through the paces. It will be a day or two before I can try it out because our guest cottage is rented for the weekend and I don't shoot when there are guests there. They will leave sometime tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted July 14, 2018 Share #32 Posted July 14, 2018 @cowpuc, you just need to go for a quick swim across the pond. In WI when they voted in the CC it also became legal at the same time to have a loaded long gun in or on the vehicle. In most parts of the state if you have guns in the window, you will have a broken window and no guns very shortly....... In Milwaukee, there is one guy that is an advocate of open carry, he is a constant target of the bad guys. They pass him on the sidewalk and as they pass they put their gun to the back of his head and take his open carry gun. Now the bad guys have another gun for use on the streets. I do not know how many guns this goof has put on the streets. The crooks are targeting the one who open carry, a gun will sell on the street for more than the amount of cash most people carry around, and if you are displaying your valuables........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted July 14, 2018 Share #33 Posted July 14, 2018 All this rhetoric about open carry in this state and that state, is a good reason to take away the state control of firearms and make it government DOJ/ATF only. The 2nd Amendment right to own a firearm is Constitutional, and should be the law of the land everywhere, and not take a back seat to all these inane state restrictions that, in a since, undermine the 2nd.... IMHO... http://www.cast-aways.com/CONDORPICS/Sam-Side.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDawson Posted July 14, 2018 Share #34 Posted July 14, 2018 There you go trying to interject logic and common sense into government Condor. Where would all that lobby :mo money::mo money:go then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zagger Posted July 14, 2018 Share #35 Posted July 14, 2018 All this rhetoric about open carry in this state and that state, is a good reason to take away the state control of firearms and make it government DOJ/ATF only. The 2nd Amendment right to own a firearm is Constitutional, and should be the law of the land everywhere, and not take a back seat to all these inane state restrictions that, in a since, undermine the 2nd.... IMHO... Couldn't agree more! Actual CCW is a nightmare of state and local restrictions - along with local police who just do what they want. It is easy to become a victim of government over reach. And that is assuming you never are forced to shoot someone who attacks you. If that happens, you might wish that the perp had succeeded! zag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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