Cleaning and Bleeding Brakes

[Old Man Zzzz]

I recently did my entire brake hydraulic system ('84 VR). Is the "nut" you're talking about the banjo bolt? If so you can just replace the banjo bolt (and of course the crush washers).

i also found a guy in Michigan who made stainless steel brake lines for about $30 apiece. If you're already in this deep.....well, that's what always gets me in trouble....as long as I'm doing this work...may as well go all the way

 

No, its not a banjo bolt, its a flare nut, that connects the tubing to meter valve. Its on right hand side, 1 bolt attaches it to the frame.

Banjo on opposite side, which goes down to left caliper.

 

Replacement tubing for next go around, resolved, still plenty of parts left out there,

[Patmac6075]

Gottcha!

[Old Man Zzzz]

Hey Zzzz, your parts are on the way brother... Had to ship em in a USPS Priority tube because of the pre bends in the brake line - you should see them by next Tuesday...

To pay for all this I would prefer that you just make a donation to the great cause that @DragonRider and others here serve by contributing a few bucks to the VR St. Judes Childrens Hospital fund (put in Fozzies/Dragon Riders - own words - do it for the Kids).. FYI - He (Dragon Rider) is running an auction right now for this great cause and it can be found here = http://www.venturerider.org/forum/photopost/showcat.php?cat=27 --- a really fun way to donate.. If money's tight like it gets sometimes,, just do the pay it forward thing - help someone along lifes way when you can...

The parts aren't new but I hope you find them usable..

Puc

 

PS - I think I am going to bid on the Audio System in the St. Judes auction,, be kind of cool if you bid against me on it - sorta be like me bidding against myself - in a round about way

 

Puc,

 

Will do on the donation, and thanks again for the advice and the parts, sure they will work fine. Hard to find new parts these days, when you do they think its a goldmine.

Zzzzzz

[camos]

I am also not real sure if a dead end street "T'd" into a line that the fluid is running in would capture little air bubbles as they passed by - dont know.. It's a good suggestion though,, definitely worthy of experimentation IMHO.

Bubbles that pass by are not likely to be a problem since they will make it out at the caliper bleeder. Air that collects at the metering valve would be air in the system that never made it out. Gravity will make it collect at a high point such as the metering valve. Putting in a dead end bleeder line will offer a collection point that is easy to clear out and probably make it easier to deal with any brake fluid spillage.

 

I don't know whether it is worthwhile making the effort to install a midpoint bleeder on a Mk I but since it was worth it to Yamaha to modify the Mk II then I would consider it to be likely a good thing.

[cowpuc]

Bubbles that pass by are not likely to be a problem since they will make it out at the caliper bleeder. Air that collects at the metering valve would be air in the system that never made it out. Gravity will make it collect at a high point such as the metering valve. Putting in a dead end bleeder line will offer a collection point that is easy to clear out and probably make it easier to deal with any brake fluid spillage.

 

I don't know whether it is worthwhile making the effort to install a midpoint bleeder on a Mk I but since it was worth it to Yamaha to modify the Mk II then I would consider it to be likely a good thing.

 

:thumbsup:

[Condor]

I think this whole thread makes a great case for Speed Bleeders.....

[videoarizona]

I think this whole thread makes a great case for Speed Bleeders.....

 

I find they help me....

[camos]

I think this whole thread makes a great case for Speed Bleeders.....

So I guess you didn't read the very first post in this thread. Speed bleeders are not in themselves a bad thing just unnecessary once you learn how to properly conduct the bleeding process.

[Condor]

So I guess you didn't read the very first post in this thread. Speed bleeders are not in themselves a bad thing just unnecessary once you learn how to properly conduct the bleeding process.

 

I did read the first post, and I'll reiterate. This thread makes a great case for Speed-Bleeders. After going through all those instructions and theories, and you still want to rub two sticks together to make a fire...because a match isn't necessary... more power to ya'.... Hope you have a great 4th!!

[Guest Jamsie]

So I guess you didn't read the very first post in this thread. Speed bleeders are not in themselves a bad thing just unnecessary once you learn how to properly conduct the bleeding process.

can you come over to england and bleed my brakes for me before saturday

i have a ferry booked to go to Isle of Man , wife is gonna be angry if i have to take the VFR and not my 2nd gen

[camos]

I did read the first post, and I'll reiterate. This thread makes a great case for Speed-Bleeders. After going through all those instructions and theories, and you still want to rub two sticks together to make a fire...because a match isn't necessary... more power to ya'.... Hope you have a great 4th!!

It is rather difficult to answer someone who has their head stuck firmly in an ostrich hidey hole. I'm beginning to think the solution is too simple for some people to believe it can possibly work better than throwing lots of money as possible at it. Everyone has their demons...

[camos]

can you come over to england and bleed my brakes for me before saturday

i have a ferry booked to go to Isle of Man , wife is gonna be angry if i have to take the VFR and not my 2nd gen

You have all the knowledge you need so you can be your wife's hero and save the day.

[Condor]

It is rather difficult to answer someone who has their head stuck firmly in an ostrich hidey hole. I'm beginning to think the solution is too simple for some people to believe it can possibly work better than throwing lots of money as possible at it. Everyone has their demons...

 

You have all the knowledge you need so you can be your wife's hero and save the day.

GROAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[greg_in_london]

Jamsie - are you feeling drawn ? Like you're in two places ;-) Are you in Washington or good old blighty ?

[Guest Jamsie]

Greg i am in washington tyne and wear, ancestral home of george washingtons family

ps , brakes done , everything checked and test ride done , IOM on sat for southern 100 races.

tghe reason i use the washington dc flag is that it is the same as washington uk flag ( flag is the washington family coat of arms )

[camos]

I have never disassembled a caliper but I know a number of you have.

How long are the pistons or how far out can the pistons be moved before they are in danger of popping out?

[cowpuc]

Only had to pop pistons a couple times to get a good caliper together, run pistons out to the width of a new brake pad (always figured 1/2 a backing plate width beyond the width of pad was a good place to stop the piston - never have had one pop out using the new pad as a gauge) - rip a piece of old cotton tea shirt to kind of match the width of the exposed piston and 8 or 10 inches long - slip it around the piston and pinch the two ends together so I have the exposed piston wrapped nice and tight in the good clean rag - soak it up with carb or brake cleaner - move the rag back and forth around the piston - remove the rag and examine piston to see if streaks are cleaning up - make another wrap and clean until the pistons a sparkly clean - last cleaning I use a clean rag with brake fluid on it - push the piston back in - push it back out and check for more rub marks - if rub marks are present I start over - when completed I do the other side.. 99% of time this cures sticky calipers.

[bongobobny]

They're about an inch deep camos. what I usually do to disassemble is use various thickness of wood in between the pistons and compressed air applied to the hydraulic input to the caliper. Actually what I do is a piece of 1/4" plywood between the brake pads, then remove the wood and hit it again with air, then remove the pads or at least one pad and insert the plywood if needed. Once one piston pops that's as far as you can get with air, then the rest of the pistons have to be carefully removed.

 

You might want to try the Pucster tee shirt trick to see if that fixes it for you, good idea!

 

Are you doing the front or rear?? If you are doing the whole nine yards i.e. honing the cylinders, etc the front calipers are two piece. If that is what your game plan is, then for what the seal kits cost for the MK2 you may be better served considering a pair of R1 or R6 calipers instead...

[camos]

@ Bob and Puc:

Thanks for the feedback, it looks like about 1/2" out is safe for the pistons. Yesterday I made up a clamp tool which works quite well. It is 2"x4"x1/8" flatbar with 1/4"x2" bolts. Perhaps 3/16" might have been a better choice.

 

 

Cleaned the pistons and went for a ride this morning. They are still sticking so will try again today.

[Condor]

I just don't understand why the pistons aren't removed one at a time with compressed air?? All it takes is two pieces of ply wood. One the width and half the thickness of the opening between the pads, and the other half the width and one quarter the thickness... Glue them together and by rotating or reversing the set up one piston at a time can be removed by compressed air blown into the banjo bolts hole. Just be careful when using the air. They come out at a speed that would make NASA proud.... As far as cleaning the pistons I use 0000 steel wool to get the junk off and clean the caliper walls. Slip a new seal on the piston and reinstall and move on to the next. Only use DOT 3 or 4 to clean and lube. My 2¢

[bongobobny]

Ok, Clive, NICE SETUP!!

 

Jack, never teried that method but sounds like it works good! I've never been that lucky to get all 4 to pop off together. Maybe two, but once one pops out all the compressed air takes the path of least resistance! Usually though, when one pops the other three are almost ready to come out and I can get them out by hand, or by taking a pair of needlenose pliers INSIDE the round part of the piston and while holding them open, pull them out the rest of the way. I clean pistons with solvent then buff them out with my metal polishing wheel.

 

Depends on what shape the cylinders are in as to whether I just hit 'em up with very fine emery paper or get out the hone...

[Condor]

It actually works very well Bob. I think I made a mistake... imagine that!.... in the decription in that the thick part needs to be half the size of the opening. The thin ply needs to span all the way across. That way three pistons are blocked and only one has the space to let the piston come out... Besides it's fun blasting them out of there... :-)

[camos]

The other day I noticed the left front rotor was a bit rusty. Today I took the caliper off and found three of the pistons were stuck. Spent half the day pushing the pistons out, cleaning them then pushing them back in. It was downright tiresome. Is there a better way to clean the pistons? I have never taken a caliper apart. If the pistons were not stopped would they pop out of the caliper?

 

Discovered an interesting detail today though. The two pins that hold the pads are directional and must be inserted from a particular side or there is not enough clearance to insert the cotter pins. So remember from which side you removed the pins or you might have to spend 15 minutes scratching your head with dirty fingers.

[camos]

Spent half the day pushing the pistons out, cleaning them then pushing them back in. It was downright tiresome. Is there a better way to clean the pistons? I have never taken a caliper apart. If the pistons were not stopped would they pop out of the caliper?

Rather than waiting forever for an answer, I checked with Google and it appears the pistons should just pop out. Seems there are O-rings in the cylinder and nothing on the pistons. Probably much quicker to pop them out and use some 600+ grit to clean the cylinder walls.

[camos]

For a couple of weeks I had been experiencing one or more brakes dragging after 5-10 min almost to the point of seizing up. The problem could be cleared by stopping then pushing back and forth until the affected brake relaxed. After doing that I could proceed without any difficulty until the bike was shut off for a length of time.

 

The temps were around freezing so I thought perhaps there was some air in the system, air carries moisture which can freeze. Pure speculation of course. Got into it the day before yesterday.

 

To the point of this message:

While merrily pumping the lever to blast fluid through the right front I hit a point where there was very little pressure. Oops!!! Pumped the reservoir dry. Had to start over so filled the reservoir right up to the top and started pumping again but this time I had a quick look a couple of times. When a big bubble of air came out at the bleeder I stopped. What I discovered that could be of interest to others is from full to the brim down to about 1/4" +/- is the capacity of the right front brake line. Unfortunately, I did not think to count the number of pumps necessary to get to the point of refilling before going too far. Could be useful to know how many pumps is safe before disaster strikes.

 

About the dragging issue:

Bleeding the right front did not produce any amount of air besides the big bubble I had created.

Decided to tackle the rear caliper. Gack!!! What a job. Pulling the side right bag was fun...Not! The rear pads looked like they may have been from 1989 with seriously rusted plates. Perhaps not that old though since the pads looked almost full thickness. Three out of the four pistons were either seized or sticky with just one that operated reasonably well. Out of sight, out of mind I guess. Swapped the caliper for the one from my 90 VR.

 

Time to rebuild the three spare calipers. Then change them out and do the remaining three.

It never ends.

 

Went for a ride yesterday, after bleeding the rear, the middle and the left front, and it all seemed to be working fine. It was mid 40's though so perhaps I'll find out if the issue has gone away when we get back into freezing temps in a couple of days.