stator ...charging

[jlh3rd]

ok....installed the venture running lights (07).....hooked up my heated gloves,vest, pants.....rode for about an hour....discharged battery......( yes, system is charging correctly)...

 

i know of only one co. that has an upgrade stator...has anyone done this upgrade and have you had any problems...is this the only co.

do i have to worry about hurting the stock rectfier, wires etc. ?

how easy an install is it.....

 

thanks

[Eck]

you have mail..........................

[1BigDog]

John, I recently installed one in my 99, purchased from Buckeye Performance. If your mechanically inclined its not that tough of a job to do. On a scale of 1-10 id say its about a 7. You will be getting into the motor and the wiring will have to be hard wired rather then plugged together. Everything else should be fine.

[GeorgeS]

Have you Inspected the Plug at the Rectifyer/Regulator Unit.

 

Pull it out and carefully inspect the condition of the Pins, for corrosion, and

any sign of overheating of the pins.

[1BigDog]

Have you Inspected the Plug at the Rectifyer/Regulator Unit.

 

Pull it out and carefully inspect the condition of the Pins, for corrosion, and

any sign of overheating of the pins.

 

Yea...that too.....wonder what made me think of it???

[V7Goose]

First, I believe your charging system WAS overloaded with what you described. You didn't say if you used stock driving lights, but if you used 50 watt bulbs instead of stock 30 watt-ers, then you were way overloaded.

 

HOWEVER, even in the worst case, there is no way a good battery would have been discharged in an hour, or even 5 hours of steady riding. That overload only discharges the battery by the marginal amount of the load OVER the charging capacity, so what really happens is that a battery fails to fully charge during each use and fails completely over time - weeks or months. You need to find out what else is wrong before making any other changes.

Goose

[pegscraper]

If the stator capacity was overloaded enough, the battery can wear down in one ride. If the accessories can't get enough juice from the stator, they will get it from the battery. And if the demand is high enough, it can happen in one ride. I've done it before on another bike. It doesn't mean that there's anything else wrong. Shut some of the accessories off, jump start the bike, and go. You simply either have to reduce the load, or get a bigger stator.

[GeorgeS]

How old is this battery ??

 

What type of battery is it?? (lead Acid )

 

Was it " Fully " charged when you started this test.

 

Have you been useing a Trickle Charger, and thinking that that Trickle charger

would " FULLY " charge the battery ???

--

----------- IT WILL NOT FULLY CHARGE THE BATTERY -- It will cut of at a specificed voltage. This does not mean the battery is Fully Charged !!!

 

I know everybody does not agree with me on that point, however I did work in an Aircraft Battery Overhaul Shop, for 6 months for a commercial Airline. I do know a bit about battery charging.

 

If you don't have a 2-6 Amp Automobile Battery Charger, get one, recharge your battery, and run your test ride again !!

 

If it still goes dead, you need a New Battery, I'm going to guess your battery is OVER 3 years Old. ( IF so, time to replace, sorry )

 

Point!! A Trickle Charger, is for Keeping a " FULLY CHARGED " battery at that State of charge, During Storage,

AFTER ITS BEEN FULLY CHARGED !!!!

[MAINEAC]

George I have different results with my Diehard Battery Charger/Maintainer... When my stator went bad I was still doing some riding locally while my stator was being shipped... A couple of times I barely made it home and my radio wouldn't even play by the time I parked it in the shed... I'd plug in my Diehard and next day my battery was fully charged.. My Diehard is the Sears version of the Battery Tender..

 

Item Description: Charge your battery from inside the vehicle! Fully Automatic Battery Charger/Maintainer with Float Mode Monitoring for 6 and 12 volt batteries. 2 Amp, 12 Volt/4 Amp, 6 Volt slow charge with Reverse Hook-Up Protection is ideal for keeping stored, lead-acid batteries charged and power maintained at all times. Great for Motorcycle, Lawn Tractor, ATV, Snowmobile size batteries and to maintain larger Car, RV, Boat, Deep Cycle, Antique and Classic Car batteries too! Includes: 50 amp battery clamps, 12V accessory plug and permanent ring connectors for fast, easy charging every time.

 

http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/18/4/AAAAAkFuxhgAAAAAABhM0A.jpg

[GeorgeS]

If this unit charges at a 2 amp rate, then its a Charger !!!

 

On the photo U show, front says " Charger " Thats what you have.

 

When I refer to " Trickle" charger, Most of these units put out very low current. And cut Off when Battery voltage hits about 12.2 volts.

 

However the " Specific Gravity " of the Acid/water solution may still only be at about 1/4 of fully charged.

 

2 AMP rate, should fully charge a motorcycle battery in about 8 to 10 hours, assumeing its almost dead.

 

OK How do you know a Battery --- IS --- Actually fully charged ( lead acid battery that is )

 

By monitoring the Current Draw on the Charger, for the Automatic Units. When the current draw gets down to about 1/4 Amp, its better then 90 percent charged.

 

Buy a Charger, with an AMP METER ON IT !!!!!!

 

The Second method for testing and best Method, but a bit messy, is to use a Hydrometer.

 

You can order a Small Hydrometer for Motorcycle batteries at most any Auto Parts stores. Nobody Stocks them!! but they can order them. Cost about $5.00, and a good investment.

 

Charge for 8 hours at 2 amp rate, then check each cell with Hydrometer, if all 6 Cells are showing good Specific Gravity, your battery is Good.

 

If even one Cell is Low on Specific Gravity, you might as well go shopping.

 

As to any Unit that says " Trickle Charger" on it, thats what you have a unit that will maintain the battery at its current state, bye " trickling " a little bit of current into it. They are for " Storage Periods " !!!!! They are not for charging up a Dead Battery !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There might be some exceptions. But Darn it folks, Buy yourself a Good Battery Charger if you are going to Ride a Motorcycle !!! Its money Well Spent.

 

And get a Hydrometer also !! --- http://www.atvpartsstore.com/atv_battery_hydrometer.html# ( example )

Funny, I have never heard anybody on this web site, Mention " Hydrometer " ???

Edited January 4, 2009 by GeorgeS

[jlh3rd]

thanks eck........i read those posts....

 

i'm not trouble shooting the system as it is well known that the 2nd gen has a weak charging system........i just needed input from anyone using the buckeye stator and installaton advice........i've downloaded the installation.........

[V7Goose]

I just have to respond and correct some of this. I generally agree with the sentiment, but some of it simply does not apply to us.

 

First, the current output of a charger is NOT an absolute indicator of how well it either charges or maintains a battery - this is much more a function of the electronics in the unit. And actually good chargers generally are not the cheap ones. Other comments inserted below:

If this unit charges at a 2 amp rate, then its a Charger !!!

 

On the photo U show, front says " Charger " Thats what you have.

 

When I refer to " Trickle" charger, Most of these units put out very low current. And cut Off when Battery voltage hits about 12.2 volts.

A lead-acid battery is not considered fully charged unless it is at 12.7 volts or higher

(12.8 for our maintenance free battery)

.

However the " Specific Gravity " of the Acid/water solution may still only be at about 1/4 of fully charged.

 

2 AMP rate, should fully charge a motorcycle battery in about 8 to 10 hours, assuming its almost dead.

Actually, the Yuasa tech manual states that a constant current charger at the standard rate (see sticker on the top of your battery) takes 20 hours to charge a battery from 0-25% charge. The VOLTAGE the charger puts out will have more of an impact on how long it charges than the amp capacity - Higher voltage pushes more current. Of course, for a charger to work and not ruin the battery, it must appropriately match the voltage and current to the condition of the battery. Automatic chargers taper off as the battery comes near full charge.

OK How do you know a Battery --- IS --- Actually fully charged ( lead acid battery that is )

 

By monitoring the Current Draw on the Charger, for the Automatic Units. When the current draw gets down to about 1/4 Amp, its better then 90 percent charged.

This is absolutely NOT true for all chargers, but it does apply to the majority of home chargers. But even with an automatic home charger, a battery in poor condition can continue to suck current at a higher rate even when it hits 12.7 volts. Proper testing of a battery for full charge is considerably more complicated.

Buy a Charger, with an AMP METER ON IT !!!!!!

 

The Second method for testing and best Method, but a bit messy, is to use a Hydrometer.

Yes, but this rarely applies at all today.

You can order a Small Hydrometer for Motorcycle batteries at most any Auto Parts stores. Nobody Stocks them!! but they can order them. Cost about $5.00, and a good investment.

 

Charge for 8 hours at 2 amp rate, then check each cell with Hydrometer, if all 6 Cells are showing good Specific Gravity, your battery is Good.

 

If even one Cell is Low on Specific Gravity, you might as well go shopping.

 

As to any Unit that says " Trickle Charger" on it, thats what you have a unit that will maintain the battery at its current state, bye " trickling " a little bit of current into it. They are for " Storage Periods " !!!!! They are not for charging up a Dead Battery !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There might be some exceptions. But Darn it folks, Buy yourself a Good Battery Charger if you are going to Ride a Motorcycle !!! Its money Well Spent.

 

And get a Hydrometer also !! --- http://www.atvpartsstore.com/atv_battery_hydrometer.html# ( example )

Funny, I have never heard anybody on this web site, Mention " Hydrometer " ???

No, this isn't funny at all. You cannot use a hydrometer on a sealed battery; therefore, it is of ZERO use on our bikes!

 

And a few more comments for good measure - You cannot tell the actual charge state of a battery immediately after charging (or right after riding)! All lead-acid batteries have a "surface charge" that must be dissipated before you can get a valid voltage test. You do this by either letting it sit for 2-3 hours or applying an appropriate load for between 10 seconds and three minutes (depending on the load).

 

Even if the voltage remains at or above 12.7 (slightly lower in cold temps) after the surface charge is gone, still no guaranties until you do a load test. Most auto parts stores will perform the load test for free, but you need to know the cold cranking amp (CCA) rating of the battery when you take it in (look it up on the web - I don't remember what ours is off hand).

 

Finally, if you buy a new battery and just put it in the bike without properly charging it FIRST, your battery will never reach full charge or last as long as it should. and unfortunately, almost no shops will properly prepare a battery before they install it. Seems that everyone incorrectly thinks that the initial dry-charge or factory charge on the battery is just fine and ready to use. NOT so.

Goose

[V7Goose]

thanks eck........i read those posts....

 

i'm not trouble shooting the system as it is well known that the 2nd gen has a weak charging system........i just needed input from anyone using the buckeye stator and installaton advice........i've downloaded the installation.........

I said this once, and even though not everyone may agree, I think I need to stress it one more time - You DO have another problem! If your battery was dead after only one hour riding as you originally stated, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM much worse than our weak stock charging system (and actually, there is nothing "weak" about our charging system, it works fine, but simply does not have EXCESS capacity to handle increased loads we might want to add to the bike). You say you are not troubleshooting the system, but you need to.

 

The problem could simply be that your battery was not even close to full charge when you started. But if it wasn't, you need to know why. Either a bad battery of something else wrong with your charging system BEFORE you added the extra load. Maybe you just never ride your bike long enough to fully recharge the battery after starting? Of course you are free to ignore it if you want, and I won't harp on it any more.

Goose

[BEER30]

Screw it ! You all are to confusing .

I'm going to get a solar panel and mount it on top of my helmet . Going solar powered to say the least . Night time , I'll hold a flashlight over the top of my head or point it towards incoming traffic head lights .

 

 

 

BEER30

[jlh3rd]

goose

 

i appreciate all input.......the battery was brought up to a full charge the day before using a battery tender ( the original battery tender).....i rode out to the club house for our polar bear ride....30 mins........then rode another 20 mins to a diner.............i could feel the heat in the clothes........sat for an hour...........then rode about an hour back home , mostly on four lane, 70 mph.....the gloves had stopped feeling warm and so were the pants........bike sat 4 hrs, i went to go start it up ,.and no start........pushed started it......got my tester...peaked about 13.7v with no running lights or heated equipment......not at idle.....turned on the running lights, voltage went to about 13.2v........bike has about 8,000 miles on it.........purchased new......so i know the bike

it doesn't matter if the battery is weak........if the charging system can't handle the load.....as many posts on this site state......then it can't handle the load.....thats the bottom line.......but, you know what , i will check the connector....

as a matter of fact....in older cars. , one way to test the alternator was to pull the negative cable off the battery and see if the car would still run........don't do this on a computer car........the battery doesn't really matter if the charging system is working......

[V7Goose]

It's your bike . . .

[friesman]

Screw it ! You all are to confusing .

I'm going to get a solar panel and mount it on top of my helmet . Going solar powered to say the least . Night time , I'll hold a flashlight over the top of my head or point it towards incoming traffic head lights .

 

 

 

BEER30

 

Wont all that tinfoil on your helmet interfere with the solar panel and possibly electrocute you, gene? Or have the visitors stopped talking to you? :rotfl:

 

Brian :rotfl:

[pegscraper]

Yeah, and I'll say this again too. Asking more current than the stator can supply and wearing down the battery because of it does not mean there is another problem. Go looking for one and you'll eventually realize you're chasing ghosts. Been there, done that. Listen to the voice of experience. All it means it that the stator couldn't meet the demand and the battery wore down trying to supply it. Either reduce the demand or get a bigger stator. But of course, y'all are welcome to believe what ever you like and find your own way on the thing.

[jlh3rd]

uh huh

 

is that right goose??

 

listen, you don't wanna help....keep your comments to yourself........ok.......

[Squeeze]

uh huh

 

is that right goose??

 

listen, you don't wanna help....keep your comments to yourself........ok.......

 

Oh, i'm sure he wants to help. It's just you choose to NOT listen to his Help and by the prehistoric Testing Procedures you mentioned, you just gonna ruin your Ride. That's why he said, "it's your Bike".

 

Don't be offended or thin skinned, it's a Motorcycle Forum here, not a Chrochet Club.

[V7Goose]

uh huh

 

is that right goose??

 

listen, you don't wanna help....keep your comments to yourself........ok.......

Please do not be offended, for no offense was intended.

 

"Uh huh" was simply to say that I heard you. I DID choose to keep any additional comments to myself, but since you seem to not have understood that, I'll elaborate just a little. In MY opinion, you seem to have a very poor understanding of the subject. I had no reason to post the information in your thread at all other than simply trying to help you (and any others who might have similar problems). I offered an explanation in a spirit of helpfulness, but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears. That's OK - I have absolutely no stake in this, so once I knew you had at least heard me, I had no reason to harp on it any longer. And like I said, it IS your bike. Meaning you are free to do anything to it you desire, and it won't bother me at all. I am truly sorry that you chose to take offense at that or that I said things in such a way to upset you.

Goose

[jlh3rd]

oh, i'm sorry.......didn't realize that using a digital volt/ohm meter was archaic..........and that using pasts posts on this forum over the years that specifically describe a known weak system on this bike and using those posts by intelligent people to come to a realization that my bike has the same problem.......was being archaic........

[Squeeze]

I rest my Case

[GeorgeS]

If we Assume, Every part of your Charging system, is working properly, AND, your battery is in Very Good Condition. ( if it over 3 years old , its not )

 

You can now Fully charge the Battery, and drive down the road with the OEM Equipment that was Installed by the Factory, and everything should be just fine !!

 

 

IF --- You add ---- Heated Gloves, Pants, Jacket, and Two 55 Watt Running lights, and a GAGLE of extra tail lights, and anyghing else you might have added to the bike, then you are Over loading the System .

 

Result---- If your TOTAL Current Draw Exceeds, the Ouput Capacity of your Alternator, and Rectier/Regulator system, THE BATTERY WILL SLOWLY GO DEAD.

I would estimate you would have 5 to 10 hours of driveing time. If you leave with a fully charged battery ( at cruzing speed )

 

Total up the combined Current Draw, of ALL the added accessories that you have added.

 

Now add this to the current draw of the OEM Equipment.

 

Are you Exceeding the Capacity of your charging system ??

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, I'm looking at page 8-16 of my 1st Gen Service Manual.

 

Specifications section : ( 1st gen Venture, 2nd gen may be different )

 

A.C. Generator: Nominal Output = 14V at 30 Amps, at 5,000 RPM

-------------------------------------------- 25 Amps, at 2,500 RPM

-------------------------------------------- 20 Amps, at 1,800 RPM

-------------------------------------------- 10 Amps, at 0,900 RPM

 

Note: !!!!! here that your average engine speed will have an effect as to

the actual charging rate, as you drive down the road, { unless your going 70 MPH its not running at the full 30 AMP Rate }

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

One more thing that can be done. Add an " AMP Meter " between the 40 Amp Main Fuse, and the Battery Positive Terminal--

 

Now you can monitor wether the Battery is being " Charged " or " Discharged" as you drive down the road. ( this is not debatable ) (( Its OHMS LAW ))

 

---------------------------------

 

IF you Draw MORE Current from the Battery then the Charging sysetm is produceing then your battery will slowly discharge, as you drive down the road.

And the Driveing Speed will effect the rate:

 

--------------------------

 

IF you draw more then 30 AMPS total, the battery will slowly go dead.

( this is not debatable )

 

Ohms Law, works the same for everybody--

[GeorgeS]

1. Two 55 Watt Running Lights = 110 Watts, = 8.66 Amps current draw

( P= IxE)

------- Watts = Current x Voltage

------- Current = Watts / Voltage

I = P/E

110 Watts / 12.2 Volts = 9 Amps Draw

 

2. Heated Gloves 1.8 Amp Draw

3. Heated Vest 3.0 Amp Draw

4. Heated Chaps 2.8 Amp Draw

----------------------------------

--------Total 7.6 Amp total extra Draw. ( for clothing ) ( Based on current draw from heated clothing mfg. web site )

 

Ok, your total--- "" Extra ""--- Current draw on your charging system is " about " 16 Amps --( clothing, and running lights ) --

depending on the settings of the heated clothing. (with 2, extra 55 Watt driveing lights)

 

--- So, If you were driveing at an average Engine RPM of about, 2500 RPM ( see spec section for Alternator output )

 

Then your charging system was putting out about an average of 25 Amps.

( Your Alternator only puts out Full 30 Amps, at 4000 RPM, ie. about 70 MPH )

 

About 16 amps of this was being used by your Added Accessories.

 

--- Now add to this any extra light bulbs you may have added ---

 

You had about 9 amps left for ALL of the OEM Equipment Installed on the bike.

 

So, add about 16 Amps to whatever the Normal Current draw would be on this bike, With ---NO ADDED ACCESSORIES -- Whats that number? I don't know, but I will assume its About 18 to 20 Amps ---

 

So if you add, 16 Amps of current draw, 20 Plus 16, you have 36 Amps, and if you were drivein at an average of 2500 RPM, then you were OVERLOADING THE SYSTEM !! Sorry, but Thats OHMs LAW, and it applies to everybody !!!

Democrats, and Republicans, and whoever else you can think of.

( Even an Electrical Genius Like me, can't get around that one !!!! I know, I tried, and it don't work !! )

 

Try turning OFF the Running lights, when you need to use all of the Heated Clothing.

 

OR--- UPGRADE the STATOR, and Install " TWO " Odyessy, Dry Cell Batteries in Parrallel, Thats what I did--

---It works.

 

---I can go for about 4 hours with Everything turned on-- ( Extra lights, and heated clothing, extra tail lights, Ham Radio Gear, CB, and whatever else I can turn on at the same time. ) At 65 to 70 MPH highway cruzeing speed. ( But, not jogging around town at 30 MPH to 40 MPH )

 

And even if Both of the Odyessy ( dry cell ) Batteries are Down by 20 to 30 percent after 4 to 5 hours of running time in a OVERLOADED CONDITION, I can park the bike, and next morning it will start just fine !!!

WHY?? Cause the Odyessy Batteries put out 3 times the Cranking Amps of any Lead Acid Battery.

So I still have Twice the Cranking Amps avialable as a Fully Charged, NEW, LEAD ACID BATTERY !!!!!

 

 

P.S. My numbers may be OFF a little, but they are ball park figures, and close enough for this discussion. So please don't anybody come up with any minor math corrections here !!

Edited January 5, 2009 by GeorgeS