Tartan Terror Posted September 21, 2008 Share #1 Posted September 21, 2008 The last two times I rode the bike Ive been getting a knock from the engine. Like a tap tap tap sound that goes away or so it seams when I rev it up but at idle it sounds like some thing wants to come through the water pump cover. I wanted to make sure it wasnt something else so I changed the oil back to the amsoil that I usually use. I used Spectro the last time and it had never been there before. Well the knock is still there and It concerns me so much that I wont ride it that way. Anybody have any ideas? Should I pull off the cover and last but not least is this something that is common. I been here quite a while and havent seen any threads on this but maybe I wasnt looking. I did do a search but frankly the search here is not the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted September 21, 2008 Share #2 Posted September 21, 2008 First time I heard of a noise from Water Pump, either 1st gen or 2nd gen. Try a stethascope to pinpoint the noise to the water pump, IF, thats where its comeing from. Might be the Impeller in the water pump. ?? If its the water pump, all the parts, to rebuild it run about $100 bucks. Fairly easy job to do. Just pull the parts off, one at a time, and then reassemble with new parts, and all new seals. New Bearing, new seal, and maby new impeller. Not hard to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSTDinPA Posted September 21, 2008 Share #3 Posted September 21, 2008 i came back from a 200mi run yesterday. Bike ran great and returned 49 mpg...really good if you ask me. When I got home, I hear a loud knocking. At first I thought it was coming from the water pump. Then I listened closely and realized it was coming from both front cylinders (mostly left front). I held a rag on the valve covers and could actually feel the knocking. I was bummed. This morning I started her up and she was quiet at first, but once warmed up, the knocking came back. I was thinking the worst (my bike just turned 16k miles). I added a few ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil to both the oil and gas and rode for about 25 miles. The engine is as quiet as it ever was...no more knocking. I am now thinking that something was sticking. In any case, give the Marvel Mystery Oil a try. It really is a great product. BTW, I added about 3 oz to the oil and about 8 oz to the gas. seems to have "unstuck" whatever was causing the knock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted September 22, 2008 Im a little leary of putting Marvel Mystery in it as I fear it will make the clutch slip. Im gonna poke around some more later and see if the knock is really near the water pump. If so I think I will pull it apart and see if the problem is obvious. has anyone else had problems in this area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvrT Posted September 22, 2008 Share #5 Posted September 22, 2008 Not sure if it's exactly the same as yours but both this bike and my '85 have an intermittent "knocking" sound coming from the water pump area. I totally rebuilt the water pump on my '85 and it didn't make a lick of difference. Because of that and since it's intermittent and never seemed to be a "real" problem, I simply ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted September 22, 2008 mine actually knocks pretty good. And now its all the time. Concerns me quite a bit. Enough that I wont ride the bike until I figure it out. Also it figures that the warranty expired in July. Mow im not sure and I didnt really look for it but the oil that came out was not the best looking and it had only about 1500-2000 mile on it. Not sure if I would consider it milky. I put the Amsoil back in. Now here is the million dol question. If the water pump bearing goes or something like that will it tear a seal and allow a little water into the oil? Has anyone had a water pump go and what did it do. Really getting a little nervous here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93 venture Posted September 22, 2008 Share #7 Posted September 22, 2008 I remember reading a thread on hear about a noise like that and they sinked the carbs and the noise went away,i have heared that noise from the pump before but it was always hot and rpms were below 900, i just figured it was the gears knocking at low rpms between cylinder fires.I had Squid sink my carbs and dont think i have heared that noise again,but my idle is set at 1000 rpms too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil86 Posted September 22, 2008 Share #8 Posted September 22, 2008 Tartan... the water pump has one bearing and 2 seals....one on the oil side, and then one on the coolant side. You have a weep hole in between the seals (open hole on 1st gen, hose drain on 2nd) so if the drain is clear any seal leakage some drip out. You can unhook the hose and verify the hole is free. Personally I would investigate as the driven gear for the pump is plastic. You can try synching the carbs first. Did you try pulling in clutch in case its the discs rattling in the basket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93 venture Posted September 22, 2008 Share #9 Posted September 22, 2008 I found the thread http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25271&highlight=knock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted September 22, 2008 Share #10 Posted September 22, 2008 I'm thinking the only thing in the water pump that could make "noise " would be the Bearing. ( unless there is a chunk broken off the Impeller. Not likley though ) If the " SEAL " were leaking, there would be leakage of Anti Freez, from the Weep Hole on the bottom side of the Pump. ( yes there is a weep hole ) If the Seal is leaking, you -- might -- be getting anti freez into the oil. I did have leakage, I replaced the Seal, and Bearing, and there are also several O-Rings involved with the pump rebuild. If you do the pump rebuild, be sure to order ALL of the O-Rings shown on the IPC. Also, the Seals for the 1 inch Diameter plastic pipe going from the Pump to the Thermostate houseing. Also, if you decide to replace the Thermostate, be sure to get new gasket and O-Ring for that also. However, I would get a stethascope, and try to Isolate the Noise, before you start ripping and tearing. Also, do a Compression Check. This might pin point a Valve lifter problem. Maby you just need a Valve Adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share #11 Posted September 22, 2008 Good info guys. Im gonna resync tonight as a first step and then go from there. If that doesnt make it any better Im gonna pull the cover and see what is going on in there. Keep the ideas coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boominup Posted September 22, 2008 Share #12 Posted September 22, 2008 Good info guys. Im gonna resync tonight as a first step and then go from there. If that doesnt make it any better Im gonna pull the cover and see what is going on in there. Keep the ideas coming! Back in the spring, after I pulled my 03 out of hibernation, I started her up and I couldn't believe the racket coming out of that engine. It was not running as smooth as when I put it away for the winter so I changed the oil again, with no better results for noise. I synched the carbs and Voila! No more noise. This happened once more this summer and the racket goes away with a good carb synch job. It seems that with the carbs being out of balance, the engine picks up backlash from the valvetrain, tranny gears or the clutch somewhere and really resonates through the bottom end. In the future, I'll keep that as a sign for "Time To Synchronize"! Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted September 23, 2008 Well I did the Sync and no change. It was pretty much right on. I did get one of those stethescope things and the noise pretty much still traces right to the water pump. To eliminate anything deeper I tried the heads and the crankcase from the other side too. Still it keeps going right to that cover so it will come off probably on Weds. If any one else has some ideas let me know. What kind of scares me about all this is that really no one here has seemed to have this problem. Is it that unique? If so why mine and no one elses. They are all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flb_78 Posted September 23, 2008 Share #14 Posted September 23, 2008 Is the driven gear really plastic? If it is, then it could be worn enough or even cracked and causing the knock. I know the GM 2.5 liter engine used a plastic cam gear and after about 50,000 miles, it knocked so bad you'd think the engine was coming apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipshot Posted September 23, 2008 Share #15 Posted September 23, 2008 Well I did the Sync and no change. It was pretty much right on. I did get one of those stethescope things and the noise pretty much still traces right to the water pump. To eliminate anything deeper I tried the heads and the crankcase from the other side too. Still it keeps going right to that cover so it will come off probably on Weds. If any one else has some ideas let me know. What kind of scares me about all this is that really no one here has seemed to have this problem. Is it that unique? If so why mine and no one elses. They are all the same. Scot! that "knocking " noise is not unique to you , or your '03! i have heard from reliable sources, that it is common on ALL 2003's that are owned by "tire salesmen who wear a skirt, and are blowhards"(ain't that what they call bagpipers?)! lol sorry i can't help you any more than that! just jt:bagpipes-emoticon::crackup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share #16 Posted September 23, 2008 Scot! that "knocking " noise is not unique to you , or your '03! i have heard from reliable sources, that it is common on ALL 2003's that are owned by "tire salesmen who wear a skirt, and are blowhards"(ain't that what they call bagpipers?)! lol sorry i can't help you any more than that! just jt:bagpipes-emoticon::crackup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
az1103 Posted September 23, 2008 Share #17 Posted September 23, 2008 My vote vould be that it's the gear.... At $11.25 you bet it's plastic and if it chipped or wore-out and wabbles - that would knock. See Item 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted September 23, 2008 Share #18 Posted September 23, 2008 Scottie, now that you pretty much neared that down to the Water Pump, drain the Coolant and knock that Thing off and take a Look inside. It seems to be quite uncommon, but nevertheless, it can happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSTDinPA Posted September 23, 2008 Share #19 Posted September 23, 2008 I have experienced no clutchslippage at all with just a couple ounces added. I would recommend you try the Marvel Mystery oil in both gas and oil....ride until the knocking stops and change your oil of you are worried about clutch slippage. It really worked for me, and the knocking I experienced could be felt by holding a rag on the motor. I read about someone who added energy conserving oil to their bike, and did experience clutch slipping. They changed their oil, added the marvel to clean it up, drained the oil, added fresh oil...no more slipping. I think it is more of a cleaning agent than a friction modifier. I have now gone almost 300 miles since adding the couple ounces of to the crankcase and gas. No knocking, no clutch slipping. I will likely change the oil when I get home tonight just to have pure oil in it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share #20 Posted September 23, 2008 Ok. Rip the Water pump off it is. I been looking at the diagram and its no big deal. I would try the Marvel except for one thing. It wont get into the water pump anyway. I checked all the area and it is loudest behind that cover. If it was deaper in the engine I would try that first but it almost literally feels like its right below the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyHorse Posted September 23, 2008 Share #21 Posted September 23, 2008 I have the same noise plus a slight clutch rattle plus a whine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted September 23, 2008 Share #22 Posted September 23, 2008 I have the same noise plus a slight clutch rattle plus a whine. Now, that's pretty obvious the Way of your Bikes saying that it's still alive and kicking .... :thumbsup2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted September 24, 2008 Share #23 Posted September 24, 2008 Scott, I am by no means an expert, but I have heard on some of the 1st gens had plastic impeller, I have never pulled that system apart. Yours would be a rarity if at 50K it went out, but it's obviously not impossible. I can't think of anything else that would cause a sound like your describing beside a bad impeller or the drive gear. I would just make sure that your anti freeze level is good before you tear it all apart. I have heard knocking from low coolant but it doesn't sound like this is what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share #24 Posted September 24, 2008 Ok I pulled it all apart and it looked ok which leaves me perplexed. Only thing that I saw was that a snap ring that looked weak. I think it was in the groove on the shaft but if it wasnt it would allow for the impeller to hit against the cover. No marks on the inside of the cover or on the impeller. The gear in there is indeed plastic and it looked ok. As long as its apart Im gonna change the bearing and all the seals. I also plan to change the spring that keeps tension on it. Now I have no Idea. If I put it all back together and it still knocks then what? Can it be something else in that area that tranmits the noise out of the cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted September 24, 2008 Share #25 Posted September 24, 2008 Scott, The only other thing I can think of, if it's NOT the water pump components is the cams. These being overhead valves with shims on top of the valves might be out of spec. It would be easy if it had hydraulic lifters as from what you describe, might be constrewed as that if we had lifters on these bikes. Just hit me....what about the cam chain tensioners any motorheads here have a thought on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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