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Old 04-02-2012, 10:48 AM
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Default Shindengen voltage regulator

I know there was a group buy for the Shindengen voltage regulators, but I didn't buy one then. Now I see that the Shindengen is a series voltage regulator, not a shunt regulator like the original. This means that the stator will be cooler because full current won't always be flowing, and should last longer. Does anybody know a good place to buy one??

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Old 04-03-2012, 08:13 AM
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Yea....bump..... I'd like to know too
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:28 AM
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I've not been able to connect with my former guy at Indian motorcycles, that's where our previous group buy came from, was trying last fall.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:15 AM
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Here's the Shindengen web listing for what looks like their rectifier.... Maybe someone can do a little more research about them.

http://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/reg.html
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:44 AM
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The FH012 RR you have in the first post is still shorting the excess power to ground. just like the original Yami one does.

This one SH775 does not short the excess power to ground and will result in a cooler running stator. Althoough I think I would prefer the SHxx1 once they release it just to have some reserve on current carrying ability.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:34 AM
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Default FET Shidengen FH012AA

I believe the FET's in the shindengen FH012AA don't just short or shunt all excess/unused stator current to ground. The use of the FET instead of a regular high current diode means the control module can shut off the conduction of each FET individually depending on the voltage level on the output rails. The low conduction resistance of the FET and the ability to control WHEN it conducts is the great advantage of using the FET in a rectifier application. This results in low heat buildup and longer life of the unit.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:56 PM
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The Shindengen web side describes the SH012 series as "shorting" the stator to achieve regulation. This will allow the RR to remain nice and cool but is not doing the stator any favors.

The one I listed achieves regulation by cutting the power from the stator. This means that the RR will run hotter but the stator will run cooler.

Ideal would be if someone were to make a switching regulator. It would be expensive and possibly big, but both the RR and the stator would run cool. I have yet to see one available.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:10 PM
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Default Series or shunt regulator

Jeff,

I think the Shindengen web site has some translation problems.... the FH012 regulator (the FET version) is not a shunt regulator, but they call it one. But in the same description, it says it has lower loss. The two don't go together. The schematic looks to me like the FETs act both as the negative portion of the diodes and also provides the regulation by only conducting as much as necessary for the proper output voltage.

Frank
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:43 PM
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Default Another way to tell

I just went out and measured the stator current on my bike with a clamp on digital ammeter. At idle, I had about 9.5A, and at 3500 RPM, I had about 23A. This is with a heavy duty stator and a stock Yammie regulator. The DC output in the red lead between the regulator and the battery was about 10.5 A With a series regulator, I would think that the stator current would stay reasonably constant compared to RPM, not go up like mine does.

Does anybody have a Shindengen MOSFET regulator installed and also have access to a clamp on ammeter? This would be an answer to a lot of our questions. I live about 50 miles SW of downtown Chicago, and if there is anybody with the MOSFET regulator installed around here, we could get together and make this measurement.

Frank
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankd View Post
I know there was a group buy for the Shindengen voltage regulators, but I didn't buy one then. Now I see that the Shindengen is a series voltage regulator, not a shunt regulator like the original. This means that the stator will be cooler because full current won't always be flowing, and should last longer. Does anybody know a good place to buy one??

Shoot a PM to skydoc_17. He's selling a Shindengen unit I beleive.
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:43 PM
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Default Series or Shunt?

I have had the shindengen FH0012AA regulator since 2009 on my '89 XVZ12. I always thought it was a series regulator. But with all this discussion saying it was a shunt type got me to thinking.

I decided to buy a 50 amp current shunt (50mv=50A) and test the DC current on the output from the regulator to battery (+) connection and on one of the stator lines running from the stator to the regulator.

If the shindengen FH0012AA is a series regulator, then the output of the regulator to the battery should vary by the load applied to the electrical system. This would be the battery charging current and any other loads ( engine TCI, lights and cooling fan). So I hooked it up between the output of the regulator and the positive post of the battery and started up the bike. The current read about 4 amps @ 14.3V without any other additional loads other than the TCI and battery charging current. I made sure the battery was fully charged before doing any of the testing. I then turned on the headlight on highbeam, current went up a couple of amps. Then I turned on the cooling fan, the current from the regulator went up the 11-12 amps @ 14.3V. At all RPMs the current from the regulator only varied due to the electrical load applied (lights or fan turned on or off). NO real suprise there since either a shunt or a series regulator should perform in this fashion. This first test was to find out if the charging system was operating in a correct manner to supply the correct voltage and enough current for the loads applied.

I then moved the meter shunt to one of the stator wires running from the stator to the regulator. I spliced the shunt into the lead and verified the connection had little or no resistance (less than .3 ohms). The meter shunt is marked as .5 ohms resistance so my meter is reading close enough for comparison. I then started the bike back up and measured the current flow (amps) through the single stator wire while turning on and off the different electrical loads on the bike ( no load- only TCI, headlights (HI and Lo), and with the cooling fan running). In all cases the current flow to the regulator from the stator on the lead I was testing NEVER went about 4-5 amps on the single stator lead. It cycled from 0 amps up the a reading of 3 to 4 amps and then back off. Just as I would expect for a FET SERIES regulator that was opening up or closing the stator coils as needed to maintain the battery at the 14.3 V setpoint. I also measured the battery voltage during these tests and it stayed at 14.1-14.3 volts at all RPM's.

If this regulator was a shunt type them the stator wire under measurement should have had a higher and more steady current reading. It didn't react like a shunt type of regulator. It reacted exactly like a series type of regulator, controlling the current output according to battery load and maintaining battery voltage at the setpoint at all RPM's.

My stator in my bike is one I had rewound by a specialty shop that specializes in motorcycle stators. It was rewound to increase output as much as the stock stator core would allow (not much) but with modern wire and superior methods of vacuum coating and encapsulation. I am very happy with their work and have had ZERO issues.

The combination of the Shindengen FH0012AA and the rewound stator produce great output (current (amps) and voltage) at all RPM's, from idle to redline.

I have no doubt that this regulator is a SERIES type, it doesn't perform in the manner of a shunt type. The OEM regulator may have been a shunt type, I never tested it. I know the older combination regulator/rectifiers suffered from too much internal resistance in the rectifier section which caused alot of heat gain during operation. The newer generation of Low internal resistance FET rectifiers/regulators don't suffer from high internal resistance and therefore don't produce much heat during operation. Shindengen doesn't even require additional airflow for the loads (25 amps or less) our bikes produce. I know on my bike even with everything turned on with a 15 or 16 amp load on the regulator, the unit is not hot at all.

All this is just to satisfy my curiosity on this shindengen FH0012AA unit and to try and put some real testing with meters instead of relying on the wisdom/speculation of the web. I am satisfied with my testing and have a new tool for future projects (50 amp meter shunt). You can make up your own mind or make your own measurements, your choice. I am done.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:46 PM
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Default Charging system

I then moved the meter shunt to one of the stator wires running from the stator to the regulator. I spliced the shunt into the lead and verified the connection had little or no resistance (less than .3 ohms). The meter shunt is marked as .5 ohms resistance so my meter is reading close enough for comparison. I then started the bike back up and measured the current flow (amps) through the single stator wire while turning on and off the different electrical loads on the bike ( no load- only TCI, headlights (HI and Lo), and with the cooling fan running). In all cases the current flow to the regulator from the stator on the lead I was testing NEVER went about 4-5 amps on the single stator lead. It cycled from 0 amps up the a reading of 3 to 4 amps and then back off. Just as I would expect for a FET SERIES regulator that was opening up or closing the stator coils as needed to maintain the battery at the 14.3 V setpoint. I also measured the battery voltage during these tests and it stayed at 14.1-14.3 volts at all RPM's.

If this regulator was a shunt type them the stator wire under measurement should have had a higher and more steady current reading. It didn't react like a shunt type of regulator. It reacted exactly like a series type of regulator, controlling the current output according to battery load and maintaining battery voltage at the setpoint at all RPM's.

My stator in my bike is one I had rewound by a specialty shop that specializes in motorcycle stators. It was rewound to increase output as much as the stock stator core would allow (not much) but with modern wire and superior methods of vacuum coating and encapsulation. I am very happy with their work and have had ZERO issues.

The combination of the Shindengen FH0012AA and the rewound stator produce great output (current (amps) and voltage) at all RPM's, from idle to redline.

I have no doubt that this regulator is a SERIES type, it doesn't perform in the manner of a shunt type. The OEM regulator may have been a shunt type, I never tested it. I know the older combination regulator/rectifiers suffered from too much internal resistance in the rectifier section which caused alot of heat gain during operation. The



Actually, since I wrote the beggining of this thread, I also have obtained a Shindengen FH012AA regulator. Before I disconnected the Yammie regulator, I took my clamp on AC/DC ammeter and measured the stator current and found that at idle, I had about 11 amps AC, and at about 3,000 RPM, I had about 26 amps AC, on each phase. No matter how much DC current I had flowing through the red and black leads. I turned the headlight on high beam, turned on the driving lights, applied the brakes---the DC current through the red lead went up as expected, but the stator current stayed the same, 26 amps and change. I got the impression by your message that you measured the current in the stator leads with your 50A/50mv shunt. Did you measure the AC voltage accross the shunt when you were measuring the stator current? When I hooked up the Shindengen, I still had 26 amps AC of stator current at about 3,000 RPM no matter how much DC current was being used, so indeed it is a shunt regulator just like the OEM.

Now, the schematic above of the Shindengen gives the impression that it is a series regulator, but I found that schematic on the net and maybe it's not accurate. Also, you are correct that the Shindengen doesn't make much heat. I've heard here that the Yammie regulator uses a zener to regulate the voltage. The alternator system is rated @ 30A D.C. When the battery is fully charged, the bike (lights, ignition, etc.) draws about 11 amps D.C. going down the road. That means the shunt regulator normally disippates about 19 amps, and that would be a lot of heat if it is indeed shunted with a zener diode (It comes out to over 200 Watts, but I can't believe that is so). I wonder if the Shindengen clamps the voltage accross the stator leads at less voltage so that less heat is produced (P=IE, so a lower E would be less heat).

You say that you measured the stator current with the shunt.....Usually shunts are used to measure DC current, but I don't see an reason why you couldn't measure AC current with it also. Just measure the AC voltage accross the shunt and compute the AC current. However, .5 ohms of series resistance will lower the stator current a bit. I don't think that it really is .5 ohms though. R=E/I or .050/50, which equals .001 ohm (.050V=50mv.)

Try measuring the stator current again. Connect the shunt in series with one of the stator leads. Connect your digital meter across the shunt (at the smaller screws) and put the meter on the AC milivolt range. Start the bike, rev it to about 3,000 RPM and measure the AC stator current. The Yammie manual says the stator produces 26.2 amps minimum @ 3700 RPM. You will read 1 milivolt for each amp., so if you read 27mv. you have 27 amps flowing from your stator leads.

Frank D.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:52 AM
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Default FH0012AA Rectifier/Regulator Question

I replaced my OEM regulator with a FH0012AA unit from a Yamaha R1. I bought he FH0012AA used off of ebay. When I first installed it and when I start the bike in the morning the voltage at the battery is 14.3 volts. I was psyched thinking I cured the charging problems I was having. However, I decided to check the voltage when I got home after riding the bike for a while and the voltage moves around from high 12's to mid 13. My question is: DO these regulators put our a constant charging voltage or do they cycle based on how much charge is in the battery? I expected the voltage to stay fairly constant around 14.25 or so. If it's supposed to be constant then I've got a problem, however if the regulator output can vary depending on the state of charge of the battery, then maybe I'm worrying over nothing.

Fyi, I installed the FH0012AA with a wiring harness made for it that goes directly to the battery.

Any thoughts about this would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Al
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almon777 View Post
I replaced my OEM regulator with a FH0012AA unit from a Yamaha R1. I bought he FH0012AA used off of ebay. When I first installed it and when I start the bike in the morning the voltage at the battery is 14.3 volts. I was psyched thinking I cured the charging problems I was having. However, I decided to check the voltage when I got home after riding the bike for a while and the voltage moves around from high 12's to mid 13. My question is: DO these regulators put our a constant charging voltage or do they cycle based on how much charge is in the battery? I expected the voltage to stay fairly constant around 14.25 or so. If it's supposed to be constant then I've got a problem, however if the regulator output can vary depending on the state of charge of the battery, then maybe I'm worrying over nothing.

Fyi, I installed the FH0012AA with a wiring harness made for it that goes directly to the battery.

Any thoughts about this would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Al
Sounds like it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. That's why they call them regulators...or rectifyers... Put a load on the bttery and it should or could go back up to 14.2-14.3vdc
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almon777 View Post
I replaced my OEM regulator with a FH0012AA unit from a Yamaha R1. I bought he FH0012AA used off of ebay. When I first installed it and when I start the bike in the morning the voltage at the battery is 14.3 volts. I was psyched thinking I cured the charging problems I was having. However, I decided to check the voltage when I got home after riding the bike for a while and the voltage moves around from high 12's to mid 13. My question is: DO these regulators put our a constant charging voltage or do they cycle based on how much charge is in the battery? I expected the voltage to stay fairly constant around 14.25 or so. If it's supposed to be constant then I've got a problem, however if the regulator output can vary depending on the state of charge of the battery, then maybe I'm worrying over nothing.

Fyi, I installed the FH0012AA with a wiring harness made for it that goes directly to the battery.

Any thoughts about this would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Al
Yep, sounds about right. I did the upgrade stator, the Shindengen, A DEKA AGM battery and the harness dedicated only to those components also.

At normal running speeds it shows 14.3-14.4 all the time with only the headlight and tail light on. Add the driving lights and the digital voltmeter will show a drop to to 14.2. If l'm working on the bike and leave the lights on for a while it will show a drain discharge on the meter when I first fire it up and gradually built back up to the the 14.3 reading.

The more current you use for lights or accessories you will see a small drop in the meter display but it should remain constant at that level, except when bringing the battery back up to a full charge like I mentioned.

The only time I see a reading of anything lower that 13.8 is at an idle, brakes applied maybe the cooling fan kicks on.

No matter what I have loaded the system with I've never been able to get it below 13.6 at speed. I'm happy with that.

If you are seeing readings swinging from 12's to 13's with the bike running at speed RPM's I'd check your connections. If your seeing those at idle, you're fine.

Mike
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