Listen Up!

[BOO]

I got to tell you I'm not much for preventive maintenance. Sure I change the oil and plugs fairly regularly. Usually change the tires before the threads are showing but I never have changed the brake fluid or the fluid in the clutch. Just added as needed. I will also add I've been riding for probably longer then most of you folks be alive.

 

Now, recently, last Thursday to be exact my clutch failed, no fluid. The slave cylinder was leaking big time. I ordered the repair kit and all the gaskets. Both cases on the left side have to be pulled to get at that berger. Long and the short of it is the cylinder housing was so pitted I don't think I could have honed them all out. Maybe but I decided I didn't want to have to redo the job a second time.

 

To get to the part you have to take the exhaust pipes off the left side as well as the foot rest, the shift linkage and the hanger for the exhaust pipe.

 

Morale of the story is a 20 minute clutch fluid change would have saved me 3 or 4 hours of labor and $150.00 in parts.......

 

Hummm, maybe I'll change the fluid in the brakes while I'm waiting for the parts.

 

BOO

[BOO]

Of course this should have been in the Second Gen Tech talk but applies to all.

Feel free to move it.

BOO

[Wanderer]

"I will also add I've been riding for probably longer then most of you folks be alive."

 

Heck, you don't look that old to me!

[jasonm.]

the main reason it got pitted is because the fluid was not changed as described in the manual. DOT 3&4 Fluid attracts water. The water settles at the lowest point. The slave cylinder. Water pits the aluminum slave...You ask yourself. How does the water get in? SAme as in the brakes ....thru all the rubber seals and gaskets. They are not able to keep ALL gases out.

[YamaDude]

Well this is interesting, I had to add some fluid to my clutch reservoir the other day on my 06 that went into service in 07 and noticed how much clearer the new fluid was. That got me thinking I should do a fluid change but after reading this thread it's a for sure thing to happen first chance I get.

[Sleeperhawk]

"I will also add I've been riding for probably longer then most of you folks be alive."

 

Heck, you don't look that old to me!

 

Have you seen him, he is old :rotf::rotf:

[dingy]

I have what may be a dumb question, but not the first dumb one I have ever asked.

 

If the water settles into the bottom of the clutch slave cylinder, how do you get it out short of removing slave cylinder?

 

If you flush new fluid through, will it agitate water enough to mix with fluid and come out.

 

Oil floats on top of water, and the bleeding of the clutch, or brakes for that matter, would not seem to produce enough flow to bring this water out.

 

Gary

[Sleeperhawks Mechanic]

This is the best Sleeperhawk has felt all day! YEAH!!!!!

 

Only Boo's hairdresser knows for sure how old he is, so there!

 

Have you seen him, he is old :rotf::rotf:

[bkuhr]

I have what may be a dumb question, but not the first dumb one I have ever asked.

 

If the water settles into the bottom of the clutch slave cylinder, how do you get it out short of removing slave cylinder?

 

If you flush new fluid through, will it agitate water enough to mix with fluid and come out.

 

Oil floats on top of water, and the bleeding of the clutch, or brakes for that matter, would not seem to produce enough flow to bring this water out.

 

Gary

 

My Guess, as hydraulics are used they heat up and boil water out. If left unused for extended periods of time, then corrosion damage is done.

[Jerry W]

That is why most engines are made to run above 212 degrees. The water will vaproize above that temperature unless it is under pressure and that is why your cooling system is a pressurized system.

[dingy]

My Guess, as hydraulics are used they heat up and boil water out. If left unused for extended periods of time, then corrosion damage is done.

 

That is why most engines are made to run above 212 degrees. The water will vaproize above that temperature unless it is under pressure and that is why your cooling system is a pressurized system.

 

The brake and clutch systems are closed loops. Where would the the water go when it vaporizes?

 

Also, I don't know if the clutch slave would ever reach 212 deg. It is on the outside of the block in a relatively low temp area.

 

Gary

[bkuhr]

The brake and clutch systems are closed loops. Where would the the water go when it vaporizes?

 

Also, I don't know if the clutch slave would ever reach 212 deg. It is on the outside of the block in a relatively low temp area.

 

Gary

Not closed loops, brake and clutch master reservior both vent thru lid, same on cage. Every hydraulic system I can think of vents at reservior. On bike usually tiny slit at joint res cap and body. Pressure of h20 steam blows by bellows/gasket to the slit

 

Clutch would reach temp even faster, because any water in system would not compress, and would not have 'full' clutch release. 'slipping' clutch plates would generate heat even faster than brakes, traveling along clutch links back to slave.

 

Good question, hope my answers are correct

 

Brian

[warthogcrewchief]

The problem with old brake fluid (dot 3 or 4) is that it does attract water over time. It is recommended to change brake fluids in a vehicle once a year. When you bleed the old fluid out, the bad fluid and water will go with it. The problem with old fluid is that as it attracts more water, it does not have a place to go! Using the brake system for example, brake fluid does not expand when heated. HOWEVER, water does. If you have old fluid (w/ water in it), it can cause an un-commanded engagement of your brakes. Same applies for a clutch if it heats up enough.

 

You can tell brake fluid is bad/needs to be changed when it changes color (usually brown). Never re-use or use opened brake fluid. If fluid has been sitting out for a while, it will collect moisture. Always use new fluid.

 

If you are purging out old fluid and don't feel like doing a bleed on the VR (which is a lot of fun to do), be sure to leave the reservoir topped as you drain out the old fluid (by engaging brake/clutch).

 

EDIT: Forgot to add, for those driving newer bikes and have the option of using either DOT3 or DOT4, don't mix the fluids...it can cause a nasty corrosive reaction. Never use DOT5 as none of these systems are designed for DOT5.

[BOO]

Have you seen him, he is old :rotf::rotf:

 

Hey Bud what you say about me or else I won't let you sync my carbs when I see you...

 

I have what may be a dumb question, but not the first dumb one I have ever asked.

 

If the water settles into the bottom of the clutch slave cylinder, how do you get it out short of removing slave cylinder?

 

If you flush new fluid through, will it agitate water enough to mix with fluid and come out.

 

Oil floats on top of water, and the bleeding of the clutch, or brakes for that matter, would not seem to produce enough flow to bring this water out.

 

Gary

 

There's not much fluid in the system to start with but if you flush it gone it will all come out...

 

This is the best Sleeperhawk has felt all day! YEAH!!!!!

 

Only Boo's hairdresser knows for sure how old he is, so there!

 

Boy oh boy, tough family..... Don't be telling no secrets......

 

My Guess, as hydraulics are used they heat up and boil water out. If left unused for extended periods of time, then corrosion damage is done.

 

I don't think it ever gets that hot. But yeah the water causes corrosion for sure...

 

The brake and clutch systems are closed loops. Where would the the water go when it vaporizes?

 

Also, I don't know if the clutch slave would ever reach 212 deg. It is on the outside of the block in a relatively low temp area.

 

Gary

 

I don't think it leaves the system on it's own but I agree I don't think the slave would ever get that hot.

BOO

 

 

Not closed loops, brake and clutch master reservior both vent thru lid, same on cage. Every hydraulic system I can think of vents at reservior. On bike usually tiny slit at joint res cap and body. Pressure of h20 steam blows by bellows/gasket to the slit.

 

 

Clutch would reach temp even faster, because any water in system would not compress, and would not have 'full' clutch release. 'slipping' clutch plates would generate heat even faster than brakes, traveling along clutch links back to slave.

 

I think that's a stretch but I guess anythings possible.

The heat would have to travel quite a ways down the connecting rod etc to get to the

slave and that's all running in oil too.

 

Good question, hope my answers are correct

 

Brian

 

The bottom line on my problem is there was probably water in the system and it caused rust on some of the metal parts within the slave cylinder. Then the rust was rubbed off the steel and was floating around in the slave, scratching the heck out of the rubber seals causing it to leak out the bottom of the bike. Hope that makes sense.

BOO

[MiCarl]

DOT 3 and DOT 4 absorb water. The idea is to change it before it becomes saturated and the water precipitates out.

 

As the brake fluid absorbs moisture it's boiling point drops. Brake calipers can get hot enough to boil contaminated fluid. Boiling = gas bubbles = no more brakes.

 

DOT 3 and DOT 4 also darken as they absorb water. If it's honey colored it's time to replace. 2 years is the recommended maximum.

 

You're correct that some older fluid will be left in the slave cylinder. If you change the fluid frequently enough it gets diluted to where it's a non issue.

 

The system is sealed, that diaphragm in the reservoir is meant to separate the fluid from the (wet) atmosphere. Without it the fluid would be moisture laden in a hurry. The moisture gets into the system by migrating through the seals and hose walls.

Edited April 13, 2010 by MiCarl

[Yammer Dan]

The brake and clutch systems are closed loops. Where would the the water go when it vaporizes?

 

Also, I don't know if the clutch slave would ever reach 212 deg. It is on the outside of the block in a relatively low temp area.

 

Gary

 

 

Ask Skid about riding the Dragon and boiling the clutch fluid. It Can Be Done!!!

[BOO]

Well got the bike back together. Had the parts on Wednesday but had that silly deadline with the tax man.

Apparently everything is working just fine. I hope I never have to do that again. Only comment I will make other then it was a pain in the you know what is, there was a lot of black stuff in the reservoir as well as some water. Quite a bit of water on the top side of the rubber gasket.

By the way someone mentioned that the system was not a closed system but it appears to me that it is. The rubber gasket on the reservoir is sort of a bellows so it is able to collapse into the reservoir when there is a leak or when you are bleeding the system.

Maybe.

BOO