7 lakes

Yeah, hydraulic systems are balanced and if you change one component you usually need to make a corresponding change elsewhere in either mechanical or hydraulic advantage to maintain the balance. They can get touchier or wooden depending on the change.

Jeff, my comment wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular, I was referring to statements like "Linked brakes are for unskilled riders", "Linked brakes are for those who don't know how to ride a bike", etc. that I've seen here in the past. They make about as much sense to me as "Automatic chokes are for people who don't know how to warm up an engine" or "Seat belts are for people who don't know how to hang on". Just plain silly. I certainly understand the urge to modify, improve performance or tailor a bike to your particular needs, especially for a situation like yours where independent braking is definitely an advantage (pea gravel? oh crap!) but I bristle a little bit at the idea that guys who don't want to modify their brake system are somehow screwing up or missing out.

A couple more thoughts: 1: You're right. 2: The first thing a street rider learns to do with independent brakes is to brake the way a linked, proportioned system does, because that's the appropriate way to brake a vehicle in most conditions. Cars have used this system forever. Not a darn thing wrong with it. 3. These bikes weren't built or intended for anything other than asphalt or concrete roads. 4. Liking linked brakes doesn't mean you are an unskilled or incompetent rider. I drive an automatic, it doesn't mean I don't know how to shift. I like the linked brakes on the Venture. Would I like them on one of the XS1100s? Heck no, I ride those a lot differently than I ride the Venture. I act my age on the Venture. None of the above is intended to disagree with anything that's been posted, if the linked brakes work for you, cool. if you prefer the extra flexibility that independent braking gives you, and it does, that's cool too. The only thing that I disagree with is the idea that linked brakes are a stupid idea and those running them are unskilled and/or incompetent.

"Millenials aren't buying Harleys" is something I didn't see come up in the thread discussing tariffs and is the real reason behind their current issues, moving production outside of the US, they will lose some of the appeal they currently have in the foreign markets if not all the bikes are made in the US but their labor costs will be significantly reduced. Their real problem is pretty simple, they have saturated a limited, aging market. Harleys are everywhere and bada$$ orthodontists with skulls, gold eagles and HOG rockers on their brand new leathers have become a joke, at least around here. Watch a pair of 70 year old grandparents walk into a restaurant in full leather and you'll see some younger folks suppress snickers at the "old folks in biker costumes". They see it like the younger folks who dress up like anime characters at Comic con, except not cool. That is HD's real problem.

I agree. Id never heard of this "method" before reading about it here and have racked my brain trying to figure out how this would help, eventually coming to the conclusion you did, that the real benefit was that the system was just left alone for a while. Bleeding needs to be done gently, pump pressure up in the system too enthusiasticly and air bubbles break down into millions of teeny ones, and is a lot harder to get out that way. Letting it sit and letting them all become one air bubble again can help a lot, otherwise you can pump and bleed a long time. I'm convinced that is behind a lot of the problems I read about bleeding brakes. This sounds a lot like "forced patience ", which is what is required to gently milk a master cylinder when bleeding it. Pump that thing hard and fast, or too many times, and walking away for a while is about the only way you're going to get it done. In one thread I read where a guy said he had to do this regularly and I just bit my tongue.

I agree, people drive like lunatics. I've gotten spoiled after moving out into the sticks, most of my riding is country roads and I work from home so I get to take a few hours off for a ride whenever I want, but the downside is I've gotten used to that and am not comfortable in traffic anymore. I used to commute 65 miles a day round trip all year round but either I've gotten old or people have gotten crazier and I sure as heck wouldn't survive that now.

Man, I am so jealous sitting here at my desk. Enjoy, and thanks for the photos! Tim

Looks great! I've had silver gray like that when clearing too, can be frustrating.

Welcome, and thanks for the sourcing!

I woulda brought that back to life too, nice to see one saved.

After you select a trailer, I suggest strapping the front end down from the fork brace instead of from the handlebars, upper tree or the frame. It's a much more solid mount, avoids working the front suspension in a position it isn't normally in for extended periods of time, and is much less prone to loosening up on a trip.

You guys are right, those things definitely can happen, allow me to revise my previous statement - "A properly operating modern hydraulic system, with good fluid, in the service that it was designed for, with the pedal freeplay adjusted properly, without old fluid exposed to excessive heat, without dragging the brake on a mountain pass, and without overfilling the master cylinder reservoir which overcomes the passive master cylinder compensation circuit, is never going to generate enough heat to seize a caliper. Did I miss anything? The point I was trying to make is that you rarely have to worry about all this crap if the inside of the system is properly maintained, not that it can't ever happen. And yeah, I get that clutch fluid can overheat too. The way that sentence was worded kinda threw me but re-reading it I see what you meant and you're right of course.

Brakecrafters' Red Rubber grease is for caliper assembly, its compatible with brake fluid. Almost all manufacturers use thread locker and recommend that caliper bolts be replaced when the caliper is removed, because the thread locker they use is gauged to hold enough but not too much. I usually reuse the bolts but clean them and apply a small amount of blue Locktite. They come off pretty easy later.

A properly operating modern brake system, with good fluid, in the service that it was designed for, is never going to generate enough heat to seize a caliper. It just isn't going to happen unless there is already a real problem with the system. Can a caliper seize from boiling fluid? Sure, if there is a significant problem that caused that heat, but again the problem is that the system needs service, not that somehow the fluid just boiled out of nowhere on its own. Could you make it happen by riding the brake down a mountain pass? Yes, but most likely you'd notice pad fade, or other drivers waving and pointing to the smoke rolling off your rear end, and pull over first. And yes, of course it would be possible for the caliper to be hotter than the lever, I should have given a more precise example and you're correct for calling me on that. I'm sure you didn't really mean to say that braking heat was also generated by the clutch slave cylinder, but I'm confused about your reference to it. I don't how a clutch slave could get hot enough to seize unless the fluid was really, really bad. It is possible for heat below the boiling point (we're talking good fluid here) to constrict caliper movement, but it's the result of reduced clearance from "crud" (actually corrosion and powdered rubber) which doesn't allow for normal heat expansion of the caliper body and the piston. I've worked on systems that came into the shop with a complaint of dragging brakes and wheels very hot to the touch that were suffering from this. The problem was always a lack of hydraulics service, except for a couple of times I saw calipers frozen to their mount from the car being used on salted roads and then being parked for months, all the clearances had been taken up by corrosion of the mount and caliper and when things got hot the assembly couldn't compensate, it was just too tight. And you're correct about changing the fluid every 2 years, the reason for that recommendation is that it is impossible to prevent brake fluid, which is hydroscopic at a molecular level, from absorbing moisture from the air and the more moisture, the lower the boiling point. Brake fluid will absorb moisture through the pores of rubber brake lines and the seams in the system, its that hydroscopic. I know that sounds crazy but its true. It wants moisture, it needs moisture, it will get moisture. This is the reason for the 2 year change recommendation, that's how long it's estimated to take for a sealed system that hasn't been opened to absorb enough moisture from the atmosphere to compromise the fluid. Leave the system open for 15 minutes so you can pour in fluid while bleeding the system and you've taken 25% off the life of your fluid. 30 minutes, 50%. Less of course if you're in a high humidity area. Take the top off your master and leave it overnight, you've just ruined your fluid. Really. It will still work the brakes, but its corrosion preventative abilities and thus its heat resistance are gone. Here's a chart I stole from someone on the net, notice that the title is "The Impact of Water Content ..." - I was trying to make the point that everyone seems to want to imagine some exotic reason for brake issues, when it really does just come down to clean holes and rubber. (Same deal with carbs) Most of the brake discussions I see in bike forums are like someone asking why they're having trouble pounding nails with a hammer whose handle is coated with axle grease, and they'll get all kinds of advice on the best kind of grease to use on your hammer, how to duct tape the hammer to your hand, the right gloves to use with a greased hammer, or which new bigger hammer should be purchased, and for sure there'll be a guy or two who suggests that the old hammer just be cleaned really well, but that advice will be discounted because that's just too easy. Why doesn't anyone want to service their brakes? Really, 99% of brake issues are just the internals needing service. It's all about clean holes, good rubber and smooth surfaces. It really is just that simple, and without those, there really isn't any point in doing anything else.

Dealing with heat is one of things brake fluid is designed to do and one of the reasons it's expensive. If the system were hot enough to expand your fluid enough for you to even notice, you wouldn't be able to touch the brake lever without burning yourself. If the fluid expands at all at less than very extreme temps then there is water and/or air in the system and they are the source of the expansion. And yes, if the system is dirty enough inside to clog the master cylinder compensation port, or to prevent proper fluid flow in any small passage, that could hold pressure in the system but the fix is the same, servicing the internals. Also, if an issue with the brakes is solved by opening a bleeder, that is your system screaming at you not to drive the vehicle until the hydraulic internals are serviced. Not trying to be argumentative, I did this professionally and am just trying to help. Brake systems really aren't complicated or difficult. Just like carbs, it's just pieces of metal with holes drilled in them and some springs and rubber parts. No mystery, no magic, no hidden high tech or engineering. Holes and rubber. If the holes are clean and the rubber is good then its gonna work. If it doesn't work right, either the holes aren't clean or the rubber isn't good. So the fix is clean all the holes, replace all the rubber and the system is functionally new again. Trust me, that really is all there is to it. If you get new rubber for your master and calipers, make sure the inside of the system is really clean and free of corrosion, (don't hone anything, not a good idea) and fill it with new fluid, you can forget about your brakes for years. Otherwise they're going to be on your mind for a while.

I can't be excess fluid, it can't be the return hole, it can't be air. It's the caliper. The caliper needs servicing. Service the caliper. It's The Caliper.

Every single negative condition mentioned in this thread could likely be solved with a simple caliper rebuild. The caliper piston seal is not just an oil seal, it's the highest functioning mechanical part in the caliper, and is literally the thing that makes disc brakes work. Nothing will work right if it needs service. If the piston was really hard to push in, its certainly not going to work correctly. And any used caliper needs to be rebuilt before it's put into service, unless it was just rebuilt. I don't mean to , but it's just a fact. I see guys in the forums all the time going down rabbit holes with brakes when all they need to do is buy new some rubber and brake fluid. Servicing the internals isn't at all difficult, takes way less time than bolting on other stuff, which of course needs to be rebuilt too, and if it needs to be done there isn't any point in doing anything else.

It sounds like the system wasn't treated well by the previous owner, meaning it needs complete service. There are lots of options and opinions on setups, caliper replacements, etc., but here's what I would tell you if you brought it into my shop: "I'll need to rebuild the rear caliper and the rear master cylinder, replace any rubber hoses with stainless steel, and run piping directly from the master to the caliper, eliminating the proportioning valve by completely removing it. Otherwise I won't touch it. And my lawyer needs you to sign this 'cause this isn't a stock system. " So take the above as the end goal, subtract anything you've already rebuilt and that's your fastest track to the best braking you can get with the master and caliper you have. If you want to improve with a larger caliper you can do that after and know that you're building on a solid foundation instead of shooting in the dark. Hope this is helpful.

I think the anti-dives, like the concept of a linked system, took the blame for the impact of so much rubber hose and the calipers being undersized. With ideal hydraulic sizing/pressure transmission/function, the anti-dives shouldnt have been noticeable. But add them to a marginally sized, over-hosed (there's a word ya don't use much) system, with even more hose, and uggh. Kinda like trying a new food after you're already full and blaming it for your heartburn. If the stock system had run one rubber hose (of higher quality) to the fork brace, steel from there to the calipers and steel from the calipers to the anti-dives, and only the shortest hose possible to allow suspension travel in the rear, the stock system would have been much better. Still marginal, but better. I actually toyed with the idea of doing this on mine just to see how much improvement there was but probably won't. I have enough to do. And good on ya for servicing your fluid, great way to prolong the life of the internals.

You're gonna rebuild the masters, right? If they haven't been serviced recently and you drain the system, do a bunch of pumping and bleeding and flush everything out, you will probably be setting yourself up for some tail chasing trying to figure out why the new calipers aren't working right. And it will be because the rest of the system wasn't serviced. And of course the new calipers will be rebuilt before they go on? And hoses? The single biggest, best bang for the buck bolt on brake upgrade available is stainless hoses.

The diameter of the master cylinder bore needs to increase proportionately to the caliper bore in order to maintain the same hydraulic advantage, in other words if the caliper bore is increased by 20% the master bore size needs to be increased by 20% or you lose braking power. As far as the best master for your calipers I'll defer you to those here that have made the swap, I have the stock calipers on mine and plan to leave them. I'm curious about why you have to stand on your rear brake, what is your rear setup now, is there just one caliper on the rear master? Stock caliper? Did you remove the proportioning valve? What kind of hose to the rear? How old are the pads and how long since the internals were serviced?

I have a folder labeled "original images" and folders inside that labeled by the month and year, or event if applicable. I always leave originals untouched there as digital negatives and make copies to process for posting or printing. The copies go in folders corresponding to the subject, like family images, outdoor images, bike, etc., or by event.

Welcome. The proportioning valve is calibrated and balanced for the stock piston sizes, if you change the piston size equally front and rear the proportioning valve will still function correctly, if you change them unequally it won't. The master cylinder bores are also sized for the caliper pistons, so larger pistons reduce the mechanical advantage of the masters. Small increases may not be that noticeable but larger ones will require more effort at the lever and negatively impact modulation and feel. The proportioning valve and the caliper piston size aren't intended to prevent the front wheel from locking so much as they are to apply the correct proportion of front /rear braking without the skill level required to correctly modulate independent front and rear brakes, especially in a panic stop where over-braking the front and losing control or locking the rear and sliding out are pretty easy to do for most riders. Its the same system cars have used forever. Yamaha stated in the manual that the "exclusive benefit" (their words) to this system is that it requires "no skill" to operate, just like stepping on the brake pedal in a car. Personally I think the linked system has gotten a bad rap because of A) the amount of rubber hose in the stock system, B) the hydraulic anti-dives, C) slightly undersized calipers and D) hardly anyone maintains their hydraulics. I actually like the linked brakes but think that the combination of the above meant that the stock bike was under-braked for a two-up loaded touring bike. I think most folks here prefer to un-link the brakes. Tim

Used to regularly see that kind of stuff with car tires when I was in the business, a lot of substandard tires get mounted if the shop isn't picky and doesn't inspect them carefully. We sent tires back to the warehouse for return to the manufacturer often enough that we had a bin for them in the basement.