Flyinfool Posted December 27, 2012 Share #1 Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) I am having a new roof put on. They started today. Now that they have half of the roof off It is totally apparent that the builder of the house back in 1890 was a pinhead. The roof deck boards just end where they end, the next board butted up and on they went. The joints between boards are not centered on the rafters. When they got to the end of the roof they took whatever the cutoff was and butted it up against the next board. Even if the cut off was not long enough to reach 2 rafters, there are many spots where both ends of a board are floating and it is just nailed to ONE rafter in the middle of the board, it tips when pressure is applied to either end.:doh: Of course as to be expected the bottom 2 boards are rotten. But I had expected that with a 120 yo house that had 3 layers of roof on it. The contractor gave me 3 choices. 1. Tear off all the wood and redeck. $5,000 2. Cover the whole roof with 1/4 OSB to give a flat solid nailing surface. $2,500 3. Repair all of the loose ends with new boards at $5.00 per foot installed. Estimate of 100-300 feet. How many total repairs will be needed will not be known till the other half of the roof is torn off. $500 - $1,500. The budget is tight on this job so I went with option 3. I hope I did the right thing, or at least not to bad of a thing. Edited December 27, 2012 by Flyinfool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV1100SE Posted December 27, 2012 Share #2 Posted December 27, 2012 I'd go in the order you posted. #1 would be ideal, #2 a compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted December 27, 2012 Share #3 Posted December 27, 2012 Sounds like the budget was tight for the original builder too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playboy Posted December 27, 2012 Share #4 Posted December 27, 2012 Well at least the contractor came and told you instead of covering it up again. Option 3 sounds like the thing to do. Option 2 to much added weight and option 1 well just I hate home repairs they never go as planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted December 27, 2012 First side wood is done. Looks like around 75' used. First row of shingles are up. They have about an hour and a half till dark. With the snow tomorrow and holidays coming they will not be back to start the second side till Wednesday next week, weather permitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 27, 2012 Share #6 Posted December 27, 2012 With the snow tomorrow and holidays coming they will not be back to start the second side till Wednesday next week, weather permitting. Jeff, I am wondering why you chose to have the roof done, in the Winter? (hey now, it is just a question) I would have gone with option # 2, but would have requested they use 1/2 inch exterior plywood, rather than OSB. I have a serious dislike of OSB, and refuse to let any contractor use it on my buildings. What kind of shingles are they laying down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin-vic-b.c. Posted December 27, 2012 Share #7 Posted December 27, 2012 That kind of construction was not uncommon back then, the "best" way to go would be 3/8 (or thicker) plwood over the existing..... fixing the loose ends will be futile...in my opinion. I do not know what the weather norm is in your area but OSB is prone to mold. taking it all off is not necessary either, that just leaves you with extra labor and a dumping bill for the lumber unless you burn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 27, 2012 Share #8 Posted December 27, 2012 Jeff, I am really into old houses. When I lived in Vermont, our house was an old pre- victorian, built in 1858. The town was so small...(how small was it)...that the homes had the date they were built on the front of the homes, rather than a street address. The postman knew where everyone lived, so you always got your mail. If you get a chance, would you PM me a picture of the outside of your house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJoe Posted December 27, 2012 Share #9 Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) 1/4 inch osb board???? may as well have wallpapered it.... tear off and redeck?? ony if it was 3/4 " exterior grade, tounge and groove. Of course That would give you the strength you already have... I bought a 1850 farm house and 15 acres for a place to retire to. To say it was a real fixer upper would be an extreeme understatement. Back then the roof were built solid using 8" wide 3/4" thick pine lumber, on top of a true 2" x 8" oak roof joists. There must have been 15 leaks in the house ... I had to completely gut it... Can you guess why? Guess we had the same jackwagon ... Maybe he traveled west up to your place. wherever the wood ended it ended... so...naturally when someone walked on a unsupported plank it broke both the shingles and the edit thick felt so i got up on the roof, took the shingles off and chopped the pine plank down the center of the joist and screwed new planks down... also removed the areas where there were huge knots that broke out... Now who'd have guessed that a 5"knot on the edge of a plank would give out? that's the way i went... i figured 98% of the roof is good to go... why tear off something that is good.... when i went after the shingles and the rolled roofing the guy at lowes said i didn't have to use edit thick felt anymore?????????? I said "might not have to but i will".... are they using edit thick felt roofing on yours??????????? I to am a little curious as to why your having your roof done in december? Edited December 28, 2012 by CaptainJoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share #10 Posted December 27, 2012 Well they beat the sun and got the whole roof done on the first side. The crew chief said that there was 2 layers of shingles and 2 layers of roll roof under that. As for why the roof is getting done now. It was the roofs decision, not mine. The last storm peeled some shingles and created an unauthorized waterfall thru the ceiling plaster. The shingles are Owens Corning Oakridge. The number of spots that needed repair is not that bad on this first side, I expect the other side to be worse just because the roof looks to be in worse shape on that side. I'll have to try to get a pic of the house. It aint nuttin fancy just a little old house. But you will have to PM me your email cuz we can not do attachments to a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazmocycle Posted December 28, 2012 Share #11 Posted December 28, 2012 my house was built in 1920 and i had a simlar problem, they had just laided pieces of metal over some big gaps. they used ruff-cut lumber, so some was thicker tham others. i just filled the holes in with short boards and put 3/8 plywood over the old roof using an air nailer with shanks on them to hold it down better. i also had to fill in 3 chimmey holes where i took them out as they were falling down. i would go with putting down the osb over the old roof deck as it'll make a better platform for the roof. i did almost all my roof by my self and laced the valleys as i think thats best, except some on the back when i had my wreck and broke my arm and leg. i hired some guys to finished it and they overlaped the valley the wrong way and when the first big rain came it poured thru the roof in the valley. i hired them off the street to do it, as they had worked for a friend of mine, so i could make them come back and fix it. i've been doing rooring since i helped my dad when i was 7 yrs old. i aslo don't like airnailer to put the shingles on unless they are carefull and not turn the air up too high and bust thru them, especility if it's cold. i have seen whole sections of roofing pill off in a high wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dacheedah Posted December 28, 2012 Share #12 Posted December 28, 2012 Not that uncommon and the boards are probably spaced and they used wood shingles on them. I would tear down to the 3/4 " boards, then add 7/16" osb nailed with 16s on the rafters. Water and ice shield on the perimeter, 30# felt on the osb cap stapled. Do you know the pitch?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted December 28, 2012 Share #13 Posted December 28, 2012 I'm curious why your header says you hate contractors. Maybe you are commenting about the original builders? The crew you have working on it now seems to be OK. Apparently they did hustle to get one side completed, and you seem to be pleased with what's been accomplished so far. Just wonderin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJoe Posted December 28, 2012 Share #14 Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) The 3/4 board, even with thin gaps isn't the problem. It's the airguns (not being able to tell if you hit wood) If it's hand nailed you just pull the nail, seal, and try again. My worry with having it done in the winter is ... are the shingles going to get warm enough to stick together? If they don't a strong wind is going to cause problems. Although you didn't really have a choice anyway. Hope it works out for you. Here's a good read on osb vs. plywood http://www.builderonline.com/products/product-pros-and-cons-oriented-strand-board-vs-plywood_1.aspx As YammerDan is so fond of saying: "I'm going back to my corner now" Edited December 28, 2012 by CaptainJoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dacheedah Posted December 28, 2012 Share #15 Posted December 28, 2012 once the roof is on, in good sunlight, stick a torpedo heater in the attic and run a tank through it, that will seal the shingles. Thats just roofing in the north. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share #16 Posted December 28, 2012 I'll try to answer some questions. The title is partly because I still had sticker shock and contractors always seem to come in over budget. I'm not saying the the work is sub par or was unnecessary just more expensive than budgeted for. The roof has a 12 / 12 pitch the dormers have a 3 / 12 pitch. The boards on the roof are not spaced for wood shingles, they are tight. I was also concerned about sealing in the winter, The contractor assured me IN WRITING that the shingles will not blow off before it gets warm enough for them to seal. He does roof in the winter all the time on new construction and has never had a problem. This is one of the higher rated contractors in the area, NOT the cheapest quote. I am assuming that they know enough to turn down the pressure in their air nailers. On many of the nails they pull out their hammer to finish setting them. I went with the option of replacing boards as needed. putting OSB or ply over perfectly good wood is just overkill, boards have held up fine for over 100 years, I am not convinced that ply or OSB will ever live that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 28, 2012 Share #17 Posted December 28, 2012 Here's a good read on osb vs. plywood http://www.builderonline.com/products/product-pros-and-cons-oriented-strand-board-vs-plywood_1.aspx Joe, I rear the entire attached article, and it confirms why I will only use plywood, and never use OSB. I do a lot of outdoor projects, building large chicken coops, building feed barns, building machine sheds, etc, and I will only use exterior grade, pressure treated plywood. But then again, I live in the Great Pacific Northwest, and we do have moisture in the air up here. There will never be a drought problem where I live. After retiring from a government job of 26 years, I spent the next 5 years doing structural inspections on commercial and private buildings. I have seen a lot of problems with OSB. I would rather pay the extra money up front, and have it done right, than to have to pay money a second time because the product failed 5 to 10 years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJoe Posted December 28, 2012 Share #18 Posted December 28, 2012 Joe, I rear the entire attached article, and it confirms why I will only use plywood, and never use OSB. I do a lot of outdoor projects, building large chicken coops, building feed barns, building machine sheds, etc, and I will only use exterior grade, pressure treated plywood. But then again, I live in the Great Pacific Northwest, and we do have moisture in the air up here. There will never be a drought problem where I live. After retiring from a government job of 26 years, I spent the next 5 years doing structural inspections on commercial and private buildings. I have seen a lot of problems with OSB. I would rather pay the extra money up front, and have it done right, than to have to pay money a second time because the product failed 5 to 10 years down the road. Your preaching to the choir my friend... put in a chicken coop roof a few years back. Used 1/2 osb over 2 x 6 x 10's that were 16" apart. the osb was so flexabe that I did not feel comfortable standing on it unless i was directly over a 2 x 6. (hence my suggestion of 3/4 tongue and groove exterior plywood) cons of using plywood: cost, possible void, limited lengths Guess I can live with that... Like to watch Holmes on Homes... GREAT SHOW! And now you can get a coating on the plywood that will make it 40% more water repelent... that, i did not know . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJoe Posted December 28, 2012 Share #19 Posted December 28, 2012 id be more concerned with them being able to tell they didn't hit wood... you can tell it with the first wack of a hammer... with a air nailer, is the head of the nail nail flush, or, does it bounce up a little? When done by hand, I simply pull nail out and install 1/2" above hole and reseal old one. the boards on my roof are also tightly butted together largest gap perhaps 1/8 inch due to contraction of board. I'd go up in the attic and see how many nails you have in the gaps between boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 28, 2012 Share #20 Posted December 28, 2012 Your preaching to the choir my friend... . CaptainJoe, maybe we can start a forum quartet. Sort of like a barbershop quartet, but we have to ride motorcycles, and like plywood. And...we can all use the icon:backinmyday: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 28, 2012 Share #21 Posted December 28, 2012 id be more concerned with them being able to tell they didn't hit wood... you can tell it with the first wack of a hammer... with a air nailer, is the head of the nail nail flush, or, does it bounce up a little? I'd go up in the attic and see how many nails you have in the gaps between boards. Man, I agree with that 100%. That is a real pet peeve of mine, nails not being driven into the supporting wood. I do the same thing...go looking for nails that have not been driven into the joists. That pis&es me off. Call us two old fuddy-duddies, but a job is either done right, or it is done wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJoe Posted December 28, 2012 Share #22 Posted December 28, 2012 CaptainJoe, maybe we can start a forum quartet. Sort of like a barbershop quartet, but we have to ride motorcycles, and like plywood. And...we can all use the icon:backinmyday: LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJoe Posted December 28, 2012 Share #23 Posted December 28, 2012 What do ya think about leaving the nail in the shingle, as long as you put a good one within an inch of the old one... kinda like fixing "nail pops" in drywall (just put a screw next to the one thats causing the problem) I'm just concerned it will work it's way up(from being walked on) and causing problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted December 28, 2012 Share #24 Posted December 28, 2012 Man, I agree with that 100%. That is a real pet peeve of mine, nails not being driven into the supporting wood. I do the same thing...go looking for nails that have not been driven into the joists. That pis&es me off. Call us two old fuddy-duddies, but a job is either done right, or it is done wrong.Waaay back when I was doing home improvement contracting with a friend, one of our mottos was "We do it right, or we don't do it, right???" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted December 28, 2012 Share #25 Posted December 28, 2012 my concern is that 1/4 OSB is pretty thin stuff and not very strong. If you stood on top of one of those "loose end" boards you could go right thru. I would have demanded he use a thicker product. What would be the extra cost...maybe 3-4 dollars a sheet? Not much over the life of the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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