Evan Posted April 15, 2012 Share #51 Posted April 15, 2012 Is it really a matter of personal choice? Or is it society's choice? When does an issue become the "people's choice"? --------- Sooo... Helmet laws...let those who ride decide? or the insurance companies decide? or the doctors decide? or the helmet manufacturers decide? OR let the people decide? Stand your ground law...let those who feel threatened decide? or the gun manufacturers decide, or the undertakers decide? or the midnight sidewalk hikers decide? OR let the people decide? War on drugs...let those who like to get stoned decide? or the health professionals decide? or the prison guard unions decide? OR let the people decide? Pretty good logic Dave - and even a bit poetic. Wish the political process did a better job in earning the people's respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Klop Posted April 15, 2012 Share #52 Posted April 15, 2012 I live in da UP and will continue wearing mine--have hit the ground before and it's not pleasant--beside there are too many nuts allowed to drive cars up here that have no idea there are bikes on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanman Posted April 15, 2012 Share #53 Posted April 15, 2012 Makes me think about the cruel irony of an article I saw some time ago. I don't remember all the details, but there was a guy that was protesting helmet laws (again don't remember the state) in his state. He was with out one when he hit a parking lot bumper with his scoot. He fell over and hit his head on the pavement. He was pronounced dead at the scene... Kinda puts the icing on protesting helmet laws, doesn't it. Some of these laws are made to try to protect the idiots from themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Bob Posted April 15, 2012 Share #54 Posted April 15, 2012 It's a matter of personal choice..... Shari and I DO NOT ridicule anyone who chooses to wear a helmet,so don't bash us for choosing not to wear a lid.... Well said Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddlebum Posted April 15, 2012 Share #55 Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120413/POLITICS02/204130397#ixzz1s1m7I9W3 people driving convertibles arent required to wear a helmet...why should we?? 1- convertables are on 4 wheels 2- convertables are less likely to be run off the road 3- convertables are less likely to flip over or wipe out in an average emergancy situation. 4- convertables are less likely to loose control on compromising road surfaces I think that a lot of members are missing the point. This has nothing to do with whether or not you should wear a helmet. It has everything to do with whether or not you have the choice to wear the helmet. The helmet law wasn't established because your local government cares about whether or not you crash and die. The helmet law was created because your insurance company was afraid that you would crash and die or worse yet, crash and require long term medical treatment. So when I read the headline about repealing the law, I wondered how Michigan got that past the insurance companies. Read the article and it becomes clear. The additional insurance coverage was the buy off. I wonder how the authorities will confirm that a helmet-less rider has the additional insurance. Be clear of one thing. Insurance company's don't pay, WE DO. They simply transfer cash from our pocket to someone else's and take a big handling fee for doing so. In between transfers they use and invest the money for thier own gain. It has everything to do with whether or not you have the choice to wear the helmet. Who gets to choose wether or not to care for this same person for the rest of thier life when thier freedom of choice, backfires and puts them in the hospital or in a critical condition for the rest of their life. My wifes cousin excercized his right to ride without a helmet. He ended up being a vegetable in a wheel chair and now his familly is struggling with the time and cost to care for him. It was not their freedom of choice, it was his. But they no have NO choice but to look after him for the rest of thier lives. Edited April 15, 2012 by saddlebum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Mama Posted April 15, 2012 Share #56 Posted April 15, 2012 I believe it should be a personal decision. However, the nurses in the ER call people who do not wear helmets, "DONORS". They must know something. Yama Mama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Owl Posted April 15, 2012 Share #57 Posted April 15, 2012 Yes, I am still watching. And It's really nice to see that we can have a friendly discussion on a controversial topic without anyone pushing the envelope off the table.... Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBJ Posted April 15, 2012 Share #58 Posted April 15, 2012 We've been here before. I never understood why you'd want to pay insurance companies a lot more money for the privilage to ride with out a helmet AND endanger your life and effect your families well being. I mean lets face it , you cream your brains in your skull then you you get to sit in a wheel chair all day while the wife gets to go back to work and raise the kids. And it won't have even been your fault when that 80 year old woman turns left in front of you and t-bone her Mercury Marquis. Choice is a wonderful thing! I chose to wear a helmet because it protect my brain AND I chose to NOT to pay the insurance companies anymore money than I have to. Like I said Choice is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted April 15, 2012 Share #59 Posted April 15, 2012 Might be too late to protect my brain but I like my pretty face!!! I'll keep my Flip Face Lid!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevilmedic Posted April 15, 2012 Share #60 Posted April 15, 2012 but where will it end?...i understand people are seriously injured or even killed not wearing a helmet...but, are the States gonna make sure i wear a condom everytime i have sex? isnt that about the welfare of the people too? or, how about if EVERYONE has to have a breathalyzer installed in their cars before it will start? isnt that about the welfare of the people too? or, how about a game warden standing next to me in a blind EVERYTIME i go huntin?, or that i wear safety glasses evertime i use a drill? or,....my stupidity is MY choice. i have insurance and life insurance, so not to burden anyone....oh, how about WAR? is that a choice the PEOPLE make?.....What about that bit of stupidity that cost AMERICANS their lives and burdens society.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swifty Posted April 15, 2012 Share #61 Posted April 15, 2012 but where will it end?...i understand people are seriously injured or even killed not wearing a helmet...but, are the States gonna make sure i wear a condom everytime i have sex? isnt that about the welfare of the people too? or, how about if EVERYONE has to have a breathalyzer installed in their cars before it will start? isnt that about the welfare of the people too? or, how about a game warden standing next to me in a blind EVERYTIME i go huntin?, or that i wear safety glasses evertime i use a drill? or,....my stupidity is MY choice. i have insurance and life insurance, so not to burden anyone....oh, how about WAR? is that a choice the PEOPLE make?.....What about that bit of stupidity that cost AMERICANS their lives and burdens society.... Yes, I am still watching. And It's really nice to see that we can have a friendly discussion on a controversial topic without anyone pushing the envelope off the table.... Thanks everyone. or is it only BECAUSE you are watching, Russ? ...again, a poignant illustration of the topic of the thread...ie) is stupid behaviour correlated to big brother's laws and whether big brother is watching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevilmedic Posted April 15, 2012 Share #62 Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) or is it only BECAUSE you are watching, Russ? ...again, a poignant illustration of the topic of the thread...ie) is stupid behaviour correlated to big brother's laws and whether big brother is watching? "poignant" has several meanings. clarify which you mean please. what i mean is related to the 14th Amendment, as it has been argued by riders in many states. let the riders choose. how about this, send ballots to all registered voters with valid endorsements. let the riders vote...see who wins, and who doesnt. i also feel that you calling my behavior stupid, because i live in a state without helmet laws, is offensive. there may be others here that ride without a helmet, that feel that their behavior also, is not stupid. just noticed you were in Canada...no choice there. Edited April 15, 2012 by reddevilmedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted April 15, 2012 Share #63 Posted April 15, 2012 but where will it end?...i understand people are seriously injured or even killed not wearing a helmet...but, are the States gonna make sure i wear a condom everytime i have sex? isnt that about the welfare of the people too? or, how about if EVERYONE has to have a breathalyzer installed in their cars before it will start? isnt that about the welfare of the people too? or, how about a game warden standing next to me in a blind EVERYTIME i go huntin?, or that i wear safety glasses evertime i use a drill? or,....my stupidity is MY choice. i have insurance and life insurance, so not to burden anyone....oh, how about WAR? is that a choice the PEOPLE make?.....What about that bit of stupidity that cost AMERICANS their lives and burdens society.... Well said........... Dont let that Dave guy get in your head . He sold his bike and now wears his helmet while he is boating. Oh boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBear Posted April 15, 2012 Share #64 Posted April 15, 2012 I understand the whole "choice" thing, but, why oh why is it required for everyone in a car ti wear a seatbelt (and they're inside a steel cage with airbags) and yet it's offensive to some folks to wear a helmet? I'm sorry, I just don't get it. I spent a number of years working as a firefighter, and I've responded to my share of motorcycle accidents. I've seen punkins busted in very low speed (going around a corner in town) accidents, and I saw a young woman in cutoffs on the back of a Sportster when it was dropped in gravel and the exhaust pipe laid on her leg---NOT pretty. Folks can do what they want, however I will promise you that my wife and I WILL have full gear (pants, jackets, gloves, boots and full face helmets) on whenever we ride. I love bikes as much as anyone, but I do respect 'em and the amount of damage that you can suffer even in a low speed get off. (If you question the need for protective gear, run down a gravel road as fast as you can wearing what you wear when you ride. Trip yourself and fall, and if you have Zero gravel rash then you're wearing the right gear, otherwise..... Ride Safe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Owl Posted April 15, 2012 Share #65 Posted April 15, 2012 or is it only BECAUSE you are watching, Russ? ...again, a poignant illustration of the topic of the thread...ie) is stupid behaviour correlated to big brother's laws and whether big brother is watching? I could probably answer your question if I knew what "poignant" meant. Had a girlfriend from New Jersey once who thought she was poignant, but she was mistaken.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted April 15, 2012 Share #66 Posted April 15, 2012 poign·ant [poin-yuhnt, poi-nuhnt] Show IPA adjective 1. keenly distressing to the feelings: poignant regret. 2. keen or strong in mental appeal: a subject of poignant interest. 3. affecting or moving the emotions: a poignant scene. 4. pungent to the smell: poignant cooking odors.:rotf::rotf::rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playboy Posted April 15, 2012 Share #67 Posted April 15, 2012 Well I'm not going to bash anyone for Wearing a Helmet or Not nor for the clothing they wear while riding. My choices are for me and I'm not going to try and preach to anyone in this forum that my choices should be the status quote anymore than I want big brother deciding what is best for me or you. Go back and read this entire thread and maybe you can see how we got here. When we are doing it to each other and yes I know it's just a friendly debate. But take this thread and apply it to the big picture see any similarity. Freedom is a privilege and with privilege comes responsibility. We all have to take responsibility for our choices by trying to prevent our choices from infringing on our loved ones and others freedoms. So whether I wear a Helmet or not ( you'll have to ride with me to find out ) I have tried to get my affairs in order by having a Will and Living Will and enough insurance to cover my debts so as not to be a burden on my family. Because :sign **** happens: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevilmedic Posted April 15, 2012 Share #68 Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) oldbear: that is the point....choice. i also should be able to choose to wear a seat belt. if school kids on a bus dont have to wear them, why should i? just showing how ridiculous, and intrusive some of these rules are. good for the goose.....so to speak. im a clean and sober rider, i always wear jeans and boots, and wear my lid in traffic or inclement conditions. but its the option to choose.....thats what should be protected. im sure you have seen your fair share of nasty bike accidents. but, im sure you saw the DUIs, the suicides, the arsons, the gangbanger drivebys and every other thing. in the big scope of things, i feel the lid law is the least of our problems. it should be left up to the responsible rider. old cars dont even have seat belts, some only lap belts...should we outlaw those, or force all the owners to install seat belt and airbag systems, just in case they get in an accident? it just gets sillier and sillier....im very happy that Michigan gave the choice back to riders! see you on the road (with or without your lids). Edited April 15, 2012 by reddevilmedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistler Posted April 15, 2012 Share #69 Posted April 15, 2012 I my self have been riding and wearing a helmet since 1973 and I,ll still wear it I like haveing my head protected Ron:cool10: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swifty Posted April 15, 2012 Share #70 Posted April 15, 2012 "poignant" has several meanings. clarify which you mean please. what i mean is related to the 14th Amendment, as it has been argued by riders in many states. let the riders choose. how about this, send ballots to all registered voters with valid endorsements. let the riders vote...see who wins, and who doesnt. i also feel that you calling my behavior stupid, because i live in a state without helmet laws, is offensive. there may be others here that ride without a helmet, that feel that their behavior also, is not stupid. just noticed you were in Canada...no choice there. I'm just saying...where is the due process IF corporate America can influence laws? where is the due process IF we only send out ballots to the riders? That'd be like asking kids to answer ballots on whether they want a law requiring them to attend school! OR it'd be like asking drunks if they want liquor control laws, or asking drivers like me if they want speed limits! AND I was NOT calling ANYone stupid! I was calling the PROCESS stupid...the process the way I see it. (read my post). CANADA...no choice? I beg to differ. If big business is not as involved in the political process here as much as corporate America is involved in the political process there, then I'd argue, YES, we have MUCH MORE OF A CHOICE HERE, and we've made the choice; we (the courts and the legislators) will most usually choose laws which ensure the protection of society in general OVER the rights of the individual. You may think that is is not freedom but the FREEDOM COMES IN THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS, NOT IN THE RESULT OF THE DECISION....hello. Well said........... Dont let that Dave guy get in your head . He sold his bike and now wears his helmet while he is boating. Oh boy. bike isn't sold! Do you want one to add to the museum you got there, Eddie? I could probably answer your question if I knew what "poignant" meant. Had a girlfriend from New Jersey once who thought she was poignant, but she was mistaken.... ha ha ha...I mean... uhhh... that you had a girlfriend once.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flb_78 Posted April 16, 2012 Share #71 Posted April 16, 2012 We choose laws which ensure the protection of society in general OVER the rights of the individual. You may think that is is not freedom but the FREEDOM COMES IN THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS, NOT IN THE RESULT OF THE DECISION....hello. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I wear mine. It's my choice. Kentucky does not require it. Im free to wear or not wear one. I hope this thread doesn't become any more political. It's refreshing to see civil commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie1965 Posted April 16, 2012 Share #72 Posted April 16, 2012 Civil commentary is good. I'm proud to say I'm in a state that gives the rider the choice, and I choose to wear. What bothers me is seeing some out there make extremely bad choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevilmedic Posted April 16, 2012 Share #73 Posted April 16, 2012 really, the only thing that matters is MICHIGAN KICKING OHIO STATE butt. thats all im sayin...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted April 16, 2012 Share #74 Posted April 16, 2012 Hows this for political : If Obama wins again Im not wearing a helmet for sure.... See how long this can stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddlebum Posted April 16, 2012 Share #75 Posted April 16, 2012 but where will it end?...i understand people are seriously injured or even killed not wearing a helmet...but, are the States gonna make sure i wear a condom everytime i have sex? isnt that about the welfare of the people too? or, how about if EVERYONE has to have a breathalyzer installed in their cars before it will start? isnt that about the welfare of the people too? or, how about a game warden standing next to me in a blind EVERYTIME i go huntin?, or that i wear safety glasses evertime i use a drill? or,....my stupidity is MY choice. i have insurance and life insurance, so not to burden anyone....oh, how about WAR? is that a choice the PEOPLE make?.....What about that bit of stupidity that cost AMERICANS their lives and burdens society.... Actually If I am not mistaken but in maney states and provinces it is a criminal offense if you knowingly have a life threatning social disease and fail to A- wear a condom or B- fail to inform your partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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